Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

[Bustingear]

Need some help with the initial start on my 8BA .Trying to get it running after a refurbish. Running two 94's
1. Spark is present -checked it with a screwdriver on #1 plug and its showing on its correct turn around.
2. There is fuel pressure through the mechanical pump and the 94's are squirting ok. I had trouble getting the plugs wet however. Poured gas down the carbs, sprayed ether down the carbs, put some gas directly in the chambers through the spark plug holes with a syringe. and still having trouble getting them wet.
3.Spun it around several times and not even getting a chug. Starter and battery are new and strong.
4. Initially found TDC by lining up the dot with the pointer , used a bump starter to make sure i was on the compression stroke and air pushed out . Put the rotor to Number one.

Started to question if i have the right distributor and took some pictures. Even though getting spark looks like its not seated (see picture) The tag on dizzy has been cleaned away but the #620 is there. I also wonder of the offy heads are machined correctly to seat the distributor (see picture)
also wonder if the have the timing gear /crank and cam positioned correctly for timing from initial assembly. Its been along time since build. Can that even be screwed up? Would really appreciate some advice from folks who have or are currently good with the 8BA motor.

[tubman]

First, I would suggest that you take that silly dual carb wannabe off and put a single carb on the manifold. Second, pull the distributor and take a look at the bottom of the shaft. There may be an incompatibility between the distributor and the front cover. Some distributors have an extended shaft below the gear. If you have a front cover that doesn't have the provision for the extended shaft, you'll have trouble. Has this combination (heads, distributor, front cover) ever run together before?

(I'd much rather discuss stuff like this than my age.)

[Bustingear]

the distributor was with the motor when i bought it not running. Any pictures of the cover and dizzy you are talking about?

[tubman]

Pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor goes around smoothly.

Maybe this will help :

[51 MERC-CT]

Perhaps to help clarify timing cover compatibility with distributor type.

Distributor type A is generally meant to fit cover type A.

[Bustingear]

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Ok the Distributor is the one without the extension. I will attempt to id the cover today and will perform some inspections and report back

[Bustingear]

Question? I do understand that the crank and cam gears need to line up with the markings once both are installed but when you put the timing gear on the cam what insures that is in the correct orientation for the lobes?

[corvette8n]

A little Starting fluid down the carb should fire if it has spark. Do you have a timing light or spark tester to make sure you have a good healthy spark.
My Dad was always telling me you needed 3 things for a motor to run, spark, fuel and compression.

[Bustingear]

starting fluid has been used to no avail. Used screw driver on plug and it shows spark appears good and strong

[Bustingear]

Question? I do understand that the crank and cam gears need to line up with the markings once both are installed but when you put the timing gear on the cam what insures that is in the correct orientation for the lobes?

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

Question? I do understand that the crank and cam gears need to line up with the markings once both are installed but when you put the timing gear on the cam what insures that is in the correct orientation for the lobes?

With the tooth alignment dot facing out the bolt hole pattern only allows it to go on one way.

[chap52]

Here is what happen to me... Had the same set-up, including the dual 94's. Even had a new "Bubba's" Distributor. I assembled the engine myself and yet some knucklehead had installed the distributor 180 degrees out of time. Can you believe that someone would sneak in my garage and do that?
Well I corrected the mischievous act and it fired right up.
I liked the dual carb set-up just because of the old school look. If you are having problems getting it up and running cut off fuel to the second carb and get it going. Use a Uni-sync tool to set those carbs. Worth the investment.
I believe (been a long time ago) that the cam gear will only go on cam one way, just align the dots and tighten it up.
Keep your shop locked at night so "that guy" won't mess with you project like he did with mine... Enjoy the adventure... Chap

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by tubman

First, I would suggest that you take that silly dual carb wannabe off and put a single carb on the manifold.

Have to agree with this.
It doesn't make any more sense than this 4 carb set up.

[Bustingear]

51 merc....Bingo and thanks stay with me bud. I hear you guys on the carb set up. I just want to get it started initially and then worry about proper induction. I am not even getting a sputter right now.

[Bustingear]

Chap52....I like it . Going out to war in the garage today

[Bustingear]

Another question....Do all 8BA 49-53 have adjustable lifters? I do not believe this one did but it has been 3 years since apart and the first one i have ever had apart . Done several chevies without issue but this is perplexing me.

