The Ford Barn

Ed in Maine · 09-19-2019, 03:46 PM

I have been using the TCP Acrylic Urethane System with their direct to metal epoxy primer, high build primer and finally a sealer before applying the top coat. I do like their products and have had excellent results except for today. The paint does not adhere to the primer in several spots. There are small spots (about 1/16 in. diameter in an area ranging from a half dollar to 2 x 2 in.) where you can see right down to the primer. The top coat paint moves away from the area and will not adhere. Obviously, I put something very bad on top of the primer. The last thing I did before spraying the urethane top coat on the hood and doors was to wipe down the panels with PPG Acryli-Clean DX330 and wipe down with a tac rag (Bondo Tack Cloth #813 3M). I can see the places were I have a problem is where I would have done the wiping. I have never had a problem like this before. Could it be caused by the tac rag? I have always used rubber gloves, never touched the panel with bare hands. There are some panels that are perfect. As luck would have it, they were inside the hood where the engine can enjoy the perfect paint! I did make a conscious effort to wipe down the outside panels where the paint job would be seen.

The panels have two coats on them and I was planning three coats. How can I recover from this, any recommendations? Tomorrow I am going to take one of the hood panels and fine sand the bad area and thoroughly wipe down using DX330 and level the area with a spot putty. I plan to prime the area with a urethane primer in a rattle can that I got from TCP for small repairs. I would think that the primer coat will tell me if I have satisfactorily cleaned the surface.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Ed

J Franklin · 09-19-2019, 03:51 PM

Look up fisheye. Maybe your rags were contaminated. I like to do a final wash with TSP and water before painting.

chrs1961815 · 09-19-2019, 05:24 PM

I have never used that product but my first thought is contamination on the tack rag. Where do you store it when not in use?

JBill · 09-19-2019, 05:32 PM

I always just used an ammonia-based window cleaner before the final coat! Read somewhere that that was what to do, and did it. Seemed to work okay.

rotorwrench · 09-19-2019, 05:38 PM

Fish eyes can come from several contaminant sources. Prep rags or towels, a contaminated tack wipe, or right out of the air. I tell folks to avoid running any internal combustion engine around a paint prep area. Diesel is the worst offender. The exhaust in the air can contaminate a surface.

Fish eye eliminator can be used in very small amounts to keep this to a minimum but it is basically pre-contaminating the paint so that it will lower the surface tension and adhere better. Just a half a cap full will work for a whole quart of mix.

Oils and any liquid forms of silicon or auto wax are the worst offenders to fish eye problems. Clean, clean, and clean it again using fresh cleaning materials.

dbaldwi3 · 09-19-2019, 07:20 PM

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Recently had the same problem I waited till it cured then wet sanded the effected area and sprayed it again no problem the second time. Assumed it was either the tack rag or wax/grease remover

Railcarmover · 09-19-2019, 08:08 PM

it appears you used an auto body tack cloth,some types for furniture have beeswax,that will screw you..Did you drain your compressor?water separator?old air hose?filter at the gun?.. I fish eyed a car real bad using an old shop air hose,the hose had compressor oil build up,not enough to see or smell,just enough to screw up the paint..cheap respray on an ex cop car, did it in a truck shop,not the best conditions.

duke36 · 09-19-2019, 11:00 PM

Did you call TCP and present the problem? Perhaps the DX330 is not compatible ?

J Franklin · 09-20-2019, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke36

Did you call TCP and present the problem? Perhaps the DX330 is not compatible ?

The DX330 is just a solvent and if dried won't be the problem.

Railcarmover · 09-20-2019, 08:40 AM

Did you sand the sealer prior to top coat?

ModelAMike1930 · 09-20-2019, 10:04 AM

Before of using any type of paint to a surface I use wax and grease remover. It is sold in many auto supply stores. I also wash the area before doing anything with dish soap. It removes any grease also.

09-19-2019, 03:46 PM	#1
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Help, Paint Application Problems I have been using the TCP Acrylic Urethane System with their direct to metal epoxy primer, high build primer and finally a sealer before applying the top coat. I do like their products and have had excellent results except for today. The paint does not adhere to the primer in several spots. There are small spots (about 1/16 in. diameter in an area ranging from a half dollar to 2 x 2 in.) where you can see right down to the primer. The top coat paint moves away from the area and will not adhere. Obviously, I put something very bad on top of the primer. The last thing I did before spraying the urethane top coat on the hood and doors was to wipe down the panels with PPG Acryli-Clean DX330 and wipe down with a tac rag (Bondo Tack Cloth #813 3M). I can see the places were I have a problem is where I would have done the wiping. I have never had a problem like this before. Could it be caused by the tac rag? I have always used rubber gloves, never touched the panel with bare hands. There are some panels that are perfect. As luck would have it, they were inside the hood where the engine can enjoy the perfect paint! I did make a conscious effort to wipe down the outside panels where the paint job would be seen. The panels have two coats on them and I was planning three coats. How can I recover from this, any recommendations? Tomorrow I am going to take one of the hood panels and fine sand the bad area and thoroughly wipe down using DX330 and level the area with a spot putty. I plan to prime the area with a urethane primer in a rattle can that I got from TCP for small repairs. I would think that the primer coat will tell me if I have satisfactorily cleaned the surface. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Ed

09-19-2019, 03:51 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems Look up fisheye. Maybe your rags were contaminated. I like to do a final wash with TSP and water before painting.

09-19-2019, 05:24 PM	#3
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems I have never used that product but my first thought is contamination on the tack rag. Where do you store it when not in use? __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

09-19-2019, 05:32 PM	#4
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems I always just used an ammonia-based window cleaner before the final coat! Read somewhere that that was what to do, and did it. Seemed to work okay.

09-19-2019, 05:38 PM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems Fish eyes can come from several contaminant sources. Prep rags or towels, a contaminated tack wipe, or right out of the air. I tell folks to avoid running any internal combustion engine around a paint prep area. Diesel is the worst offender. The exhaust in the air can contaminate a surface. Fish eye eliminator can be used in very small amounts to keep this to a minimum but it is basically pre-contaminating the paint so that it will lower the surface tension and adhere better. Just a half a cap full will work for a whole quart of mix. Oils and any liquid forms of silicon or auto wax are the worst offenders to fish eye problems. Clean, clean, and clean it again using fresh cleaning materials.

09-19-2019, 07:20 PM	#6
dbaldwi3 Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Gulf coast of florida Posts: 66	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Recently had the same problem I waited till it cured then wet sanded the effected area and sprayed it again no problem the second time. Assumed it was either the tack rag or wax/grease remover

09-19-2019, 08:08 PM	#7
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems it appears you used an auto body tack cloth,some types for furniture have beeswax,that will screw you..Did you drain your compressor?water separator?old air hose?filter at the gun?.. I fish eyed a car real bad using an old shop air hose,the hose had compressor oil build up,not enough to see or smell,just enough to screw up the paint..cheap respray on an ex cop car, did it in a truck shop,not the best conditions.

09-19-2019, 11:00 PM	#8
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,414	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems Did you call TCP and present the problem? Perhaps the DX330 is not compatible ?

09-20-2019, 08:40 AM	#10
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems Did you sand the sealer prior to top coat?

09-20-2019, 10:04 AM	#11
ModelAMike1930 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Illinois Posts: 382	Re: Help, Paint Application Problems Before of using any type of paint to a surface I use wax and grease remover. It is sold in many auto supply stores. I also wash the area before doing anything with dish soap. It removes any grease also.