Vibration removal tips and tricks. Have any?

[Art Newland]

I have my engine pulled to install my new Mitchell transmission, and while I'm at it I want to do what ever I can to reduce the vibration levels. The vibration really ruins the driving experience for me, so I want to do all I can while it's apart. I had Float-a-motor mounts before installing my new-to-me engine earlier this year. They were aluminum and one was cracked so I decided to install stock mounts and new rubbers. I've heard/read all the cons, and new FAMs are going back in. I have an idea for an insulated tail-pipe hanger that I will share if it works out OK. The trans is just about ready to come out and I'm anxious to see the condition of the u-joint.

[RawhideKid]

Hey Art, if you were pulling the engine to get at the trans, why didn't you pull them all together? Would have been a lot easier with only needing to open the clam shell to pull it.

I do hope you reassemble it all to reinstall it, putting the trans back on while out of the car is way easier than trying to align everything while in the car.

[Art Newland]

My plan is to install as an assembly. I probably should have pulled it assembled as well, I could have let the hoist do all the lifting!

[RawhideKid]

Yes, oh, and I think going back to the FAM is the best bet, just be sure to get the new cast iron style instead of the aluminum.

[J Franklin]

Make sure the flywheel and PP are balanced and aligned when assembling.

[SeaSlugs]

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is that the aluminum fan on there? if not that can be out of balance and vibrate as well...

How tight and whos rubber set did you use for the factory rear motor mounts? sposta put them in so you can just barely get the cotter thru.

[steve s]

Be sure not to tighten down too much on the FAM rubber bisquits, or on the front motor mount.

Be sure to use the correct shims in the two bolts that connect the throttle assembly and flywheel housing. The shim should be the thickness of the compressed gasket that's present at the other bolt holes.

Here's a picture of the muffler hanger that I crafted from a generic RUBBER hanger I got at an auto parts store.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by RawhideKid

Yes, oh, and I think going back to the FAM is the best bet, just be sure to get the new cast iron style instead of the aluminum.

Yes... the new FAMs are cast iron.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Make sure the flywheel and PP are balanced and aligned when assembling.

Aligned means what exactly?

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

is that the aluminum fan on there? if not that can be out of balance and vibrate as well...

How tight and whos rubber set did you use for the factory rear motor mounts? sposta put them in so you can just barely get the cotter thru.

Yes, newer aluminum fan blade.

New mount rubbers were from Bratton's, tightened just enough to get a cotter in. After removal, the rubbers all looked like they seated well, nothing smashed or mis-aligned.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by steve s

Be sure not to tighten down too much on the FAM rubber bisquits, or on the front motor mount.

Be sure to use the correct shims in the two bolts that connect the throttle assembly and flywheel housing. The shim should be the thickness of the compressed gasket that's present at the other bolt holes.

Here's a picture of the muffler hanger that I crafted from a generic RUBBER hanger I got at an auto parts store.

Thanks for the picture Steve.

I did dial indicate the flywheel housing when I installed then engine.

[Art Newland]

The tranny is out. The drive shaft seems snug in it's bearing. The u-joint looks to be in good condition. The large washer that is supposed to be on the u-joint retaining bolt is missing. Pictures show the u-joint and the new one that I purchased a while back as NOS. Obviously of a different configuration.

[J Franklin]

Flywheel aligned to the housing with a dial indicator. I think a search will bring up particulars on doing it. Also a newer fan does not necessarily mean it is balanced. Depending on what work you contemplate for the engine you may want to have the rods and pistons balanced at this time.

[Art Newland]

I realize that things could be done to the engine to help with vibration, and it may be that this engine has some issues that way. The engine starts and runs great. Pulls like a mule. It has ended up with a Brumfield HC head, compression in the low 90's, and I'm thinking that this might be adding to the vibs while pulling hard. I do plan a rebuild of the original engine, I don't mind spending the money, but with all the threads about rebuilds-gone-bad, it's very scary.

[Art Newland]

oops, I lied. That washer was in there under the gunk. The Mitchell tranny comes with a new one anyway.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Start with a counterweighted crankshaft, then balance the pistons, rods, fan, etc.

[Art Newland]

My intention is to do nothing with this engine. I plan to build a new engine in the future.