Also 51Merc regarding timing are you saying that once the crank and cam marks are aligned all that is further required is to set the Distributor at TDC?

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

Another question....Do all 8BA 49-53 have adjustable lifters? I do not believe this one did but it has been 3 years since apart and the first one i have ever had apart . Done several chevies without issue but this is perplexing me.

Also 51Merc regarding timing are you saying that once the crank and cam marks are aligned all that is further required is to set the Distributor at TDC?

Adjustable lifters are not stock but are used when rebuilding to eliminate the

need to grind valve ends to achieve clearance as the factory did.


Distributor at TDC with rotor #1 positioned appox. at 6 o'clock.

[Bustingear]

Just took another shot at it.
1. Inspected distributor and it is the one with the extend portion after the gear and looked down in the timing housing and it has the proper guide for that Distributor
2. Pulled #1 and #2 used a bump switch to find TDC where the air pushed my finger and pointer and dot lined up.
3. Dropped Dist. in the hole with rotor pointing to #1. made sure that rotor was turning in a clockwise direction. Checked spark on 1 and 2 both good.
4. Carbs are squirting ok and while 1 and 2 were out fuel was spitting from #2 during the timing rotation.
5. re checked the wire order on Dist. and all was the same and good.

I am not even getting a chug or sputter . It just keeps spinning around without any sign of an explosion. Suggestions?

[Bustingear]

51 Merc I am set up with #1 at the top and not the bottom . The wires follow the proper order but as you know it is the same

[Jake dalka]

You can feel air push out the spark plug hole even when the piston is on the exhaust stroke.
Just a guess but I believe you’re 180 degrees out....

[marko39]

Can you hook your timing light on #1 and turn Dist. Until you see a spark. This should tell you it's timing is good or 180 off.

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by marko39

Can you hook your timing light on #1 and turn Dist. Until you see a spark. This should tell you it's timing is good or 180 off.

no timing light old school ear, i will try this with a screwdriver and the bump switch

[Bustingear]

ok just bumped it until i saw spark ...pulled the cap and its on #1. Also eyeballed the pulley dot when the finger pushed off and it was 2" before the pointer and the rotor is at the plug before #1 (not sure that even matters)?

[Bustingear]

anyone else before i tear in to the engine? I hope i screwed up the timing marks cause thats where i am headed first and then on to valve adjustment

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

51 Merc I am set up with #1 at the top and not the bottom . The wires follow the proper order but as you know it is the same

I don’t understand how it can be the same? 1-4 passenger side, 5-8 drivers side..... Mark

[mrlaser]

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Another thing to consider, in addition to those ideas already mentioned, is the primary resistance in the coil. This is assuming that you have retained the original 6 volt system. The coils sold by most suppliers are incorrect for this application having a primary resistance of 3.5-4.0 ohms instead of the correct 1.5 ohms. I had a very similar experience when attempting to start my completely rebuilt 8ba v8. The spark was present, but weaker than necessary for ignition. After changing to an Echlin IC-7 coil, which has the 1.5 ohm primary resistance, the engine fired on the first turn of the key. Just a thought.

[51 MERC-CT]

[QUOTE=Bustingear;1988870]Just took another shot at it.
1. Inspected distributor and it is the one with the extend portion after the gear and looked down in the timing housing and it has the proper guide for that Distributor
/QUOTE]
Then it appears that you are using a stock distributor.
If that is so, what are you using for the vacuum source?

The stock set up uses a carburetor port for proper timing.

[Jake dalka]

Piston can be at the top and be on the completion of the exhaust stroke.....
Two revolutions of the crank to complete the four strokes....
Intake....compression One revolution
Power.....exhaust Second revolution
Timing mark and pointer line up twice in a full cycle

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by flatford8

I don’t understand how it can be the same? 1-4 passenger side, 5-8 drivers side..... Mark

The firing order is the same it just moves on the clock and as long as the rotor is at number one TDC could be anywhere on the clock. perplexes some folks.

[Bustingear]

[QUOTE=51 MERC-CT;1988949]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

Just took another shot at it.
1. Inspected distributor and it is the one with the extend portion after the gear and looked down in the timing housing and it has the proper guide for that Distributor
/QUOTE]
Then it appears that you are using a stock distributor.
If that is so, what are you using for the vacuum source?

The stock set up uses a carburetor port for proper timing.

