The Ford Barn

tbirdtbird · 07-17-2016, 08:55 PM

"Based on the article, and only that article my vote is for a 4 blade."

a mistake.

try to follow the thread along, and research the archives

harleynut · 07-17-2016, 10:18 PM

Just replaced an after market plastic fan that a previous owner installed. Someone in the past never installed the cotter pin. The castle nut worked loose and the fan and pulley were ruined. I replaced it with the two blade from Snyder's. No change in engine temperature. If I ever have to replace it, I don't have to remove the radiator. Perfectly happy with the two blade.

Ken Anderson · 07-17-2016, 10:44 PM

I had a three blade on my first Model A - used to be a four blade. The broken piece put a good dent in the front of the hood and the side of the radiator shell.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 07-18-2016, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Anderson

I had a three blade on my first Model A - used to be a four blade. The broken piece put a good dent in the front of the hood and the side of the radiator shell.

Ken,
Your Avatar car must have an OUT of ROUND wheel.
Bill W.

bobpo1 · 07-18-2016, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99ZoomR

Just ordered a new one...

Good choice 99ZoomR, I have never had a problem with my 2 blade and sealed bearing pump. They are what I call "peace of mind".

CarlG · 07-18-2016, 09:19 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Minervas' four blade fan had some peened over pot metal?? type rivets & were loose enough to LET LOOSE!!!!
I replaced it with the 6 blade, PLASTIC fan. AND, don't LECTURE me, EVERYONE did that to me, about 6 YEARS ago!!
Bill Sorry

After the rivets came loose on the 4-blade "Truck Fan" that my PU came with, and took out my radiator, it now has a 6-blade plastic fan.

Ken Anderson · 07-18-2016, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Ken,
Your Avatar car must have an OUT of ROUND wheel.
Bill W.

That avatar is exactly what the car felt like with the sudden change from 4 to 3 blades!!

Walt Ebie · 07-18-2016, 08:23 PM

Well, I pulled the old water pump and fan yesterday and put on the new pieces today, including a new fan belt. I did need a washer behind the castle nut, otherwise the nut would screw on well past the hole that takes the cotter pin. One washer brought it out just enough to tighten down good on the fan and let the pin fit in the nut notch as it should. That ended the strange noise that came from the old pump but now the car has little power, heats up to boiling, and gives me a backfire on shutdown. Unless someone has a better idea, I'll go back and revisit the timing.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-18-2016, 08:30 PM

Sounds like you have late timing.

DougVieyra · 07-19-2016, 01:29 AM

Don't listen to those nuts who run down the 4-blade fan. In the three weeks we have been in business we have never had a 4-blade fan fail. Why everyone knows that 4 is more than 2. So don't be frightened by the scardy-kats, buy a 4 blade fan - the older ones are the best. I think we would all be much better off it all Model A's had a 4-blade fan. I know we would.

- Bob Bogus, Iaqua Paint and Body Shop
- Phil Foolya, Iaqua Radiator Shop

59f-100 · 07-19-2016, 08:24 AM

In response to post #12; why is that an accident waiting to happen? I'm brand spanking new to the Model A hobby. The old but fresh rebuild on my Model A has a fan like #11 post. Is it the screws that I should be concerned about? Numerous posts mention the aluminum 2-blade updated model fan, but how do I know that's what I'm buying from the supplier? Can you refer me to a specific part and supplier?

Walt Ebie · 07-19-2016, 08:28 AM

Re Tom's post about late timing: Timing is where I'm going next and I understand the how the timing and backfiring are related, but, as a relatively new A owner, I have to ask....how does late timing cause overheating? What's the connection?

mshmodela · 07-19-2016, 08:42 AM

Lots of opinions, both will move air naturally --some will say there are benefits of 2 as opposed to 4 blades but really it's all a matter of your taste... My opinion is 2 bladed fans more historically accurate. In the end your opinion is all that matters...

JohnLaVoy · 07-19-2016, 08:47 AM

The repro two blades work fine, we happen to like the modern plastic fans. Less weight on the outer edge to create pressure on the water pump.

