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09-22-2016, 03:23 PM | #1 |
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Wheel balancing and weights
I recently changed from 1935 16" wheels to the correct 19" wheels with new tires on my 31 coupe. I occasionally get some front wheel wobble when I hit a bump in the road. I am going to check to make sure all the steering and suspension is tight. I have hydraulic brakes (came with the car when I bought it and I didn't know any different then) so I have 40's backing plates and the adapters for the wheels. I am also going to check the toe in and balance the wheels.
When you balance your wheels, do you use the adhesive weights or the hammer on weights? Also do you put the weights on the outside of the wheel or the inside? Thanks for any help you can give me. Ken |
09-22-2016, 03:27 PM | #2 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I doubt very much its a tire balance issue IF A BUMP SETS IT OFF...
Last edited by Mitch//pa; 09-22-2016 at 04:47 PM. |
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09-22-2016, 03:28 PM | #3 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
The garage I take my modern cars to has a spin balancer with lots of adapters so my 29 A wheels will fit. I used the stick on weights on the inside of the wheel. Been there 3 seasons with no trouble.
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09-22-2016, 03:37 PM | #4 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
im not sure the hammer on weights will work, the adhesive weights will, if you cant find a shop to spin balance the tire and you have to bubble balance the tire, put half the weight on inside and half on the outside, trouble with bubble balancing its only good till about 50 to 55 mph
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09-22-2016, 03:40 PM | #5 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
an unbalanced wheel WILL START WHEEL WOBBLE, I know from experience
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09-22-2016, 04:10 PM | #6 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
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A guy in our club just stopped his death wobble by tightening the 4 linkage screws half or one turn each. |
09-22-2016, 04:19 PM | #7 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I will bet a dollar to a doughnut that balance is not the source of your death wobble! There was a good thread on the causes and remedies last week. Do a search! Wayne
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09-22-2016, 04:30 PM | #8 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
As Mitch said, I doubt your problem is in the balance of your wheels, although this shouldn't be ignored. Spin balancing isOK, but so's a bubble balancer. I fear you have the beginning of a "Death wobble". Going through rough terrain will start it off and you must stop the car to stop it. "Death Wobble" can be caused by many things, frinstance.Just about any worn front end parts. Steering balls should be checked for out of round. More than .020 OOR should be replaced.There are bushings on the ends/eyes of the springs and these wear through and must be replaced. A word to the wise here, Don't try taking your springs apart. With the tension in these springs there is a great likelyhood of a serious injury or worse. The first place to check is the wheel bearings. Jack it up and shake the wheels. Look for looseness and fix it.
Terry Last edited by Terry, NJ; 09-28-2016 at 08:13 AM. |
09-22-2016, 04:38 PM | #9 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
After all the other problems are taken care of, try balancing beads. They really work.
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/wheel-balancing-beads
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09-22-2016, 04:54 PM | #10 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I've seen plenty of bubble balancing that was not good at any speed and if it does work it's pure luck, that's like doing an alignment with a stick
Last edited by Mitch//pa; 09-22-2016 at 05:42 PM. |
09-22-2016, 06:10 PM | #11 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Thanks for all the advice. In the next few days I will go through and check the linkage screws, the nut at the steering wheel, steering balls, bushings, etc. Even if the wobble is not from wheel balance, I think I will balance the wheels and check the toe in (can't hurt and might make the tires last longer.)
Thanks again, and I will post my results when I have had a chance to go through everything. Ken |
09-22-2016, 06:25 PM | #12 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
if you end up balanceping try the beads. I have had great success with them. Wayne
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09-22-2016, 09:21 PM | #13 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I must be lucky! I've never had a problem with the method! Just get the weight and split it, half on the inside and half on the outside. With the narrow Mod A rims, the weight need not be split. With modern tires, I find very little weight is needed to correct the imbalance. As opposed to the older tires. I once had a snow tire that required 6 oz to run correctly. I haven't seen anything like that in years. One problem I accidentally discovered was with my neighbors car. The tire could not be balanced! Whenever you thought you had the light side of the wheel, it moved. I finally realized what was going on, the tire was full of water. The previous owner never thought to drain his compressor and the tank was full of condensate, so much so that it was going out the air hose with the air and filling the tire with as much water as air. We drained and dried everything and it was fine.
Terry |
09-22-2016, 09:25 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Quote:
Your close enough,,stop by with one of your bubbled tires and we'll check its accuracy on the smart weight balancer |
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09-22-2016, 10:43 PM | #15 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Well thanks, Mitch! but that probably isn't going to happen for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is my bad back. My wife gives me hell when I try lifting something like a tire. So I had my tires mounted and balanced on my truck upon purchase. I don't like it but whatcha gonna do when you're disabled? It's about $35 extra and that always galls me, someone charging me for something I can do myself. But at 72YO. I've got to admit I'm slowing down and my back's a special problem. I'm going to keep the balancer and I will just do Mod A wheels from time to time. Which brings us to the real question, Why does anyone need the degree of accuracy that the word "Smart" implies?In all my cars, for which I have mounted and balanced the tires in the last 40 years, I have never noticed any great difference in the "Modern" spin balancing and my archaic, old method. This like buying a two Lb hammer and it actually weighs 2.1 Lbs. Does it really make a difference? Then there's the problem of wheel weights themselves. What do you do when the error is just a little over or under the error indicated. I have shaved weights when the error was under, but there's not much you can do if it requires more weight to correct the error.