One of the carbs has the vac port . I dont have it hooked up yet and read where it can be disengaged to set initial timing. Its just not even getting to the sputter point yet that i thought i needed to worry about it?

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by Jake dalka

Piston can be at the top and be on the completion of the exhaust stroke.....
Two revolutions of the crank to complete the four strokes....
Intake....compression One revolution
Power.....exhaust Second revolution
Timing mark and pointer line up twice in a full cycle

Of course but always needs to be said

[JSeery]

Before you start taking things apart, need to check what you are doing. A compression gauge will give you a good indication if the valve clearance is anywhere near correct. If there is a spark and fuel an engine will fire, so something is way off here. You have verified you are using the #1 cylinder on the passenger side as number one? The cylinder numbering for the firing order is 1-4 on passenger side and 5-8 on the driver side. It is correct you can insert the distributor in any position you want if you move the wires in the cap around to match, but why complicate things? If you are using a stock distributor it is not going to work with the carburation you have.

[tubman]

I strongly suggest getting the distributor position and plug wires back to factory spec. I know you can get it running with them in just about any position, but if you are going to ask others for help, having them set up correctly helps everyone greatly.

Sometimes it can even make tuning impossible. I had a 327 Corvette that I could not get the advance set where I wanted it because the vacuum can hit the intake manifold, preventing it from being moved enough. I found the distributor was one tooth off and the wires had all been moved one position from where they were supposed to be. The car ran and drove OK, but was, quite frankly, a slug.

Resetting the distributor and positioning the wires properly allowed the advance to be set correctly, which woke the car up tremendously.

[Bustingear]

Tore into the timing cover.......lined up tdc and made sure pointer was close to pulley dot then pulled the timing cover off then saw that the slash in the cam timing gear and the dot in the crank gear were aligned. The pointer/dot and the slash/dot are both a little after which means they are aligned so strike that one off.

Really looks like things point towards valve adjustment? I mean does that vacum advance need to be hooked up to even get a sputter out of the engine??

[Als48]

I agree with Tubman, I think your ignition timing is way off. Especially if your timing by eye appears to be 2" advanced. That is way too far off for the engine to start. Get a timing light and find out where you are, timing wise.

Al Hook

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Before you start taking things apart, need to check what you are doing. A compression gauge will give you a good indication if the valve clearance is anywhere near correct. If there is a spark and fuel an engine will fire, so something is way off here. You have verified you are using the #1 cylinder on the passenger side as number one? The cylinder numbering for the firing order is 1-4 on passenger side and 5-8 on the driver side. It is correct you can insert the distributor in any position you want if you move the wires in the cap around to match, but why complicate things? If you are using a stock distributor it is not going to work with the carburation you have.

regarding the carburetion ... Thought i should be able to at least get a sputter even without the carb/dist vacum hooked up in fact i thought you were supposed to disconnect it to set initial timing?? I mean i am not even getting a pop despite ether spray

[1931 flamingo]

I believe #1 cyl is different on a flathead than on a SBC.
Paul in CT

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

regarding the carburetion ... Thought i should be able to at least get a sputter even without the carb/dist vacum hooked up in fact i thought you were supposed to disconnect it to set initial timing?? I mean i am not even getting a pop despite ether spray

Compression test will tell you about all you need to know about valve adjustment. If you don't have a gauge think you can borrow one from most auto parts places.

[Bustingear]

Car has been converted to Pertronix with the new proper coil . New wiring harness and entire car is now 12V
Going with compression test today and going to try and find tdc as if the timing gear had no slash or dot. also going to check and see if dist module eye is aligned properly as well.

Also wanted to mention that rings were replaced and are new. Cylinders were not bored but honed.
Guides and seals were replaced. valves reseated with compound by hand, cam and lifters were not replaced. Everything dropped back in original holes and positions. Did not check valve seats as they are not the adjustable type and really nothing changed. That was an assumption on my part i guess

[Bustingear]

Compression test results , done cold cause i cant get it started. Throttle open ,all plugs out
First group are dry. 2nd after oil squirt
DRY: 1-89,2-70,3-80,4-80,5-75,6-75,7-90,8-80
Oil squirt: 1-92.2-92,3-95,4-92,5-95,6-91,7-95,8-95
Rings were replaced, cylinders honed, valve guides and seals replaced , lifters and cam were not. Thoughts?

