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Old 03-22-2021, 07:45 AM   #1
rockfla
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Default Electrical questions from an Idiot

1) does a starter have to be wired for + or - ground?
2) I have 6.29 volts at the "inside" of my solenoid , WHEN I press the start button on the dash shouldn't I get that on the opposite side of the solenoid?
3) Logic would tell me that on the "key/On--Off" switch, one of the two sides "should" be hot, correct??
Chasing electrical issues and wanting a "clearer" understanding. Thanks!!!
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Old 03-22-2021, 07:56 AM   #2
JWL
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

The starter must be grounded but which pole is not an issue. so long as the system arrangement is followed. The starter side of the solenoid should have nearly the same voltage unless there is a load attached.(like a starter) Yes, the on-off ignition switch has one "hot" terminal.
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:13 AM   #3
aussie merc
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

if your smart enough to ask a question then your no idiot Just wondering what's the problem ???? wont crank / cranks wont start / starts wont run .
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

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if your smart enough to ask a question then your no idiot Just wondering what's the problem ???? wont crank / cranks wont start / starts wont run .
First, i'm following 80% of someone else's wiring work SO......BUT I am working on my 41 GP and I "finished" the "other" wiring and SO I figured I would pop a battery into it and just hit the starter button to see "IF" I got the reaction I was hoping for.......NOTHING.......SO I'm not getting anything from the starter, I did check continuity thru on/off switch to make sure it was working and its sketchy at best, I had to turn and move/jiggle the key to get it to make a connection SO I know for sure I have to change that. BUT I should get the starter to turn regardless of the key being on or off.
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

The dash starter button activates the solenoid by grounding the wire to dash. Make sure starter button can get a good path to ground by cleaning any rust where it fits in dash.
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:49 AM   #6
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Series wound high torque motors are not polarity sensitive. Most early ford starter relays are hard wired to the battery with the start button grounding the relay circuit to operate. They will turn the motor with the ignition switch in the on or off position. Polarity is designated by the way the battery is connected. Negative is the power side and positive is the ground side on the early fords after the model T and up into the mid 50s. You can run them negative ground but the generator is polarity sensitive and would require repolarization in the event that the battery polarity is changed to negative ground.

The old starter relays have an internal connection to the power side of the relay where the battery cable is connected. If you connect it backwards, there will be no power to the relay coil when the button is pushed.
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

ROTORWRENCh
SO......I believe that "originally" the battery was hooked up "backwards" ie Negative ground and it was "supposedly" run this way for about 30 seconds. I believe this as that is the way the battery was hooked up when we picked it up and got it to my shop....the first thing noticed!!!!
SO reading your post I will for sure need to re-polarize the Generator??? AND am I reading that the solenoid will need replacing????
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

First be sure the battery is connected to the "Bat" side of the solenoid. Second, be sure battery terminal connections are clean and tight. Then check for good connections to ground and to the solenoid.

Then: If the solenoid does not click when the starter button is pressed, try a direct wire from the small wire terminal on the solenoid (connection to the starter button) to a good ground. If the solenoid still does not click you have a bad solenoid. To check the starter, take a battery gauge cable and momentarily jumper from one side of the solenoid to the other.

If the solenoid clicks but starter does not crank, hold the starter button in for a few seconds, then check touch the battery cable to the starter to see if they are a bit warm. If so the starter is jammed, bound up, or shorted out internally somehow. If the starter draws little current when the solenoid is engaged, one of the brushes is worn out or sitting on a high or dirty spot on the armature. Time to rebuild the starter.