[GPierce]

This helped reduce my vibration a little.

[Gary WA]

why not use the original style clamp?

[1955cj5]

Just my experience but I replaced the distributor with a rebuilt unit and that helped it run smoother.

I finally tested my coil for the "hot blue spark" and what I got was an anemic pale yellow spark....replaced the coil and now the spark is hot and blue...this too made it run better...

FAM's front and rear and after much fiddling and adjusting they too helped.

Let us know if the flywheel/pressure plate balancing helps...I'm gonna do that if I ever have another reason to pull the engine...

I also replace the rear exhaust pipe mount with an insulated one...exhaust rattle is gone...

[PC/SR]

Steering and running gear tight? Wishbone ball secure? Front end aligned, toe in, good bearings? Body hold down bolts tightened?

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by Gary WA

why not use the original style clamp?

For the same reason no modern car has it's exhaust system bolted directly to the frame. It only makes sense that it will transmit noise and vibration from the engine to the rest of the car.

Before I installed this engine, I had FAMs and a insulated tail pipe hanger, put them back to stock and can't imagine why anyone would want it that way. Admittedly my car isn't "back to spec" 100% and maybe that has something to do with it.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

Just my experience but I replaced the distributor with a rebuilt unit and that helped it run smoother.

I finally tested my coil for the "hot blue spark" and what I got was an anemic pale yellow spark....replaced the coil and now the spark is hot and blue...this too made it run better...

FAM's front and rear and after much fiddling and adjusting they too helped.

Let us know if the flywheel/pressure plate balancing helps...I'm gonna do that if I ever have another reason to pull the engine...

I also replace the rear exhaust pipe mount with an insulated one...exhaust rattle is gone...

The engine is running great, just don't want the "magic fingers" treatment while I'm driving around.

I'm going to try "clocking" the flywheel and pressure-plate to see if I can make it manageable before taking them to a machine shop.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I'm NOT EVEN gonna' talk about quieting your car or FAMS or ANYTHING!!!
Every time I do, it ends in a HUBUB-------SO, THERE!!
Bill Shhhhh

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

The engine is running great, just don't want the "magic fingers" treatment while I'm driving around.

I'm going to try "clocking" the flywheel and pressure-plate to see if I can make it manageable before taking them to a machine shop.

It's pretty easy to add extra weight to one of the clutch bolts using an extra long bolt with an added nut under the head, just move it around and mark the flywheel and keep a record of better or worse results then add or subtract weight till it is smooth.

Some times it works better when you find the spot,,,, is to spread the weight out over several bolts. It takes a bit of time but it can be done.

I have perfectly balanced engines with a piston missing with this method,
and built 3 piece drive lines that are smooth as silk. The trick is that often the extra weight has to be spread out,,,not applied in one spot.

Use grade 8 bolts.

[J Franklin]

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Edelbrock balanced my flywheel and PP, no complaints at all!

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I'm NOT EVEN gonna' talk about quieting your car or FAMS or ANYTHING!!!
Every time I do, it ends in a HUBUB-------SO, THERE!!
Bill Shhhhh

Come-on Bill, tell me all your secrets. We could be one big happy FAM-ily.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

Come-on Bill, tell me all your secrets. We could be one big happy FAM-ily.

Art,
I've laboriously tiped my quieting details, in GREAT detail, MANY times & some still just want to ARGUE, so, BLEAAAU!!!---
If some don't want to read my stuff, just BLOCK my posts!!!--BLEAAAU!
Bill Tired

[Art Newland]

I did seem to make some headway by clocking the pressure-plate. 30 Tudor, I like your idea of the long bolt-extra nut for a counter-weight. Bill W., I have read the posts you've made about FAMs over the last year or so that I've been hanging around the Barn. Not quite sure while so many folks are dead-set against them, maybe they clash with their over-drives, alternators, or Weber down draft carbs.

[Art Newland]

I just spent an hour adding a weighted bolt to each position in the pressure plate eith no discernable improvement.

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

I just spent an hour adding a weighted bolt to each position in the pressure plate eith no discernable improvement.

When does it vibrate, fast ,, slow, how wide is the range of vibration?

You could be overweighting it so it is out everywhere that you place the weight.