[tubman]

If it has never been run since the rings were installed, the rings have probably not seated and those numbers may not be as bad as they seem. They should be sufficient to start the engine though.

[JSeery]

The compression numbers don't look that bad for unseated rings, so that should rule out any valve issues. So about has to be an ignition problem. Can you post a couple of photos of the distributor in place that shows the wiring harness and how it is routed to the plugs?

[flatjack9]

Those numbers are more typical of a worn engine. As noted there is enough compression to start it. Problem would seem to be improper timing.

[JSeery]

Also, when you check the spark at the plug, is it a bright blue spark?

[tubman]

If you are serious in trying to get this started, I suggest removing the dual carb thingy, bolting your best carburetor directly to the manifold and replacing the spark plugs with new ones (the existing plugs are probably very compromised from the previous attempts at priming the engine in various ways). Make sure you still have spark and gas to the carb. Give it one more try before tearing it down.

If it still doesn't start, you might try turning the distributor 180 degrees and resetting the timing.

[40cpe]

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My thoughts? It should fire on your compression. The oil increases compression because the rings aren't seated.

[backrodebob]

If that’s the case, wad a piece of paper towel stuff in plug hole bump engine when it pops out your on compression stroke

[Ronnie]

Is yours like this? If so the cam is in correct R

[dono50]

If you’re using repro condenser and points they are junk. I had problems on initial start up because of weak spark. Bought NORS condenser and point and it started right up.

[Bustingear]

Appreciate all the help! Spark is BLUE
New 12V harness installed for complete car
Power Master starter and Power Master generator
Which is an really an Alternator
These are the best $600 with tax between the two
12 volt system and new battery that I charge between intervals
Starter is strong and fast
I am going to convert to adjustable lifters and a new intake
Between the two I think I will have exhausted the issues
Yesterday Sprayed ether and poured fuel down the hatch again today and still the plugs did not smell strong of gas or ether as they should nor did they appear wet . I think that hokey carb set up is bogus and maybe my 94 rebuilds suck although they are squirting???
It’s almost like there is a blockage which is why I am going after the induction set up

[jimvette59]

I think the cam gear dot is three teeth to the left.

[51 MERC-CT]

Just a suggestion, before I did anything else, I would remove the phony dual intake (as previously suggested).
Mount a single carb and try it that way.

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

I think the cam gear dot is three teeth to the left.

If you look back at the thread you will see crank dot and cam slash line up while pulley dot and pointer line up and rotor is setting at number one plug wire. We have established that.

[Bustingear]

51merc and Tubman good test suggestion on single carb and will try before getting rid of more eagles$$$$$

[Bustingear]

question regarding distributor vacuum advance. currently one of the 94 carbs has the vacuum port built in. If i switch to a different 94 without can i run the vacuum advance line to an aluminum spacer between the 94 and the manifold? Will it work there?

[19Fordy]

Is the distributer gear on the cam correctly installed and is it tight
so as not to rotate when it meshes with the distributor gear?

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

question regarding distributor vacuum advance. currently one of the 94 carbs has the vacuum port built in. If i switch to a different 94 without can i run the vacuum advance line to an aluminum spacer between the 94 and the manifold? Will it work there?

No, the stock distributor requires ported carb. vacuum to operate correctly, not manifold vacuum.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

question regarding distributor vacuum advance. currently one of the 94 carbs has the vacuum port built in. If i switch to a different 94 without can i run the vacuum advance line to an aluminum spacer between the 94 and the manifold? Will it work there?

No, that distributor requires a specific carburetor to work. It needs a mixed signal from both above and below the throttle plate.

[Ken Henry]

It should do something with starting fluid and the compression readings you are getting. I'm unsure if adjustable lifters will accomplish anything at this point. Do you have another stock distributor that you can swap in? Maybe the Petronix is flaking out...