Joe K · 07-19-2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59f-100

In response to post #12; why is that an accident waiting to happen? I'm brand spanking new to the Model A hobby. The old but fresh rebuild on my Model A has a fan like #11 post. Is it the screws that I should be concerned about? Numerous posts mention the aluminum 2-blade updated model fan, but how do I know that's what I'm buying from the supplier? Can you refer me to a specific part and supplier?

Yours would appear to be the JCWhitney/Western Auto/Pep Boys replacement fan from the 1950s-60s.

I've had good service from two of my three. I mentioned replacing "self tapping screws" used on one of these with regular grade 5 hex head bolts (like the other two) I also mentioned a potential for "double" the bolt loading on the four blade version of this fan, which I view as an undesirable condition.

BUT - it would seem the new aluminum fans have now had the bugs gotten out of the pipeline. It probably does not matter which retailer you buy your two blade from - they're all from the same place. Probably China (what isn't these days?)

Which of these you use is certainly your choice - as it is mine. I'll probably use the Aluminum blade fan on my "best" (and first) Model A and reserve the JCWhitney fan for the second (in the making - the same one with drum bands and the 3.78 rear end and the huckins horn.)

I still have a four blade fan on my Gordon Smith Compressor - but I've replaced the rivets with bolts - and a failure will only cut through a homebrew sheet metal radiator cover. When I sandblast I usually stand at distance from the compressor.

I may think this out again as I certainly have spare JC Whitney fans.

Joe K

DJ S · 07-19-2016, 09:16 AM

I say that it is an accident just waiting to happen due to its age. Without thorough inspection, a crack could easily be missed, and a blade can be sent through your hood or radiatior. It's deign is also faulty for anyone who isn't mechanically savvy. If those bolts holding the blad onto the pulley aren't tight enough with lock washers underneath them then that blade will work itself loose, vibrate like crazy, and eventually break. The two blade aluminum fans are a cheap piece of mind, one less thing to worry about.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 07-19-2016, 09:22 AM

Purdy Swoft once posted pics of his balancing fixture, made from single edged razor blades, mounted in a "V" shape, in a wood box. I think Tom W. did the same thing.
Friend, Dennis, bought a "restored" 2 blade at a swap & lie meet & after stripping it, it had been straightened & was FULL of BONDO!
Bill W.

Tom Wesenberg · 07-19-2016, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Ebie

Re Tom's post about late timing: Timing is where I'm going next and I understand the how the timing and backfiring are related, but, as a relatively new A owner, I have to ask....how does late timing cause overheating? What's the connection?

The burning fuel makes heat, which increases the cylinder pressure, which pushes the piston down to do work. The more heat that is used to push the piston down, the more efficient the engine will be. If the timing is late not as much heat pushes the piston, but instead flows out the exhaust, which heats up the manifold and the coolant around the exhaust valves. You also need to open the throttle more to make up for the heat going out the exhaust with late timing, and more throttle means even more heat.

Mitch//pa · 07-19-2016, 12:31 PM

It causes an incomplete burn

Walt Ebie · 07-20-2016, 07:50 PM

Latest chapter in my ongoing saga: Checked the timing again today - I could see the dimple in the center of the timing pin hole and at the same time the #1 piston was almost to the top. In addition, I reset the distributor points - got 6V at the points and used the new Quick-Setter gauge - used the NuRex to reset the cam. Also pulled, cleaned and regapped the spark plugs but in the end could not get it to crank up. Acted like no gas. So, I pulled the strainer in the carb and found it clean. Noticed that when I pulled the strainer very little gas ran out - probably less than a teaspoon but I would have expected more. But when I turn on the fuel valve I get a good gas flow. So what's next? Timing still?

07-17-2016, 08:55 PM	#21
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: 2-blade or 4? "Based on the article, and only that article my vote is for a 4 blade." a mistake. try to follow the thread along, and research the archives __________________ '31 180A

07-17-2016, 10:18 PM	#22
harleynut Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Pittsburgh Pa Posts: 279	Re: 2-blade or 4? Just replaced an after market plastic fan that a previous owner installed. Someone in the past never installed the cotter pin. The castle nut worked loose and the fan and pulley were ruined. I replaced it with the two blade from Snyder's. No change in engine temperature. If I ever have to replace it, I don't have to remove the radiator. Perfectly happy with the two blade.