Maybe an extra washer at one or two bolts at a time will show better results.

Does the rpm of the vibration change or does it remain constant?

[30 Tudor]

Something like a long piece of small steel tubing permanently positioned to lie on the greatest area of vibration will tell you if there is any change by listening to the rattling of it.
It is better than trying to just feel it or hear it. The vibration will change the rpm that it occurs at, it may feel as strong but the time that it occurs will move.
How much weight you add is critical, and weight in two places always work better for me than one.

This is a rather delicate operation and not as easy as it seems.

I have started by placing two straps opposite each other bolted to the crank pulley bolt.
They have bolts welded to them so weight can be added or subtracted easily. they are placed opposite each other in balance to start, then the slightest movement starts adding weigh as they are moved one at a time, like the hands on a clock,,, it soon becomes evident when something starts to happen. Then more weight is added or taken away and a pattern develops.
No it's not easy in fact it can be a real pain.

I'm not saying for you to put the straps on the front pulley,,, it's just for you to see the idea. I do that when some internal pieces are missing.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

I just spent an hour adding a weighted bolt to each position in the pressure plate eith no discernable improvement.

I read 30Tudors theory too,its sound..Hell I was interested till I realized its a 63 pound flywheel,it would take a bit more than a heavy bolt to alter that kinetic energy..given ford used such a heavy flywheel to dampen impulse runout is critical. Im going to rig a dial indicator on mine to check it,its a fairly common procedure on heavy duty diesel engines,you dont want that much mass 'wobbling'.

[30 Tudor]

If you figure the radius of 5.2 inches for the placement of the flywheel bolts,
at this radius,,,,
@ 1000 rpm
1 gram weighs .32 lb
6.6 grams weighs 2.14 lb (6.6 grams = 3/8 nut)
20 grams = 8.59 lbs

@ 2000 rpm
1 gram = 1.3 lbs
6.6 grams = 8.59
20 grams = 26 lbs

And the tiny little itty bitty insignificant 1/4" lock washer weighs in at 1.8 grams
1.8 grams @ 1000 rpm = .58 lbs
1.8 grams @ 2000 rpm = 2.34 lbs

The engine is probably not this far off balance,
probably should try small amounts of weight.

This isn't a theory, it can and has been done, it doesn't always take much.

The best way is when the engine is being built,, however the piston and rod assembly's were 20 grams apart when I got them back from the re builder so it doesn't always work out. I tossed them and started over!

[mike657894]

I think you have a greater problem. My car hasnt had any magic treatment. standard mounts standard ex clamp. and its not too shakey. light vibration if you put your hand on the fender. nothing that could be described as magic fingers.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by 30 Tudor

When does it vibrate, fast ,, slow, how wide is the range of vibration?

You could be overweighting it so it is out everywhere that you place the weight.

Maybe an extra washer at one or two bolts at a time will show better results.

Does the rpm of the vibration change or does it remain constant?

What I was noticing to begin with was a pretty pronounced vib at what I would call a "fast idle" position, like when first starting the car. Lots of vibration on de-acceleration. Lots of increasing vibs with engine speed. At 35 and 43 mph it ran pretty smooth. The way it is right now is a big improvement, I still have a vib at a much higher rpm, but it has a very narrow rpm range and as the engine accelerates the vibs are much less and stay pretty constant well up into what sounds like 2000 rpm.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by mike657894

I think you have a greater problem. My car hasnt had any magic treatment. standard mounts standard ex clamp. and its not too shakey. light vibration if you put your hand on the fender. nothing that could be described as magic fingers.

Well, I know I have a problem... that's why I'm trying all this stuff.

I've had the opportunity to drive a number of A's over the last year. They all have vibrated to some extent. After this engine install it's much worse than my old engine. I also switched to stock mounts from FAMs at the same time.

One thing for sure is that it doesn't take much of a chance to make a significant change in the vibration level.

[RawhideKid]

You know what you have to do Art, knuckle under and make it right, return to the FAMily.

[mike657894]

how are the vibrations when you rev the car while in nuetral?

