Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2021, 11:49 AM   #21
marko39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: harpursville ny
Posts: 603
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Can you hook your timing light on #1 and turn Dist. Until you see a spark. This should tell you it's timing is good or 180 off.
marko39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 11:50 AM   #22
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by marko39 View Post
Can you hook your timing light on #1 and turn Dist. Until you see a spark. This should tell you it's timing is good or 180 off.
no timing light old school ear, i will try this with a screwdriver and the bump switch
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-24-2021, 12:20 PM   #23
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

ok just bumped it until i saw spark ...pulled the cap and its on #1. Also eyeballed the pulley dot when the finger pushed off and it was 2" before the pointer and the rotor is at the plug before #1 (not sure that even matters)?
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 12:45 PM   #24
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

anyone else before i tear in to the engine? I hope i screwed up the timing marks cause thats where i am headed first and then on to valve adjustment
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 01:00 PM   #25
flatford8
Senior Member
 
flatford8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lyman,ME.
Posts: 1,926
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bustingear View Post
51 Merc I am set up with #1 at the top and not the bottom . The wires follow the proper order but as you know it is the same
I donít understand how it can be the same? 1-4 passenger side, 5-8 drivers side..... Mark
__________________
I'm thinkin' about crankin'
My ragged ol' truck up
and haulin' myself into town.
Billy Joe Shaver
flatford8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 01:04 PM   #26
mrlaser
Senior Member
 
mrlaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 220
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Another thing to consider, in addition to those ideas already mentioned, is the primary resistance in the coil. This is assuming that you have retained the original 6 volt system. The coils sold by most suppliers are incorrect for this application having a primary resistance of 3.5-4.0 ohms instead of the correct 1.5 ohms. I had a very similar experience when attempting to start my completely rebuilt 8ba v8. The spark was present, but weaker than necessary for ignition. After changing to an Echlin IC-7 coil, which has the 1.5 ohm primary resistance, the engine fired on the first turn of the key. Just a thought.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Coil Testing.jpg (63.8 KB, 21 views)
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 01:31 PM   #27
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,415
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

[QUOTE=Bustingear;1988870]Just took another shot at it.
1. Inspected distributor and it is the one with the extend portion after the gear and looked down in the timing housing and it has the proper guide for that Distributor
/QUOTE]
Then it appears that you are using a stock distributor.
If that is so, what are you using for the vacuum source?

The stock set up uses a carburetor port for proper timing.
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 01:59 PM   #28
Jake dalka
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Middletown, PA
Posts: 15
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Piston can be at the top and be on the completion of the exhaust stroke.....
Two revolutions of the crank to complete the four strokes....
Intake....compression One revolution
Power.....exhaust Second revolution
Timing mark and pointer line up twice in a full cycle
Jake dalka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:10 PM   #29
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatford8 View Post
I donít understand how it can be the same? 1-4 passenger side, 5-8 drivers side..... Mark
The firing order is the same it just moves on the clock and as long as the rotor is at number one TDC could be anywhere on the clock. perplexes some folks.
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:13 PM   #30
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

[QUOTE=51 MERC-CT;1988949]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bustingear View Post
Just took another shot at it.
1. Inspected distributor and it is the one with the extend portion after the gear and looked down in the timing housing and it has the proper guide for that Distributor
/QUOTE]
Then it appears that you are using a stock distributor.
If that is so, what are you using for the vacuum source?

The stock set up uses a carburetor port for proper timing.
One of the carbs has the vac port . I dont have it hooked up yet and read where it can be disengaged to set initial timing. Its just not even getting to the sputter point yet that i thought i needed to worry about it?
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:15 PM   #31
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake dalka View Post
Piston can be at the top and be on the completion of the exhaust stroke.....
Two revolutions of the crank to complete the four strokes....
Intake....compression One revolution
Power.....exhaust Second revolution
Timing mark and pointer line up twice in a full cycle
Of course but always needs to be said
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:25 PM   #32
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 15,883
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Before you start taking things apart, need to check what you are doing. A compression gauge will give you a good indication if the valve clearance is anywhere near correct. If there is a spark and fuel an engine will fire, so something is way off here. You have verified you are using the #1 cylinder on the passenger side as number one? The cylinder numbering for the firing order is 1-4 on passenger side and 5-8 on the driver side. It is correct you can insert the distributor in any position you want if you move the wires in the cap around to match, but why complicate things? If you are using a stock distributor it is not going to work with the carburation you have.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:32 PM   #33
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 7,553
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

I strongly suggest getting the distributor position and plug wires back to factory spec. I know you can get it running with them in just about any position, but if you are going to ask others for help, having them set up correctly helps everyone greatly.

