The Ford Barn

BIG KEV · 04-25-2022, 03:51 PM

I have been thinking about something, as my B motor here thats full pressure oil has had very low oil pressure, 5 psi cold idle, 0 hot. Driving i get 8 cold, 2 hot... No knocks etc... but I have a Kenz oil filter on there, pressure gauge is Tee right there also.

So lets poll Will it boost pressure removing the filter or not.

With my knowledge, you open up a tap flowing 5/16" of oil through the filter and out without a pressure valve or restriction orfice, your pouring the pressure out and reducing pressure at least by half or more. That's how I view it at least. So maybe someone can chime in on this, I am really thinking about ditching this and seeing if the pressure increases drastically as I think it will.

I would like to filter the oil before putting it to all the locations, as I think that would be the best way to really run a true oil filter, but I don't have the machines to make such as I would need a mill most definitely.

Here is the motor in questions.
COUPE 44.jpg

Werner · 04-25-2022, 05:15 PM

Hi,

if you measure the oil pressure in front of the filter, then the delivery pressure of the pump is too low, or the bearing clearance is too large.
If you measure the low pressure behind the filter, then it makes sense to use an oil filter with low back pressure (not a micro-fine filter).

old ugly · 04-25-2022, 05:49 PM

its been a long time since i worked on a b motor, im curious about your problem.
you are taking oil from the main supply gallery at the pump that feeds the engine. where does that filter dump the oil back into the engine, into an oil gallery or just into the side chamber.

if that oil filter is bypassing the oil galleries then you will have no preasure.

GRutter · 04-25-2022, 08:44 PM

That timing gear side cover is not meant for a full oil pressure system. It dumps the oil back onto the timing gear.
BTW - If you do abandon your oil filter setup, I need that timing gear side cover for a project I am working on. See my request in Model A Wanted.

old ugly · 04-25-2022, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRutter

That timing gear side cover is not meant for a full oil pressure system. It dumps the oil back onto the timing gear.
BTW - If you do abandon your oil filter setup, I need that timing gear side cover for a project I am working on. See my request in Model A Wanted.

if so, then that engine will have no oil pressure to the main bearings.

CWPASADENA · 04-25-2022, 11:06 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

On A "B" engine, with a filter, to have any pressure to the main oil galley that feeds the mains and cam bearings, you have to put the oil from the filter back into the main oil galley, not just dump it into the front of the engine with the timing gears.

Hot, a "B" engine will only have about 1-2 psi at idle and 5-6 psi running at about 2000 RPM so you do not have much to work with to begin with.

Chris W.

BIG KEV · 04-26-2022, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRutter

That timing gear side cover is not meant for a full oil pressure system. It dumps the oil back onto the timing gear.
BTW - If you do abandon your oil filter setup, I need that timing gear side cover for a project I am working on. See my request in Model A Wanted.

Yeah, this was my thoughts as well, since there is no way to regulate the pressure this way and its like pouring it on the ground basically in regards to pressure.

I saw your add, I am trying to source a timing cover to pull this one off, I have an order in for a cast aluminum from Bangers Modified, but waiting on those to get founded. How soon are you needing it?

I have seen some on here that figured out the full pressure oiling it seems with a filter. Makes me wish I had the room for a mill and lathe...

jack backer · 04-26-2022, 07:45 AM

Your engine isn’t “pressurized” if those pressure readings are accurate you have the stock oiling system, dipper rods and pump flow to mains and cam bearings. The kenz filter is a bad idea, it diverts some flow before the main bearings get it..

johnneilson · 04-26-2022, 08:20 AM

Stock "B" motors are not pressurized, only oil directed to the mains and cam.
If you want pressure you must plug the front galley hole behind the cam gear and plug the port back into the dist drive.
Then route oil from the side of block (pump retainer hole) thru a filter and back into the side cover over the galley. Modifications to the pump are recommended.
That filter assy can be modified, plug the oil return and D&T a line fitting for outlet.
IMHO, a filter is much better than no filter.

John

PS, get a copy of Jim Brierleys book, 4 Bangers and Me. Best $35 you ever spend on manual.

The Master Cylinder · 04-26-2022, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnneilson

... get a copy of Jim Brierleys book, 4 Bangers and Me. Best $35 you ever spend on manual.

Agreed! Even if you are not modifying your engine this book is a good read.

BIG KEV · 04-26-2022, 10:23 AM

Bypassed the filter and gained 1 lb of pressure.. Ill do an oil change and drive her to see where were at with things...