[denniskliesen]

Art, do you have a way to measure weights. If and when I tear mine down I'm going to weigh everything small parts. I have a couple triple beams but they are too slow. About 7 years ago I bought a scale on ebay weighs up to 70 lbs. for shipping ebay sales. I'd never put anything on it that heavy but It would indicate a change with less than a quarter page of paper. I was impressed. And it was cheap.

[Art Newland]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGY2...ature=youtu.be

[denniskliesen]

I'm going to have to try that water in a jar for comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYLbX0uaDF8

[30 Tudor]

Depends on how much work you want to do,,,,,when you find the spot that helps, take the weight off of that and put weight on the bolts on either side of that, or the next two or even the next two, it seems that two spots for added mass gives a bit more control.
Two weights across from each other are counteracting each other in relation to the radius of just one weight, so the closer they are moved toward each other the heavier the weight becomes, also,, sometimes a bit of weight moved around on the heavy side combined with the weight in a couple of places on the light side can dial it in a bit better.
It's about like cheating while playing the lottery, you will win but it might take a while.
Once you go through the whole routine and get a feel for what is happening you will have to settle upon at what rpm you want the remainder of the vibration to end up at.(I am assuming that it won't completely disappear, as are 300 others!)
I hope the clutch disc is centered with a good pilot and it is balanced, as you can see it doesn’t take much to make a big difference.
It is a challenge and I do like a challenge, someone once told me it couldn’t be done,,,,their mistake.

[30 Tudor]

Nice video Art.


With the engine all exposed like that after I mastered the flywheel, I'd probably put two opposing straps on the front pulley bolt just to see what could be done,, they have to start out even and balanced then slightly move toward each other to add a touch of weight.

Why would I do that,,,, I'm nuts, just plain ol bloody nuts I tell ya, inquiring minds need to know!

[Art Newland]

I've flown radio control model planes since the 70s, and have balanced a lot of props and spinners. It seems to be a bit of voodoo really. A perfectly balanced prop and spinner may still vibrate because the engine its self doesn't have enough counterbalancing. Most of the time and out of balance prop/spinner combination may work better if you can find the magic spot that is clocked to offset the engine.
This engine is something I picked up and inspected/dis-assembled over the winter to fill the void while I looked over it's original engine that ran good, but was under-powered. I guess my question would be "will a balanced flywheel/pressure-plate help the situation if the engine its self is out of balance?". I'm wondering also if when back in the car, the added mass it's bolted to wouldn't absorb some of that energy vs my 25 pound engine stand?

[Art Newland]

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Originally Posted by denniskliesen

I'm going to have to try that water in a jar for comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYLbX0uaDF8

I would've liked to see him slowly take the engine speed up to cruise and back down again. All these engines seem to have places where they "resonate", and from what I've read, a four cylinder engine with all the crank throws in one plane is going to vibrate at certain rpms.

[Art Newland]

What I was trying to illustrate with the video, is where the most part of the vibration happens in the rpm range. My coil is only mounted with one bolt and that's what you hear clunking. As I take the rpms up I try to hold it at the point it rattles. Any variation of the throttle at that point now stops the rattle, so the band of rpm range to make it rattle is very tight now... wasn't the case before. Also, now as I raise the rpms up to a cruising range, the vibs are staying pretty much constant instead of continually increasing with rpm.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Art, I agree with your #46 post.
With #45, I say no. Every part inside the engine needs to be well balanced, and a counterweighted crankshaft needs to be added to get the vibrations to a minimum.

[katy]

I did seem to make some headway by clocking the pressure-plate.

Nor sure what you mean by clocking, methinks you mean balancing?

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by katy

Nor sure what you mean by clocking, methinks you mean balancing?

Clocking simply means (in this case) with the flywheel in a fixed position, taking the pressure-plate loose and rotating/indexing it to the next bolt then running the engine to see if it has helped any. Theory being that the pressure-plate isn't perfectly balanced and my offset some unbalance in the engine/flywheel. And yes... it is tedious.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Art, I agree with your #46 post.
With #45, I say no. Every part inside the engine needs to be well balanced, and a counterweighted crankshaft needs to be added to get the vibrations to a minimum.

