newly rebuilt and a knock

[samsonized]

just finished installing my rebuilt motor and upon starting i have a knock. the motor was test run by the rebuilder and he said it was fine with no noise. i had to remove the distributor in order to install the ignition lock cable and when i went to take the distributor out it like "sprang" back into the block. i rotated the motor slightly with the crank and it came out.. i put the cable in and reinstalled it with the rotor facing the same place as when i removed it. i started the motor and i have a knock. the rebuilder says it was fine when it left his place and i must of done something like maybe the timing was off. i am confused because if i took the distributor out with the rotor facing a certain direction and reinstalled it in the same place how would the timing have changed. any suggestions i am super stressed and dont know what to do.

[J Franklin]

The timing won't change. What is knocking? Is the fan belt off?

[samsonized]

motor is complete and assembled

[samsonized]

also i had to push down on the distributor shaft in order to get the distributor to go all the way down into the head

[tinkirk]

Bingo
Should not have to push down on the distributor to get it in better be checking what you have going on down in that little hole


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[samsonized]

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i have been told that repro lower distributor shaft sometimes dont mate perfectly

[Flathead]

I had a problem with a new repo front crank pulley hitting the front engine mounting yoke. Sounded real bad The yoke left marks on the spokes of the pulley.

[samsonized]

that all appears to be clear

[chrs1961815]

Something doesn't sound right with your drive gear spring under the valve cover.

[samsonized]

not familiar with that part i think there is a spring that the oil pump floats on and the rebuilder says that the distributor was pulled down by that spring

[McMimmcs]

Take it back to the mechanic that rebuilt it!

[samsonized]

good idea but he is rather far and i dont want to have to take the motor out

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by samsonized

good idea but he is rather far and i dont want to have to take the motor out

No magic wand here. You need to get the engine back to the rebuilder so he can hear it. Just load the car on a trailer and zip on over to the rebuilder's shop. So what if you're out some time and money! That goes along with this hobby and is to be expected from time to time.
And remember, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by samsonized

i have been told that repro lower distributor shaft sometimes dont mate perfectly

True - I had to turn mine down on a lathe just a couple of thou to get it to mate well with the distributor.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Flathead

I had a problem with a new repo front crank pulley hitting the front engine mounting yoke. Sounded real bad The yoke left marks on the spokes of the pulley.

Yup, had that problem as well with a repro crank pulley.


JayJay

[old ugly]

i remember back about 50 years, when i said to my dad, i should have a mechanic work on this for me, my dad said to me, "you may as well fix it yourself because you will likely have to redo the work anyway.

i hate when someone gets told "it was fine when it left here" the answer should be "ill have a look at it for you". it would make me want to deliver it back through their front window.
sorry for the rant.

knocks are horrible things to diagnose.

stethoscope or a pc of hardwood to your ear to try to narrow down the area it is in.

sorry i cant help more.

[samsonized]

returning the motor to the builder before i check out other options would not be practical

[Bob C]

I'd be looking at the fit of the lower distributor shaft.

[samsonized]

how would that cause a knock. if the upper shaft was jumping out of the bottom shaft would there not be a misfire

[J Franklin]

Anything moving can knock. You can pinpoint a knock with a mecanic's stethoscope. Is the oil pump working?

[samsonized]

how would you know if the oil pump was working

[1crosscut]

As mentioned in post #16 use a mechanics stethoscope. long hardwood dowel or a long screwdriver pressed to various areas of the engine and to your ear to localize the location of the knock.
Resist the urge to open the engine up trying to find the knock as your "builder" may say that you have voided the warranty by doing so.

[samsonized]

i agree if i have to open the motor i will have to take it out of the car and ship it

[dennis lumbert]

Originally Posted by samsonized

how would you know if the oil pump was working

There is a small pipe plug on the rt side of the block about 1 inch above the pan gasket surface in line with the oil pump/distributor shaft center line.If you take that plug out and crank it over oil should squirt out that hole if the pump is working.May be best to take the spark plugs out and crank it over with the hand crank.That should really be done before a new engin
e is started anyway.

[samsonized]

thanks

[dennis lumbert]

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Your welcome

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by samsonized

returning the motor to the builder before i check out other options would not be practical

What is practical is contacting rebuilder, apprise him of problem and seek his advice!!

[dansluck]

I would re-time the engine if you had the distributor out. Do you have a high compression head with the engine to far advanced? Do not over tighten the distributor nut and screw on the side of the engine.

[PC/SR]

If you cannot take it back, take off the valve cover and see what is going on with the distributor drive. Know that will probably void any warranty. Guy will say it is your fault. but he is saying that anyway.

[dansluck]

If the sound is at the back of the engine check the three starter bolts.They could be too long.

[goodcar]

Suggest you state your location. Maybe someone close with more experience will respond to come and help you diagnose the problem.

[lrf]

I have a friend who rebuilt an engine, replaced the distributor/oil pump drive gear with an .004 oversized gear...it caused a knock! Also maybe the spring in the valve chamber is not in correctly. Best would be to take the motor back!

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by lrf

Best would be to take the motor back!

I think it would be best to decide what is causing the knock. You need not touch the timing, maybe just make sure of the timing. You already have the ability to retard the spark and eliminate timing knock.

Where are you located?

[Blue-Truck-Nut]

Listening to see which general area it's coming from from seems like sound advice.

One afternoon my car sounded like it was trying to throw a rod, or several. Could not pinpoint it with a stethoscope. Long story short the nut holding the cam gear had come loose.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[nkaminar]

I am in the same camp as Old Ugly. The rebuilder should take a more active interest.

Here is an idea: Make a video of the knock and send it to the rebuilder.