I agree that the lack of pressure makes it look like its not what I was really sold when I bought it. Ill crack the pan off and see what's inside..

Jim Brierley · 04-26-2022, 11:18 AM

Your readings are below what a totally stock B engine normally produces, so something is definitely wrong. A filter should not be a restriction, I'm surprised you gained any pressure. You might try another gauge too, just to be sure. Are you sure it is a full-pressure system, with a drilled crank to feed oil to the rods, or are the rods still dipper? e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll send you the chapter of my book showing how to install a full flow filter.

Thanks guys for recommending my book!

GRutter · 04-26-2022, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG KEV

Yeah, this was my thoughts as well, since there is no way to regulate the pressure this way and its like pouring it on the ground basically in regards to pressure.

I saw your add, I am trying to source a timing cover to pull this one off, I have an order in for a cast aluminum from Bangers Modified, but waiting on those to get founded. How soon are you needing it?

I have seen some on here that figured out the full pressure oiling it seems with a filter. Makes me wish I had the room for a mill and lathe...

Cast Iron original Side Timing Covers are readily available on ebay typically for just a few dollars. Same timing cover fits 28-34 4-cyl engines. Part A-6017, unless you were looking for something else.

The Master Cylinder · 04-26-2022, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRutter

Cast Iron original Side Timing Covers are readily available on ebay typically for just a few dollars. Same timing cover fits 28-34 4-cyl engines. Part A-6017, unless you were looking for something else.

There is one now for $4.99

BIG KEV · 04-27-2022, 06:30 AM

So curiosity killed the cat... Dropped the pan last night, took apart the oil pump, found some red permatex on the screen, nothing too major there. Took apart and found the cover plate for the gears has been flipped around due to a piece of metal missing. But in their wisdom of rough grinding the side they put toward the gears there was no way it would even seal, or resist blowout. Evident by the amount of oil that was where metal to metal contact should be. Bushings are free, not terribly loose so they may be bleeding a bit of pressure down but didnt seem to be that bad. So I buffed the orig side down and put a little aviation sealant on the plate around the edges to hopefully aid in sealing up and keep more pressure in. Testing, on lowest speed my drill would acheive it was putting out oil and decent amount, barely anything over that and would shoot out a couple inches from pump, yes I made a mess even with my hand trying to cover the outlets.

So I am about to drop a rod cap off and check the crank for a hole to know. The rods are stock rods for sure with dipper tray still installed.

Someone coated the inside the engine and pan with the red whatever coating, looks real nice though for sure.

BIG KEV · 04-27-2022, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRutter

Cast Iron original Side Timing Covers are readily available on ebay typically for just a few dollars. Same timing cover fits 28-34 4-cyl engines. Part A-6017, unless you were looking for something else.

I have a new aluminum one on order right now from a guy, but it may be a little bit till that comes in since its still waiting to be founded.

Yeah, they are a pretty cheap piece to be found... Just trying to do things once, but may have to do it twice...

View Poll Results: Will removing the Oil Filter Adapter boost oil pressure or not change
Boost Oil pressure.	1	7.69%
No change in oil pressure.	12	92.31%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

04-25-2022, 03:51 PM	#1
BIG KEV Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Spring Tx Posts: 26	Oil filter questions. I have been thinking about something, as my B motor here thats full pressure oil has had very low oil pressure, 5 psi cold idle, 0 hot. Driving i get 8 cold, 2 hot... No knocks etc... but I have a Kenz oil filter on there, pressure gauge is Tee right there also. So lets poll Will it boost pressure removing the filter or not. With my knowledge, you open up a tap flowing 5/16" of oil through the filter and out without a pressure valve or restriction orfice, your pouring the pressure out and reducing pressure at least by half or more. That's how I view it at least. So maybe someone can chime in on this, I am really thinking about ditching this and seeing if the pressure increases drastically as I think it will. I would like to filter the oil before putting it to all the locations, as I think that would be the best way to really run a true oil filter, but I don't have the machines to make such as I would need a mill most definitely. Here is the motor in questions. COUPE 44.jpg

04-25-2022, 05:15 PM	#2
Werner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Germany, near Aachen Posts: 1,159	Re: Oil filter questions. Hi, if you measure the oil pressure in front of the filter, then the delivery pressure of the pump is too low, or the bearing clearance is too large. If you measure the low pressure behind the filter, then it makes sense to use an oil filter with low back pressure (not a micro-fine filter). __________________ Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland, Werner Ford Model A, Roadster, 1928 Citroen 11 CV, 1947 Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version