That's my thoughts as well. I can find no local machine shop that will to do a balance for me, would need to be shipped out... I hate shipping big heavy stuff! It is such a big improvement that I will undoubtedly reinstall everything and give it a try. May not be perfect but hopefully enough improved that I can put up with it. On another note, while taking things apart, I noticed an accumulation of soot around the tail-pipe/muffler connection on my 9 month old Aries muffler... a closer inspection reveals a poor weld. sheese...

[Art Newland]

Maybe one/some of you, if you fire up your A in the next few days, you could slowly advance your throttle and take note to if/when you have the most vibration? The main problem is really not knowing what average/acceptable is.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by 30 Tudor

If you figure the radius of 5.2 inches for the placement of the flywheel bolts,
at this radius,,,,
@ 1000 rpm
1 gram weighs .32 lb
6.6 grams weighs 2.14 lb (6.6 grams = 3/8 nut)
20 grams = 8.59 lbs

@ 2000 rpm
1 gram = 1.3 lbs
6.6 grams = 8.59
20 grams = 26 lbs

And the tiny little itty bitty insignificant 1/4" lock washer weighs in at 1.8 grams
1.8 grams @ 1000 rpm = .58 lbs
1.8 grams @ 2000 rpm = 2.34 lbs

The engine is probably not this far off balance,
probably should try small amounts of weight.

This isn't a theory, it can and has been done, it doesn't always take much.

The best way is when the engine is being built,, however the piston and rod assembly's were 20 grams apart when I got them back from the re builder so it doesn't always work out. I tossed them and started over!

please don't misunderstand, I agree with you. But I do have one question about the equations above are they taking in the dampening effect of a 63 pound flywheel?

[Art Newland]

Interesting read on FAMs and Model A engine vibrations and why.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...37&postcount=2

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

please don't misunderstand, I agree with you. But I do have one question about the equations above are they taking in the dampening effect of a 63 pound flywheel?

The flywheel is not for rotational balance but for damping of the torque of the power thrusts. If it is removed the thrust would rattle the trans and rear end gears. A good example of this is on motorcycles, I've owned a bunch, and they all had a spot or two where the transmissions rattle like crazy where the engine thrusts coincide with the gearing, the flywheels are not heavy enough to prevent this, and the design of the crank to the gear box almost begs for it. I have a BMW right now and it is no exception, I know what it is but it still bugs me, it could be engineered out, but it's not cost effective.When you hear a big truck go a bit too slow and the rattling of the drive line and the trans chatter is caused by the power thrusts of the engine,,an engine spins erratically. On modern engines the computer can read a dead cylinder by the amount time the rpm slows down between cylinders firing. Now that sounds crazy to me, but true.

Henry was all about being cost effective, the model a crank is a tough piece of spaghetti, it twists and turns and springs between all the thrusts of the rods, that big weight is to transfer that erratic heartbeat into one smooth power source. It will not keep an engine from shaking, if the rotational forces are out of balance. It might mask them a little bit,,but

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

Interesting read on FAMs and Model A engine vibrations and why.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...37&postcount=2

That is a good article,,,

The dynamic rotational balance can be greatly improved on an external application, turbines are balanced this way.

The rest of it you're stuck with.

Right now I have two rebuilt rods the difference of which is 100 grams between the two lightest and the two heaviest, on the large end alone.
If these were placed as pairs on the same side of the crank, @ 2000 rpm it comes to 52 pounds,, that is at 2.1 inches from center-line.

You can never begin to guess what is inside an engine, or why it shakes, unless you check it all out,,all things are possible, and the only way to find out truthfully,the normal vibration patterns is to ask someone like Herm, or other reputable rebuilders what a balanced A engine should feel like.
Or someone specifically running those engines

I won;t put anything together unless it is perfect, or close to.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by 30 Tudor

The flywheel is not for rotational balance but for damping of the torque of the power thrusts. If it is removed the thrust would rattle the trans and rear end gears. A good example of this is on motorcycles, I've owned a bunch, and they all had a spot or two where the transmissions rattle like crazy where the engine thrusts coincide with the gearing, the flywheels are not heavy enough to prevent this, and the design of the crank to the gear box almost begs for it. I have a BMW right now and it is no exception, I know what it is but it still bugs me, it could be engineered out, but it's not cost effective.When you hear a big truck go a bit too slow and the rattling of the drive line and the trans chatter is caused by the power thrusts of the engine,,an engine spins erratically. On modern engines the computer can read a dead cylinder by the amount time the rpm slows down between cylinders firing. Now that sounds crazy to me, but true.