Since you pulled the distributor and replaced it and the knock happened afterward, then logic would say it is related to the distributor. If the screw that holds the distributor in the engine is too tight, it can bind the shaft and cause a knock. Look there first. You can pull the distributor back out and try turning the shaft with your fingers to see if it is binding. Look for witness marks on the shaft that might indicate where the problem is. If the distributor was hard to push in, there is something wrong with the shaft. If you have access to another distributor, you could try that, but you would have to time that distributor.

Of course there are a bunch of other possible sources of a knock, but the evidence points to the distributor.

[samsonized]

i do not know if it was knocking before i took the distributor out. the rebuilder said there was no knock when he ran it but i had to take the distributor out to put the ignition lock cable in and i did not try to start it previous to that

[aermotor]

As others have said, state your location. I had a problem that I was trying to solve on this forum and a fellow spoke up that wasn't too far away. He drove to my home and helped me fix the problem in a couple minutes. You have too much money in this engine to let the rebuilder off the hook. First check EVERYTHING that was done after the engine came out of the box from the rebuilder. That's where he will lay the blame.

John































John

[samsonized]

i am in the northwest chicago suburbs

[daren007]

Do not remove and ship the engine. Your rebuilder needs to hear the noise with everything as is. He can find a lot of excuses otherwise.

[Big hammer]

Load the car on a trailer and take it to the rebuilder! .

[JKY]

Originally Posted by McMimmcs

What is practical is contacting rebuilder, apprise him of problem and seek his advice!!

In the original post he said, "The rebuilder says it was fine when it left his place and i must of done something like maybe the timing was off."

Looks like he's already done that and the builder is telling him that the engine was fine when it left, making it the owner's problem.

[samsonized]

good idea it is a 2500 mile trip one way cheaper to just buy another motor

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by samsonized

good idea it is a 2500 mile trip one way cheaper to just buy another motor

Is the builder from a foreign country? I couldn’t find anyplace in the U.S. that is 2,500 miles from Chicago.

[samsonized]

not giving out the name until i find out if it was something that was done wrong.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Check your "Private Messages" in the top right corner of this web page.
Marshall

[eagle]

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If it was me... 1. call the rebuilder and talk it through, have him tell you what to do to troubleshoot etc. 2. People are busy, it may take some time for him to reconcentrate his efforts to helping you. 3. Document, Document, Document. Write down EXACTY what you did WITHOUT filtering it. Keep track of when you called the builder, what you said/he said. Also video is your friend, make a video showing engine oil, coolant in radiator, sound of engine etc. 4. Things happen, rather than try to figure out who's fault it is, try to partner up with the builder to resolve the issue.
I'm not finding fault with what you have done, your unwillingness to disclose the builder until you've worked through this says volumes about your integrity.

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by samsonized

not giving out the name until i find out if it was something that was done wrong.

I didn’t want the name, because I’m not looking for a builder. I just thought 2,500 miles from Chicago was unrealistic. Good luck with your engine.

[nkaminar]

Here is another idea: Post a video of the knock on the Barn. Others have done that and their knock was able to be analyzed.

[J Franklin]

I once had a bad knock and it turned out to be caused by the fan belt. An easy fix!

[john charlton]

The distributor drive shaft was stuck in the drive end and the top end . This should not be a tight fit at both ends it acts a universal joint so is a semi loose fit . Repro shafts sometimes have to be dressed for the fit to be correct just a connection not a rigid join . When you pulled the distributor up as the shaft was jammed at both ends you were compressing the spring which holds the oilpump/distributor drive gear down in place . It could be you lifted it up so far that when you pushed it back in you engaged the drive gear out by a tooth on the camshaft . This would affect the timing the engine will run but it would not be happy maybe causing the knock . An easy fix use the timing pin for TDC and reset the cam as per the good books . I would pull the shaft out with needle nose pliers and dress each end for the correct fit you should not need to press it in position . When you pull the distributor out the shaft stays in the block .

John in Suffolk County England .

[burner31]

I'm changing the front bearing on my generator, it was/is worn out and was causing some knocking.


Update: Well it wasn't that bearing...damn it

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by john charlton

The distributor drive shaft was stuck in the drive end and the top end . This should not be a tight fit at both ends it acts a universal joint so is a semi loose fit . Repro shafts sometimes have to be dressed for the fit to be correct just a connection not a rigid join . When you pulled the distributor up as the shaft was jammed at both ends you were compressing the spring which holds the oilpump/distributor drive gear down in place . It could be you lifted it up so far that when you pushed it back in you engaged the drive gear out by a tooth on the camshaft . This would affect the timing the engine will run but it would not be happy maybe causing the knock . An easy fix use the timing pin for TDC and reset the cam as per the good books . I would pull the shaft out with needle nose pliers and dress each end for the correct fit you should not need to press it in position . When you pull the distributor out the shaft stays in the block .

John in Suffolk County England .

Listen to what the man says! He is s true expert! Wayne

[Glenn Thoreson]

If you have to push down on the distributor it sounds like the spring that holds the dist./oil pump drive gear up has popped out of position. That spring kind of wants sits at a cockeyed angle anyway and is easily installed so it can kick out. Remove the valve (side) cover and see if it's out of position. Also check to make sure it was installed correctly. It goes on top of the drive gear. I would not run the engine until you check this and fix it. If the drive gear is pushed up the oil pump probably is not operating and that's not good at all.

[samsonized]

thank you all for your help the problem has been solved it was a timing knock. the lower distributor shaft was stuck in the cam gear coupler and also stuck into the bottom of the upper distributor shaft. got everything out of the motor clearanced the shaft so it was a slip fit put everything back together and now it is all set

[Johnnya101]

Glad you fixed it!

[nkaminar]

Did you have to re time the ignition?

[samsonized]

yes because i had moved it

[Dennis Pereira]

Good news nothing major .