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

It should do something with starting fluid and the compression readings you are getting. I'm unsure if adjustable lifters will accomplish anything at this point. Do you have another stock distributor that you can swap in? Maybe the Petronix is flaking out...

checked it at the spark plug tip while in rotation

[Bustingear]

Aright you ready for some wild shit diagnosis ? Took off both carbs and locked down the the single best one that had the advance port. Sprayed ether, pumped gas in and poured a little. ....Nothing and sounded slower that usual.
Decided to pull all plugs and do an inspection all plugs looked dry again . Cycled the engine with plugs out and fluid flew out of 1 and 5 . I mean ALOT ... like A GYSER a pool had been sitting there in 1 and 5 . did it about three times before it stopped. Did catch on fire in the front two plug holes on both sides i assume from vapor and spark inside the wires that were left open lying about Anyway after that was clear the engine sped up dramatically. I finally was able to look down the plug holes after i flushed my face with water, yes i got a facefull. and did notice that all the valves are moving up and down as they should. So i have lake headers which are very close to the frame and to compensate i added two 1/2 inch nuts to the trans mount to get clearance so the headers did not lay on the frame rails. Did this quite a while back and to boot i had the ass end of the car 2 or 3 inches off the ground. I run big and little so it takes even a bit more to get them up. My theory is that because of an engine that is at an angle not conducive for level fuel flow all the gas and ether had run to the front drowning #1 and #5 and not allowing any fuel to the other 6 holes in the back. Even though though 1 and 5 looked dry.???While this was going on it hydrolocked (not totally) the engine slowing it down. What do you think? Based on this i will attempt to get engine back to proper degree angle. ???? Sound like a decent theory?
Such is hot rodding! .

[tubman]

Plugs can look good and still be bad, especially after things like yours have been through. Just ask any old time snowmobiler. Let the engine sit a couple of days with no plugs in it and then install a new set. With all of that gas etc. in the cylinders, an oil change is probably in order as well.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

My theory is that because of an engine that is at an angle not conducive for level fuel flow all the gas and ether had run to the front drowning #1 and #5 and not allowing any fuel to the other 6 holes in the back. Even though though 1 and 5 looked dry.???While this was going on it hydrolocked (not totally) the engine slowing it down. What do you think? Based on this i will attempt to get engine back to proper degree angle. ???? Sound like a decent theory?
Such is hot rodding! .

Normal engine level is appox. 4 degrees. With the same angle built into most intakes to bring the carb.to level.
With the exit point at the fuel tank so far below the entry point at the carb. it is hard to visualize any fuel flowing into the engine.

I suspect that any raw fuel in the manifold and combustion chambers is just from all the previous attempts to start.

[demingboy]

Well I know one thing. This is an interesting thread for sure. Just curious did you ever change dist 180?

[deuce_roadster]

I agree with post 51. Cam and crank are not in synch. Picture by OP not good enough to tell if it is correct and I don't think it is.

[Ol' Ron]

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The stock distributor won't work with dual carns, but it should work. Back in the 50's I drove half way across the country with dual carbs on a 50 merc engine. Over heated all the way, Stopped at a garage in Indiana and the mechanic told me this. Fortunately I had the original intake and carb in the trunk . we installed ot amd I drove the rest of the way to Wisconsin with more power and better milage and the engine never got hot again..
Learn sumpin every day.
Gramps.

[rick r]

A real long shot. Check your intake manifold to make sure that the wall between the heat riser port and the adjacent intake ports is not burnt through.

[Bustingear]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I agree with post 51. Cam and crank are not in synch. Picture by OP not good enough to tell if it is correct and I don't think it is.

I dont understand how it could be out of time when you take the timing cover off and make sure the cam gear slash and the crank gear dot meet at 6 and 12 oclock. Put the timing cover back on and the needle and the pully Dot meet dead on as well as well. Then you pull the cap and the rotor is pointing directly at the #1 plug wire and then you check the order of the wires 5 times and they are correct to the firing order on the cap and meet the correct plug holes. And then you pull a #1 plug and rotate the engine till you see spark on the plug end and stop immediately and pull the cap again and the rotor is on #1 plug wire again. I ask then how could it be out of time? What then am i missing?

[JSeery]

On the fuel issue, just to be sure you understand, gas will not ignite in it's liquid state. It has to be vaporized to a specific ratio with air to ignite. It is very easy to "flood" a carbureted engine.

[demingboy]

Ok please dont get mad at me as I dont know much. the guy who posted in post number 48 shows his two gears and the markings of each. I am stuck away from my car so I do alot of reading.
Somewhere a guy had put his cam gear on backwards, could not believe it might be but he took it off and turned it around to find correct marking.

[deuce_roadster]

I don't know about putting the cam gear on backwards but the crank gear could certainly be slid on wrong. I have never seen a "slash" on a crank gear the 2 dots on the gears in the picture on post 48 should be prominent and I don't see that on the OP's picture.
If I was betting on anything I would guess one or both of those gears is either marked wrong or on backwards. I hope we eventually find the answer.