Henry was all about being cost effective, the model a crank is a tough piece of spaghetti, it twists and turns and springs between all the thrusts of the rods, that big weight is to transfer that erratic heartbeat into one smooth power source. It will not keep an engine from shaking, if the rotational forces are out of balance. It might mask them a little bit,,but

\

As you are saying,rotational balance is a factor along with dampening.I balance piston and rod assemblies to .05g on other engines,the effect of balancing on overall performance is astounding,not only does it lessen vibration they shift easier and there is less overall wear on the entire drivetrain.My question is on your offset weight effect..not arguing that offset weight can be assigned a value,my question is does the flywheel dampen the effect of the added weight.In your example about the rods,your calculations come to 52 pounds..does the dampening effect of the flywheel 'absorb' some of the offset?is their a factor of flywheel weight in determining overall effect on balance?

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

\

As you are saying,rotational balance is a factor along with dampening.I balance piston and rod assemblies to .05g on other engines,the effect of balancing on overall performance is astounding,not only does it lessen vibration they shift easier and there is less overall wear on the entire drivetrain.My question is on your offset weight effect..not arguing that offset weight can be assigned a value,my question is does the flywheel dampen the effect of the added weight.In your example about the rods,your calculations come to 52 pounds..does the dampening effect of the flywheel 'absorb' some of the offset?is their a factor of flywheel weight in determining overall effect on balance?

I am not qualified to answer your questions in any scholastically educated way, only from the stance of actually doing it, of knowing how to go about getting it done to an acceptable functional level.

It would stand to reason that there would be a greater change to the center of a rotational mass if 52 lbs were added to a 10 lb flywheel vs. a 65 lb flywheel.

You are calling the extra weight on the flywheel an offset of weight,,,
it appears to be a confusing way to think about.
Because there is rotational vibration,,, then there is already an offset of weight so to speak to the central line of rotation. The bearings force the rotating mass into one plane or rotation and hold it there while the mass itself wants to rotate on another center line. It is the rotating piece trying to straighten itself in to a balanced center of rotation that is felt.
All of the weight out of line with the forced center of rotation then becomes like a rock spun around by a rope, the faster you spin it the further it will fly when you let go as the g forces increase.
When weight is added to the rotating mass to counter act the force of the rock pulling on the center line, it is now being held to the center line by the opposing weight,,called the counterweight. Theoretically it is now held into a balanced orbit and will go nowhere but around the center of rotation.
The idea of adding weight to the flywheel to alter the center line of rotation works to put the rotating mass back on the correct center line, even if the out of balance is a rod, or even a missing rod. The added weight is not then an offset of weight out there slinging around, it is pulling the entire mass closer to the proper center line of rotation.
Other forces are created, but it has to do with torque or leverage along the center line, but not actual out of balance in the plane of rotation.

If you were in the space station with a perfectly balanced model a flywheel
and crankshaft, and you spun it, it would spin perfectly on the axis of the bearings. If any weight is added it will find a new center line of rotating mass.

The confusion comes in because the counterweight does not have to be directly opposite the area of increased mass to center the rotation.
Many engines have been built with out of balance harmonic balancers,
or out of balance weighted flywheels to counter balance some other out of balance at another point along the rotating mass, the extra tension helps to curb other harmonic vibrations or something like that,,, heck I don't know, I just do it, I never think about it.

That can pose a real problem, or at least a perceived problem when balancing 2 or 3 piece drive lines, built on the ground with no lathe. Then balanced, and I don't mean on a lathe, I mean on the vehicle,, wheels removed and running it up and doing it by hand.
weight added anywhere along the entire mass will affect the entire mass, even with all the u-joints and carriers involved,,, and as such it can be difficult to ascertain exactly where the out of balance is truly at as to get it at that point directly,,,moment of inertia is some strange stuff and I don't get it at all.

But I do play a pretty mean fiddle on certain days.

[katy]

Art, thanks for the explanation on clocking.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by katy

Art, thanks for the explanation on clocking.

Sure, just some of the things us shade-tree mechanics do.