Sometimes it can even make tuning impossible. I had a 327 Corvette that I could not get the advance set where I wanted it because the vacuum can hit the intake manifold, preventing it from being moved enough. I found the distributor was one tooth off and the wires had all been moved one position from where they were supposed to be. The car ran and drove OK, but was, quite frankly, a slug.

Resetting the distributor and positioning the wires properly allowed the advance to be set correctly, which woke the car up tremendously.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:44 PM   #34
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Tore into the timing cover.......lined up tdc and made sure pointer was close to pulley dot then pulled the timing cover off then saw that the slash in the cam timing gear and the dot in the crank gear were aligned. The pointer/dot and the slash/dot are both a little after which means they are aligned so strike that one off.

Really looks like things point towards valve adjustment? I mean does that vacum advance need to be hooked up to even get a sputter out of the engine??
Attached Images
File Type: jpg flat4.jpg (29.5 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg flat5.jpg (32.6 KB, 57 views)

Last edited by Bustingear; 02-24-2021 at 02:56 PM.
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:47 PM   #35
Als48
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 57
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

I agree with Tubman, I think your ignition timing is way off. Especially if your timing by eye appears to be 2" advanced. That is way too far off for the engine to start. Get a timing light and find out where you are, timing wise.

Al Hook
Als48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 02:47 PM   #36
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Before you start taking things apart, need to check what you are doing. A compression gauge will give you a good indication if the valve clearance is anywhere near correct. If there is a spark and fuel an engine will fire, so something is way off here. You have verified you are using the #1 cylinder on the passenger side as number one? The cylinder numbering for the firing order is 1-4 on passenger side and 5-8 on the driver side. It is correct you can insert the distributor in any position you want if you move the wires in the cap around to match, but why complicate things? If you are using a stock distributor it is not going to work with the carburation you have.
regarding the carburetion ... Thought i should be able to at least get a sputter even without the carb/dist vacum hooked up in fact i thought you were supposed to disconnect it to set initial timing?? I mean i am not even getting a pop despite ether spray
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 03:01 PM   #37
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 8,976
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

I believe #1 cyl is different on a flathead than on a SBC.
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2021, 08:09 PM   #38
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 15,883
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bustingear View Post
regarding the carburetion ... Thought i should be able to at least get a sputter even without the carb/dist vacum hooked up in fact i thought you were supposed to disconnect it to set initial timing?? I mean i am not even getting a pop despite ether spray
Compression test will tell you about all you need to know about valve adjustment. If you don't have a gauge think you can borrow one from most auto parts places.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 07:48 AM   #39
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Car has been converted to Pertronix with the new proper coil . New wiring harness and entire car is now 12V
Going with compression test today and going to try and find tdc as if the timing gear had no slash or dot. also going to check and see if dist module eye is aligned properly as well.

Also wanted to mention that rings were replaced and are new. Cylinders were not bored but honed.
Guides and seals were replaced. valves reseated with compound by hand, cam and lifters were not replaced. Everything dropped back in original holes and positions. Did not check valve seats as they are not the adjustable type and really nothing changed. That was an assumption on my part i guess

Last edited by Bustingear; 02-25-2021 at 09:06 AM.
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 11:01 AM   #40
Bustingear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 310
Default Re: Trouble shoot 1950 8Ba initial start up Help

Compression test results , done cold cause i cant get it started. Throttle open ,all plugs out
First group are dry. 2nd after oil squirt
DRY: 1-89,2-70,3-80,4-80,5-75,6-75,7-90,8-80
Oil squirt: 1-92.2-92,3-95,4-92,5-95,6-91,7-95,8-95
Rings were replaced, cylinders honed, valve guides and seals replaced , lifters and cam were not. Thoughts?
Bustingear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39 PM.