Last edited by drolston; 03-22-2021 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

Unless you want to mess with a lot of stuff, it would be much easier to switch it back the positive ground. Ether way you need to figure out the current path at the starter solenoid. The current from the battery terminal needs to connect inside the solenoid to the small terminal on the front. When this terminal is grounded (pressing the starter button) it activates the solenoid and provides power to the starter. Use a test light or meter to see if you have power to both the battery side and the center terminal, both should be hot all the time. If not, you may need to switch the battery and starter cables at the solenoid. Might be best to disconnect the starter cable while doing this checks as it could activate the starter!
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

DOES the solenoid ALSO need to be ground visa via the mounting bracket???? OR should it be????
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

No!
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Old 03-23-2021, 06:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

Thanks for all the answers, direction and advice....I think I have narrowed my problem down to the "push button" switch and either a bad switch OR bad ground. I was able to put a jumper wire from the solenoid to the battery and get "action" from the starter. I checked the continuity of the wire from the push button to the solenoid and it IS continuous. SO I pulled the push button switch and ran a jumper from the - battery post to the back of the push button switch and got it to turn SO........my limited mind tells me either a switch or ground issue??? SO I thought about this last night and am I correct in that I "should" be able to do a "continuity test on my push button switch by touching the probe to the outer tangs that hold the switch to the dash and touching the wire lug on the back correct???? AND IF everything is working correctly when I push the button I should here the "BEEP" of continuity, correct????
Thanks again for all the help!!!!
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Old 03-23-2021, 08:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

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Originally Posted by rockfla View Post
I "should" be able to do a "continuity test on my push button switch by touching the probe to the outer tangs that hold the switch to the dash and touching the wire lug on the back correct???? AND IF everything is working correctly when I push the button I should here the "BEEP" of continuity, correct????
Even better yet (since the DASH is the GROUNDING surface), put one probe on the wire lug on back of button. Place the other probe on the dash itself. If the button's TANGS are properly making a GROUND with the dash, you should get the "BEEP" of joy.....WHEN you PRESS the start button! DD
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Old 03-23-2021, 09:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

Thanks V8Coopman
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Old 03-23-2021, 09:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

Kube has stated in the past that he adds a ground wire to the button and connects to an inconspicuous place behind dash to improve the ground connection between the button and the dash.
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Old 03-23-2021, 10:19 AM   #16
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Kube has stated in the past that he adds a ground wire to the button and connects to an inconspicuous place behind dash to improve the ground connection between the button and the dash.
That's my plan of attack!!!! Thanks for the reminder
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Old 03-23-2021, 11:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

When you are running the jumper to the battery you are connecting it to the grounded side of the battery, correct? They just jumping the terminal on the solenoid to ground, that will energize it.
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Old 03-23-2021, 11:38 AM   #18
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When you are running the jumper to the battery you are connecting it to the grounded side of the battery, correct? They just jumping the terminal on the solenoid to ground, that will energize it.
I can run the jumper wire from the small center post on the solenoid to the battery side of the solenoid and get it to turn over. I also pull the push button out of the dash with the wire connected to it and run a jumper from the (-) side or power side of the battery to the back of the switch and get it to turn over......When I tried the (+) or ground side to the push button switch, NOTHING!!!!! Which doesn't make sense to me??? AS I thought that "grounding" the wire would make it turn over!!!! SO again, I know my issue is at the push button switch somewhere somehow
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Old 03-23-2021, 11:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Electrical questions from an Idiot

The replacement starter buttons are notoriously unreliable. I fought with an intermittent function starter button of the replacement type for two years. Finally replaced it with a stupid expensive original used one, and have not had a problem since.
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Old 03-23-2021, 12:38 PM   #20
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I can run the jumper wire from the small center post on the solenoid to the battery side of the solenoid and get it to turn over. I also pull the push button out of the dash with the wire connected to it and run a jumper from the (-) side or power side of the battery to the back of the switch and get it to turn over......When I tried the (+) or ground side to the push button switch, NOTHING!!!!! Which doesn't make sense to me??? AS I thought that "grounding" the wire would make it turn over!!!! SO again, I know my issue is at the push button switch somewhere somehow
Hey, rock .....Are you sure that you have the starter cable ...AND the NEG Battery cables on the CORRECT solenoid posts? You sure you don't have them swapped, side for side?

If you DO have the two big cables on the CORRECT posts (it matters), when you measure voltage from the SMALL post to GROUND, your meter should show 6v~.

If you have the two big cables wired to the WRONG solenoid posts, and you measure voltage between the SMALL post and GROUND, your meter should read 0.0v (ZERO volts). But what do I know?

NOTE....This all assuming you now have the battery wired as POSITIVE GROUND. DD



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