Terry |
09-23-2016, 07:19 AM | #16 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
OK Terry
For the record I never found the need to balance my A wheels.. |
09-23-2016, 07:42 PM | #17 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
If you have certain later ford drums with your hydraulic brakes you might need spacers behind your wheels, unless the adapters you mention are these spacers.
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09-23-2016, 09:39 PM | #18 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I've always just balanced them on the car, and used the hammer on weights, and I split the weights between inside and out. I rarely hit speeds over 50, and that is plenty good enough balance for me.
Then, because I'm nuts, I paint the balance weights.
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09-23-2016, 10:54 PM | #19 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I balance the wheels of anything that goes faster than 25 mph. You never know what you're going to find. And there's no reason to ride around with grossly out of balance tires. It may be masking another problem. "Nah, it's just the wheels, they're not balanced!" No, It may be something else!
Terry |
09-24-2016, 12:00 AM | #20 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Yes, the adapters I mention are the spacers. My drums are 1940 in front and 1948 in back if I remember correctly.
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09-24-2016, 12:02 AM | #21 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Thanks, I like the idea of painting the weights so they are not as noticeable.
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09-24-2016, 06:09 AM | #22 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Quote:
But if I did need to balance them, I would use the beads as IMHO the stick/hammer on weights detract from the appearance.
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09-24-2016, 08:16 AM | #23 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
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09-27-2016, 05:21 PM | #24 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
The way I do it is to take a front wheel bearing loose until it turns very easily, and then put on a wheel. It will go to the heavy side down, I use hammer on weights and put them on the inside of the wheel. Just add or remove weights until the wheel doesn't find a consistent place to stop. Three more and they will all be done. I have been up to speeds that shouldn't be achieved in a model A and the tires were rock solid and smooth.
A real problem is having a tire put on the wheel incorrectly, watch your line on the tire and make sure it is on the wheel evenly so it will run true. Last edited by Marshall57; 09-27-2016 at 05:22 PM. Reason: needs extra words |
09-27-2016, 06:26 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Quote:
One thing to keep in mind, you are balancing the tire/rim/brake-drum combination... so if you remove the wheel for some reason, you want to put the wheel back in same position. I put a line on the brake-drum with a tire crayon to mark where the valve stem goes. Ken
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09-27-2016, 07:25 PM | #26 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
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09-28-2016, 02:42 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
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You're saying these beads will fix that issue? In my mind I don't see how they would work, seems beads in the tire would make matters worse. How am I wrong on this and beads are right?
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09-28-2016, 07:24 AM | #28 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I was once watching a Man balancing the NEW General Tires for my '81 Maxima. As he picked up an 8" weight, we made EYE contact, I shook my head "NO" & he whipped the tire off & got another from the back room!
Bill Fussy
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09-28-2016, 09:54 AM | #29 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
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09-28-2016, 10:31 AM | #30 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg |
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09-28-2016, 11:10 AM | #31 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
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BTW, the guys on the Studebaker site refer to the drag link as "the reach rod". That's one I'd never heard before. |
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10-26-2016, 04:26 PM | #32 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I asked about this a few weeks ago because I got intermitant wheel wobble, but I had to go out of town and didn't get to it until yesterday. As suggested, I checked all steering and suspension to make sure everything was tight and the correct shape (round - not oval, etc.). Everything was tight and round. I also checked the toe-in. It was very close (about 1/32) but I adjusted it so it was completely correct. I had the wheels spin balanced and they are all now dead on from a balance standpoint. The A drives better now, however I discovered my wheels are bent. I think that is probably the problem with the wheel wobble. I am going to look into straightening the wheels, but may look for new, unbent wheels.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions. Ken |
10-26-2016, 05:10 PM | #33 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
What happens when a tyre with those dynabeads is punctured? Do you lose the beads? Do they help slow or stop the leak? Can a tube with beads in it be reused when new tyres are fitted. YES, I do reuse tubes and have done so all my life unless it is obviously KAPUT.
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10-26-2016, 06:32 PM | #34 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Quote:
Being a visual kind of guy this answer's my question.
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10-26-2016, 07:05 PM | #35 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
In addition to everything else that wiggles in the front end, wheel shimmy can be the result of the steering box being loose where it is bolted to the frame.
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10-26-2016, 11:03 PM | #36 | |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
Quote:
A Model A tyre/wheel combination is very similar to motorcycle wheels from the 60's. Back then we did simple static balancing and wrapped non-cored wire solder around the spokes for weights. Worked well at speeds up to 140+mph. Maybe this would suffice for speeds up to 60mph of a typical Model A. Last edited by ian Simpson; 10-26-2016 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Improve clarity |
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10-27-2016, 09:03 AM | #37 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
I've had quite a bit of experience with "Death Wobble" between my three Mod. A s and some of it you probably won't catch by jacking it up and shaking the front end. Like the spring bushings. If they're worn out there's enough tension on the spring to hold everything in place while you shake the wheels. These can be diagnosed visually by inspecting the shackles. If the shackle bolts/studs are not dead center in the "eye" of the spring, the bushings are worn out, Not an expensive fix, but it's annoying with out a spring spreader.
Ditto for the "Torsion rod/bars" (Stabilisers) that go from the ends of the front axle to the ball joint bolted on to the bottom of the bell housing. Just keep looking! There's something loose somewhere and when you find it and fix it, the problem will be solved. Terry |
10-27-2016, 09:21 AM | #38 |
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Re: Wheel balancing and weights
My neighbor has a Snapon spin balance machine and I'm able to balance the wheels (16") and the drums. The wheels are indexed to the drums. I've yet to find a drum that didn't need some help. I also balance my trailer wheels.
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