07-17-2016, 10:44 PM	#23
Ken Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 54	Re: 2-blade or 4? I had a three blade on my first Model A - used to be a four blade. The broken piece put a good dent in the front of the hood and the side of the radiator shell.

07-18-2016, 08:23 PM	#28
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Re: 2-blade or 4? Well, I pulled the old water pump and fan yesterday and put on the new pieces today, including a new fan belt. I did need a washer behind the castle nut, otherwise the nut would screw on well past the hole that takes the cotter pin. One washer brought it out just enough to tighten down good on the fan and let the pin fit in the nut notch as it should. That ended the strange noise that came from the old pump but now the car has little power, heats up to boiling, and gives me a backfire on shutdown. Unless someone has a better idea, I'll go back and revisit the timing.

07-18-2016, 08:30 PM	#29
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 2-blade or 4? Sounds like you have late timing.

07-19-2016, 01:29 AM	#30
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: 2-blade or 4? Don't listen to those nuts who run down the 4-blade fan. In the three weeks we have been in business we have never had a 4-blade fan fail. Why everyone knows that 4 is more than 2. So don't be frightened by the scardy-kats, buy a 4 blade fan - the older ones are the best. I think we would all be much better off it all Model A's had a 4-blade fan. I know we would. - Bob Bogus, Iaqua Paint and Body Shop - Phil Foolya, Iaqua Radiator Shop

07-19-2016, 08:24 AM	#31
59f-100 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2	Re: 2-blade or 4? In response to post #12; why is that an accident waiting to happen? I'm brand spanking new to the Model A hobby. The old but fresh rebuild on my Model A has a fan like #11 post. Is it the screws that I should be concerned about? Numerous posts mention the aluminum 2-blade updated model fan, but how do I know that's what I'm buying from the supplier? Can you refer me to a specific part and supplier?

07-19-2016, 08:28 AM	#32
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Re: 2-blade or 4? Re Tom's post about late timing: Timing is where I'm going next and I understand the how the timing and backfiring are related, but, as a relatively new A owner, I have to ask....how does late timing cause overheating? What's the connection?

07-19-2016, 08:42 AM	#33
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: 2-blade or 4? Lots of opinions, both will move air naturally --some will say there are benefits of 2 as opposed to 4 blades but really it's all a matter of your taste... My opinion is 2 bladed fans more historically accurate. In the end your opinion is all that matters... __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

07-19-2016, 08:47 AM	#34
JohnLaVoy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 779	Re: 2-blade or 4? The repro two blades work fine, we happen to like the modern plastic fans. Less weight on the outer edge to create pressure on the water pump.

07-19-2016, 09:16 AM	#36
DJ S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Southwick, MA Posts: 590	Re: 2-blade or 4? I say that it is an accident just waiting to happen due to its age. Without thorough inspection, a crack could easily be missed, and a blade can be sent through your hood or radiatior. It's deign is also faulty for anyone who isn't mechanically savvy. If those bolts holding the blad onto the pulley aren't tight enough with lock washers underneath them then that blade will work itself loose, vibrate like crazy, and eventually break. The two blade aluminum fans are a cheap piece of mind, one less thing to worry about.

07-19-2016, 09:22 AM	#37
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: 2-blade or 4? Purdy Swoft once posted pics of his balancing fixture, made from single edged razor blades, mounted in a "V" shape, in a wood box. I think Tom W. did the same thing. Friend, Dennis, bought a "restored" 2 blade at a swap & lie meet & after stripping it, it had been straightened & was FULL of BONDO! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

07-19-2016, 12:31 PM	#39
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: 2-blade or 4? It causes an incomplete burn

07-20-2016, 07:50 PM	#40
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Re: 2-blade or 4? Latest chapter in my ongoing saga: Checked the timing again today - I could see the dimple in the center of the timing pin hole and at the same time the #1 piston was almost to the top. In addition, I reset the distributor points - got 6V at the points and used the new Quick-Setter gauge - used the NuRex to reset the cam. Also pulled, cleaned and regapped the spark plugs but in the end could not get it to crank up. Acted like no gas. So, I pulled the strainer in the carb and found it clean. Noticed that when I pulled the strainer very little gas ran out - probably less than a teaspoon but I would have expected more. But when I turn on the fuel valve I get a good gas flow. So what's next? Timing still?