Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2020, 08:01 AM   #21
itslow
Senior Member
 
itslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 687
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
….only because it's ILLEGAL
I suspect you'll have a hard time finding any federal or state laws that prohibit drums from being turned to an ID greater than .060" oversize.

Laws will be written to prohibit exceeding the drum/disc manufacturer's recommended minimum thickness, not some arbitrary measurement of .060" or such.

Manufacturer A's drums may only be able to be turned to 12.060", while Manufacturer B's drums may be able to be turned to 12.160".
__________________
Mike

Wanted:
- '32-34 Open Cab Pickup (RPU) parts and documents/articles/info
- ARDUN parts
itslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 08:12 AM   #22
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Doesn't have much to do with Ford, there are state and federal laws that cover this. This applies to all brake drums (with some exceptions) on all vehicles. Why, because that is the design safety limits. Can you exceed these limits and get the brakes to work? Yep. Just like any safety limit there are designed in margins, the brakes are not going to fail at .061 over. I don't know what the safely margins are on brake drums, but typically safety margins run at least 2x or more. So .120 would work without total failure but would totally defeat the whole purpose of having safety limits.

The thickness of the drum has to do with lots of design elements, one bit one is heat dissipation. A problem with drum brakes is fade. With heavy use the drums heat up enough that they stop functioning correctly. The thinner the drums the quicker that occurs.

There are also issues with the shoes. The more the drum is enlarged over it's design diameter the poorer the match there is the shoe design diameter.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-30-2020, 09:12 AM   #23
51504bat
Senior Member
 
51504bat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SoCal-Redlands
Posts: 2,997
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Seems like we are starting to get wrapped around the axle here with this thread (no pun intended). The bottom line is that there are specifications and limits pertaining to maximum allowable limits for brake drum over sizes. While I'm no expert here is some info regarding brakes which may or may not pertain to your situation.



The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration specifies requirements for trucks:
405 Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
§ 393.47 Brake actuators, slack adjust-ers, linings/pads and drums/rotors.
(g) Drums and rotors. The thickness of the drums or rotors shall not be less than the limits established by the brake drum or rotor manufacturer.



California (as I'm sure other states as well) has requirements pertaining to vehicle brakes as well:



CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS (CCR) SECTIONS 3300 THROUGH 3320]


BUREAU OF AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR BRAKE ADJUSTERS’ HANDBOOK practicable with respect to the wheels on opposite sides of the vehicle.” The adjuster should not certify a vehicle if (1)any drum or rotor exceeds the vehicle or parts manufacturer's service limits, (2)the thickness of the brake lining (friction material) is found to be less than that specified by the manufacturer's service limits, (3) the vehicle fails to stop within the required distance, (4) the parking brake system is found to be inadequate or in operative, or (5) any other condition is found that would make the service braking system unsafe.


The key here is the manufacturer's specifications or limits. Seems clear to me, if your brake drums exceed manufacturer's you are pushing your luck and endangering others.
__________________
Making the simple complicated for over 30 years.
51504bat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 10:16 AM   #24
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,935
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branded View Post
Never have I heard of anyone ever having someone wanting to measure brake drums for being overturned after an accident.
In Illinois back in early 1980's, two folks were killed when a persons brakes failed and they were run over.
The person driving was eventually jailed. It was quite the sensation back then making a lot of the national news outlets.
It also changed a lot of ways of doing business.
No more oversize brake shoes were sold and no more "lesser quality" aka "economy" shoes / pads were sold to those trying to go "cheap". Only pads / shoes manufactured to the minimum required by the car maker were to be sold after that debacle.

So, now you have heard...
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 10:25 AM   #25
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,259
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

All this has me wondering. Is it possible that some unenlightened judge and jury might find someone driving a car with mechanical brakes liable for using outdated technology? In this litigenous society with super aggressive lawyers I wouldn't be surprised.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 10:31 AM   #26
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 4,541
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
whether restoring from the ground up, or just trying to put an old car back on the road, i'm sure all of us are going to at least check, and go thru the brakes. but, when i look at all the badly worn drums in my stash, it seems they didnt much care. they just put new shoes in and out the door it went. most of what i have are .100 and bigger

Last edited by cas3; 07-30-2020 at 10:32 AM. Reason: add
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 10:38 AM   #27
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,141
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by cas3 View Post
whether restoring from the ground up, or just trying to put an old car back on the road, i'm sure all of us are going to at least check, and go thru the brakes. but, when i look at all the badly worn drums in my stash, it seems they didnt much care. they just put new shoes in and out the door it went. most of what i have are .100 and bigger
So true. I have a few that are so badly grooved, there must not have been any lining material left and the rivets there doing the stopping.