[AnthonyG]

JMO & not trying to criticize, just trying to be helpful as I’ve been here my self ( I’m a bit stubborn). Bustingear seems to seek agreement with his opinions of what the problem is more than he wants to accept help. Bustingear if you haven’t you need to try several of the suggestions given. Get a timing lite & verify spark from position 1 on distributor matches cyl #1 as post 21 suggests. Get / Borrow a multimeter & verify resistance & voltage entering ur coil is correct as suggested in Post 26. Pull your cam & crank gear off & verify the prevalent dots / gear markings are facing out as suggested in post #71 & others. JSeery suggests among other things to go with new plugs to be sure. I’d suggest as your heads look to be Offy heads that the plugs are entering your cyl at right depth as it is an issue with Offy heads ie too deep or too shallow. Step back & verify your on right side of each suggestion. As said with compression, correct spark, & fuel delivery there should be ignition or signs of life. With out any combustion at all I lean with the others timing is mechanically off.

[51 MERC-CT]

As to the thinking that the cam gear could be on backwards.
The gear has a counter-bore on the back side that fits the dia of the cam flange to center it.
The counter-bore is also smaller than the outer one and does not allow the heads of the mounting bolts to be turned.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I don't know about putting the cam gear on backwards but the crank gear could certainly be slid on wrong. I have never seen a "slash" on a crank gear the 2 dots on the gears in the picture on post 48 should be prominent and I don't see that on the OP's picture.
If I was betting on anything I would guess one or both of those gears is either marked wrong or on backwards. I hope we eventually find the answer.

The "slash" is not uncommon on the cam gear.

[69a]

Originally Posted by Bustingear

I dont understand how it could be out of time when you take the timing cover off and make sure the cam gear slash and the crank gear dot meet at 6 and 12 oclock. Put the timing cover back on and the needle and the pully Dot meet dead on as well as well. Then you pull the cap and the rotor is pointing directly at the #1 plug wire and then you check the order of the wires 5 times and they are correct to the firing order on the cap and meet the correct plug holes. And then you pull a #1 plug and rotate the engine till you see spark on the plug end and stop immediately and pull the cap again and the rotor is on #1 plug wire again. I ask then how could it be out of time? What then am i missing?

It is obvious the rotor is pointing to #1 When it sparks!!! It Doesn't prove anything?????
Keep it simple. One step at a time. You are over thinking it when you don't have the first step sorted.
STEP 1; Buy a timing light!
Number 1 is the front plug on the passenger side!
Crank it over on the starter and check the position of the timing mark on the pulley

[69a]

Check your own post #23.
Your ignition timing is out!

[Don T]

If you enlarge busingears cam/crank picture you can see that the marks line up.

[demingboy]

Hey did you get this started?

[Ronnie]

It appears the horse has left the barn.


R

[JSeery]

March 5th was the last time he logged in.

[69a]

Did you sort out your timing?

[Ronnie]

Maybe we bin punked "LOL"


R

[Bustingear]

Sorry team as you can imagine i have been busy with getting the machine to an operable state, fixing a few other of my cars and general things from life that get in the way.
YES its running , finally. The main problem was NOT timing at all as many focused on but a case of weak spark which a couple did. Since i don't mess with these every day i was not able to tell weak spark from healthy spark. This stemmed from using a stock flatty dizzy cap and not having the Pertronix wires reaching properly down into the cap hole but just enough to barely spark. Its quite distance in an unmatched setup. Once i figured a fix for this it went out all together and i found the lead wire inside of the dizzy touching the housing.
After all this i became fed up with the stock vacuum Loadamatic and the intake set up. So a bought an aftermarket two pot and two Stromberg rip offs with a Mallory Unilite mechanical advance and a Mallory coil. The Pertronix was deep sixed.
Running like a clock now just chasing the usual new build bugs at this point. I do appreciate all of the help i was given and all of the possible suggestions.

[demingboy]

Hey congratulations. I really did want to know if you got it going. I read this forum daily and the amount of head scratching problems is amazing on these old flatheads.
I know they say you only need spark and fuel but dang old tech can get hard to diagnosis.
Its what I fear most is tracking down a timing/spark/start up issue on a rebuild.