04-25-2022, 05:49 PM	#3
old ugly Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: alberta canada Posts: 585	Re: Oil filter questions. its been a long time since i worked on a b motor, im curious about your problem. you are taking oil from the main supply gallery at the pump that feeds the engine. where does that filter dump the oil back into the engine, into an oil gallery or just into the side chamber. if that oil filter is bypassing the oil galleries then you will have no preasure. __________________ old ugly my old father-in-law told me. "listen close when people tell you how to do stuff they may know something. then do it the way you want."

04-25-2022, 08:44 PM	#4
GRutter Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Mint Hill, North Carolina Posts: 386	Re: Oil filter questions. That timing gear side cover is not meant for a full oil pressure system. It dumps the oil back onto the timing gear. BTW - If you do abandon your oil filter setup, I need that timing gear side cover for a project I am working on. See my request in Model A Wanted.

04-25-2022, 11:06 PM	#6
CWPASADENA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: PASADENA, CA Posts: 1,885	Re: Oil filter questions. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) On A "B" engine, with a filter, to have any pressure to the main oil galley that feeds the mains and cam bearings, you have to put the oil from the filter back into the main oil galley, not just dump it into the front of the engine with the timing gears. Hot, a "B" engine will only have about 1-2 psi at idle and 5-6 psi running at about 2000 RPM so you do not have much to work with to begin with. Chris W.

04-26-2022, 07:45 AM	#8
jack backer BANNED Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Chenango Bridge NY Posts: 433	Re: Oil filter questions. Your engine isn’t “pressurized” if those pressure readings are accurate you have the stock oiling system, dipper rods and pump flow to mains and cam bearings. The kenz filter is a bad idea, it diverts some flow before the main bearings get it..

04-26-2022, 08:20 AM	#9
johnneilson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W Posts: 1,057	Re: Oil filter questions. Stock "B" motors are not pressurized, only oil directed to the mains and cam. If you want pressure you must plug the front galley hole behind the cam gear and plug the port back into the dist drive. Then route oil from the side of block (pump retainer hole) thru a filter and back into the side cover over the galley. Modifications to the pump are recommended. That filter assy can be modified, plug the oil return and D&T a line fitting for outlet. IMHO, a filter is much better than no filter. John PS, get a copy of Jim Brierleys book, 4 Bangers and Me. Best $35 you ever spend on manual. __________________ As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

04-26-2022, 10:23 AM	#11
BIG KEV Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Spring Tx Posts: 26	Re: Oil filter questions. Bypassed the filter and gained 1 lb of pressure.. Ill do an oil change and drive her to see where were at with things... I agree that the lack of pressure makes it look like its not what I was really sold when I bought it. Ill crack the pan off and see what's inside..

04-26-2022, 11:18 AM	#12
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,091	Re: Oil filter questions. Your readings are below what a totally stock B engine normally produces, so something is definitely wrong. A filter should not be a restriction, I'm surprised you gained any pressure. You might try another gauge too, just to be sure. Are you sure it is a full-pressure system, with a drilled crank to feed oil to the rods, or are the rods still dipper? e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll send you the chapter of my book showing how to install a full flow filter. Thanks guys for recommending my book!

04-27-2022, 06:30 AM	#15
BIG KEV Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Spring Tx Posts: 26	Re: Oil filter questions. So curiosity killed the cat... Dropped the pan last night, took apart the oil pump, found some red permatex on the screen, nothing too major there. Took apart and found the cover plate for the gears has been flipped around due to a piece of metal missing. But in their wisdom of rough grinding the side they put toward the gears there was no way it would even seal, or resist blowout. Evident by the amount of oil that was where metal to metal contact should be. Bushings are free, not terribly loose so they may be bleeding a bit of pressure down but didnt seem to be that bad. So I buffed the orig side down and put a little aviation sealant on the plate around the edges to hopefully aid in sealing up and keep more pressure in. Testing, on lowest speed my drill would acheive it was putting out oil and decent amount, barely anything over that and would shoot out a couple inches from pump, yes I made a mess even with my hand trying to cover the outlets. So I am about to drop a rod cap off and check the crank for a hole to know. The rods are stock rods for sure with dipper tray still installed. Someone coated the inside the engine and pan with the red whatever coating, looks real nice though for sure.