I was just thinking to myself the other day, why in the world am I holding on to these things?
Tim Ayers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2020, 11:15 AM   #28
GB SISSON
Senior Member
 
GB SISSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,843
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

I just bought a complete rear axle for my '92 f350 dually from a wrecking yard. The linings were worn off long ago and the bare shoes were getting REALLY thin. Thankfully, I had just done a complete brake job with new drums on the axle that I was replacing. Who drives around like that in a loaded flatbed????? In other words, this type of hackery is still being commited today.
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
GB SISSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 06:36 AM   #29
john in illinois
Senior Member
 
john in illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,181
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

I have read on the HAMB or here that there is a company that will reline any drum back to new diameter. They were expensive but it might be with looking into.

John
__________________
Welcome each day
john in illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 07:42 AM   #30
KGS
Senior Member
 
KGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Schooley's Mountain
Posts: 530
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by john in illinois View Post
I have read on the HAMB or here that there is a company that will reline any drum back to new diameter. They were expensive but it might be with looking into.

John
This is the one. Also in a thread here on the "Barn"...

https://www.jgrelining.com/
KGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 07:42 AM   #31
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 2,106
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kube View Post
In Illinois back in early 1980's, two folks were killed when a persons brakes failed and they were run over.
The person driving was eventually jailed. It was quite the sensation back then making a lot of the national news outlets.
It also changed a lot of ways of doing business.
No more oversize brake shoes were sold and no more "lesser quality" aka "economy" shoes / pads were sold to those trying to go "cheap". Only pads / shoes manufactured to the minimum required by the car maker were to be sold after that debacle.

So, now you have heard...
Brakes can fail for many reasons, even driver ignorance. One big no no that people have done is compression fittings on brake lines. A parts store did not want to sell me some compression fittings and a piece of brake line until I explained I was fixing my transmission lines.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 09:25 AM   #32
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,872
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Pay attention to what V8 and others have advised. Don't cheat on your brakes.
Today's lawyers will hire "old car restoration" specialists who will do an "automotive autopsy", find faulty parts and even recreate a visual of the accident.
19Fordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 03:29 PM   #33
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 11,106
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
Is it possible that some unenlightened judge and jury might find someone driving a car with mechanical brakes liable for using outdated technology?
In the same light, might that same ignorant judge.....scratch that....."unenlightened" judge also find your 'old-timey' drum brakes on the front of your '51 as qualifying for "outdated" also, in view of the fact that his wife's Mercedes and virtually all modern cars (that he has seen at the Country Club) have anti-skid & disc brakes, at least in the front? DD
__________________
Click Links Below __


'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 04:46 PM   #34
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,259
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
In the same light, might that same ignorant judge.....scratch that....."unenlightened" judge also find your 'old-timey' drum brakes on the front of your '51 as qualifying for "outdated" also, in view of the fact that his wife's Mercedes and virtually all modern cars (that he has seen at the Country Club) have anti-skid & disc brakes, at least in the front? DD
Maybe, but drum brakes are still currently used on some models; mechanical brakes are not.

AND, if you are right, we are lost because we don't have ABS.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 01:00 PM   #35
bobH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: so cal, placerville, vegas
Posts: 1,394
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGS View Post
This is the one. Also in a thread here on the "Barn"...

https://www.jgrelining.com/
This is really good info that I really appreciate. I've just chatted with Don, the owner, and now I'm on the hunt for 35 drums with less regard for their size. Thank you.
bobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 01:49 PM   #36
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,872
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

I bought my Ford pickup 27 years ago. It has disc/drum brakes.
Will there come a day when my insurance company can simply decide, "your truck's too old for us to insure any longer" as a daily driver even if all components function as new?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5336b.jpg (101.7 KB, 5 views)
19Fordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 01:58 PM   #37
RobR'35
Senior Member
 
RobR'35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan
Posts: 604
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Let us hope not. They've enough control as it is.
RobR'35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 02:12 PM   #38
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 10,856
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

'35 drums were one year only in the US. So good ones measuring less than 12.060" diameter, in the area where brake linings contact the drums, are difficult to find. Having/owning a number of '35 vehicles, I hold on to every good one I get my hands on. If the time ever came when I couldn't find good original '35 drums, I would not hesitate to use good original '40-'48 drums, along with ring spacers that properly support '35 wire wheels.
The 12.060 dia. limit was probably dictated to all licensed brake repair shops by law.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 08-01-2020 at 03:28 PM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 02:45 PM   #39
FlatheadTed
Senior Member
 
FlatheadTed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland
Posts: 4,691
Send a message via AIM to FlatheadTed
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

Maybe Change the spindles to later and use the repoped 40 drums ,
__________________
http://www.flatheadted.com


Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,
FlatheadTed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 06:11 PM   #40
aussie merc
Senior Member
 
aussie merc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: sydney australia
Posts: 1,025
Default Re: Oversized Brake Drums

over sizing brake drums has been a subject of great debate ever since they where invented as a licenced mechanic i use manufacturers spec as to max oversize and it stands up in court every time these days with 18 wheelers it costs more to oversize than to replace with new ones as for our oldies parts no longer grow wild so im an advocate of rebuilding drums with metal spray or sadly up gradeing to modern types lets face it i would rather stop in time than have a drum shatter and be a filler for a pine box
aussie merc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 AM.