I've read a thread or two about guys that have spent big money on engine rebuilds only to have a lot more vibration than they used to. I've never gotten a response from folk that have high compression heads and how that effects vibration. It would seem to me that when there is a bigger bang in the combustion chamber that there is bound to be more power impulses transmitted to the car. In the article I referenced earlier in this thread he mentioned Ford needing to redesign the motor mounts for 1932 because of the added horse-power of the Model B engine.

[denniskliesen]

I have a 6:1 head in mine and have gotten comments on how smooth it is. I think it could be better but I haven't been around Model A's to know that well. Wish I had known then what I know now however. At least checked the rods and piston weights when I did an inframe overhaul.

[Art Newland]

Engine is back in the car. Just a few more hours and she'll be drivable again. New Mitchell syncro ready to try out too. My old transmission has some pretty worn bearings. I bet I can klunk the input shaft up and down a 1/4 inch. I wonder how that plays in to the whole vibration story. I hand packed the clamshell with cornhead grease, it took an entire cartridge to fill it. I had cornhead grease in it, it looks to have done a good job of lubricating things and didn't leak out.

[37Benny]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

Engine is back in the car. Just a few more hours and she'll be drivable again. New Mitchell syncro ready to try out too. My old transmission has some pretty worn bearings. I bet I can klunk the input shaft up and down a 1/4 inch. I wonder how that plays in to the whole vibration story. I hand packed the clamshell with cornhead grease, it took an entire cartridge to fill it. I had cornhead grease in it, it looks to have done a good job of lubricating things and didn't leak out.

11 days till the A-secent...I think you're making good time

[Art Newland]

Back on the road again! And I'm happy with the results so far. Vibrations are much less.
The Mitchell syncro is interesting, I bought the 15% over 1st and 2nd version and it seems well suited to the car.

[RawhideKid]

Art, I can't see from that pic, are you part of the FAMily again?

[Dick Steinkamp]

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Congrats, Art!

[Synchro909]

Fitting one of those Mitchell synchro gearboxes is about the best single thing I have done to a Model A. They cost a few $ but heck, I can't take any of those with me.

[Art Newland]

The syncros sure make getting up to speed a lot easier. The higher ratio 1st and 2nd is really nice, the jump from 2nd to 3rd isn't such a giant leap. FAMs are installed and these are much nicer units than the old aluminum ones that were on it. Haven't played with the tension on the rubber doughnuts yet, might get it even better yet. For sure installing the engine is easier with the FAMs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzsXr71L880

[Art Newland]

Been putting a few miles on the car before I button it back up. A little video demonstrating the drive-ability of the Mitchell transmission.

https://vimeo.com/228175799

[Big hammer]

Art Thanks for posting! Enjoy! You are :-)

[Art Newland]

Made up my tail-pipe mount today. I took a cheap fits-all tail-pipe hanger from O'rielly's and removed the clamp part. I turned a stock tail-pipe clamp sideways and bolted it to the rubber insulator of the hanger.

[Art Newland]

So far what's working best for me is both side mounts tightened equally, just tight enough to keep the top disk from being able to be turned by hand. I had read a post by Bill W. that loosening the front mount could help reduce some vibration, so I replaced the stock nut/cotter with a ny-lock nut for better adjust-ability. This made a considerable improvement! It is now tightened just enough to not be able to turn the spring with my fingers.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

Made up my tail-pipe mount today. I took a cheap fits-all tail-pipe hanger from O'rielly's and removed the clamp part. I turned a stock tail-pipe clamp sideways and bolted it to the rubber insulator of the hanger.

Having used those exact hangers on modern cars, you will be fixing it in less than a year. Bring a spool of bailing wire with you when it falls off!

2 of 2 things will happen: the rivets will pull out of the old rubber tire piece as it will deteriorate fast, but before that happens the pipe strap will break.

Dont mean to sound all negative nancy but those hangers are OK for a bandaid road side fix but you will be constantly messing with it soon. just a warning from multiple experiences haha.

[Art Newland]

I'll be sure to keep an eye on it. This is the same hanger I was using before, just in a different configuration. Had about 2500 miles of use on it. Didn't really notice any deterioration at this time. Worse case scenario is removing a couple bolts and putting the clamp back in it's stock location.