Economical and effective hydraulic brake conversion.

[gdmn852]

Hello, usually a localauromtive glass shop can cut flat glass using yours as a pattern,they normally charge per square inch.As far as the hydraulic brakes I would recommend rebuilding the original setup and cast drums . I have a 31 Roadster with the Boiling conversion, for the 3900$ they could have replaced everything and been money ahead.This will be changed to the Dot 5 fluid before winter, having issues with other cars with brake problems from long storage.The Boiling conversion seems to be a nice kit all parts in one kit, but it is not just bolt on , the kingpins have to be cut and some fitting for backing plates needs to be done.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

It appears that Kevin has either had some bad luck with hydraulics, or has never tried them. Hydraulics are safer than mechanicals, better and easier stopping, really better for highway driving! Very little initial set-up, much less maintenance, etc. The ones most often used are Ford, 1939-48. the Lincoln's are the same diameter, shoe width, and the same drums, they are just Bendix style instead of Wagner, so a softer pedal. They were designed for a much heavier, faster car than the A. If hydraulics weren't good, no modern cars would be using them. By using silicone fluid, DOT-5, you eliminate rusting of the cylinders, the bane of hydraulics. If you buy a kit, they are expensive, how much is your life worth??? If you do it all yourself, not so much. Us hot-rodders have been doing it ourselves for decades!

This is the best advice you're going to get!
Bill

[Terry, NJ]

I am removing the juice brakes from my coupe. Here's what I have for sale, one differential with all brake parts plus it's set up for tube shocks. All the front parts including kingpins, Spare wheel cylinders. All except font drums, and original Ford type shocks, Everything $400 + Shipping ! The parts are used, not worn out!
Terry

[Pete]

Originally Posted by ThosD

I want to make my new to me '30 coupe safe and reliable for driving on public roads; more than just a parade car. I think the Bendix style hydraulic brakes with Lincoln drums are what I want...but OMG, the kit prices I have found are nearly $4K. Is there an economical kit or a Bendix/Lincoln type kit that does not require a change of the hubs?
Same for safety glass kits. Prices range from $450 to almost $800 for a 5 window coupe.

Tom

"Economical", ABSOLUTELY NO! Not going to happen, ever.
"Effective", Yes, if done right.

You need to re-orient your thinking.
The word "economical" can never be associated with anything automotive except maybe a simple wash job.
If you had the scrounging skills of 40 years, a 100K equipped machine shop
and the knowledge of having done the job many times, you could do that conversion TODAY for about 200 bucks.

Make some new friends with antique cars and ride with them. Buy them plenty of beer when day is done and they will definitely let you drive their cars once in awhile. Your wallet will be very happy.

[hardtimes]

“Seems to be nice kit, but (spindles?) have to be cut …etc, etc.
Q: have you ever installed this kit.. no !
Well, I have.
With patience, take my time and with no special equipment…. easy pleasant job with great outcome !

NOTE: someone just mentioned that they will have to install dot 5 (silicone) in their hydraulic system. If it is an old contaminated system… this is a no no !
Warning… wasting $ and time if putting in an old contaminated system !!
Check things out before just jumping into things… which WILL cause worse problems for yourself.

[hardtimes]

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Being money ahead, does NOT mean that you will be SAFETY ahead !
Q:
When you say that you will change your system to dot 5 , what is in the same system NOW ?
If other than dot 5. You would be well served to read up on putting dot5 into a contaminated system !
I think that WE create a LOT of our own hydraulic system ‘problems’, by unknowingly using mismatch poor fitting etc parts and practices !

[gdmn852]

Hello again, on the conversion to dot 5 it doesnÂ’t mix with the other fluids , as I am completely replacing the wheel cylinders ,master and flex hoses , the steel lines will be flushed out , donÂ’t know how old the system is ,brakes are the last thing you want to have fail .The Boling conversion may be the way to go as far as having everything in on kit , but if you have time finding the parts separately maybe less . I believe I had a post on what master cylinder the boiling kit has and apparently it is from 1953 Ford truck , this is mounted along side the battery box that is in the kit .As another post said they have a setup for sale might be the worth looking into it.

[gdmn852]

Also I only know what someone did the the car I currently have did to mount the brake kit, can see they did some grinding on rear perchÂ’s to get the backing plates to fit and also cut the top of kingpin where the mechanical linkage would fit into,however they may have not been the best mechanics around. For example the spent money for the kit but didnÂ’t bother to change out the brake and clutch pedal shaft.Just stating my observation on this car .

[updraught]

With all of the many and varied parts needed to restore a mechanical brake system, my guess is that if everything in the brake system is knackered (most 20+ years ago restorations aren't much chop) then it will probably cost as much as a new hydraulic conversion. Also, I gather that the huge press that the Boling Bros use to press the backing plates has been scrapped.

[john in illinois]

Another hydraulic brake source.
http://www.wilsonweldingandmachine.com/

I have Lincoln/Ford brakes on my model A tudor and flathead powered Roadster.

John

[Pete]

Consider this.
A COMPLETE new disc brake conversion for a model A is half the price of a complete drum brake conversion.

[chrs1961815]

Throwing my two cents into the ring for whatever it is worth. Hydraulic brakes and disc brakes work great on modern cars because they were DESIGNED for it. The parts they use are vigorously tested and pretty good quality so you will not have problems. When you cobble together stuff to convert your A a lot of the stuff is made in China and low quality.

Mechanical brakes are much less likely to go bad than hydraulic brakes. There is just so much more that can go wrong. At the end of the day, properly done mechanicals will work almost just as well, it is the tire size stopping from getting any further improvement.

At a model A shop I frequent a lot we are working on converting a car back to mechanicals from hydraulics. It is not fun! The car had it its brakes go out and fluid has been leaking everywhere.

I'm all for improvements within reason but this is not an improvement for a regular mostly stock car. If you are building a hot rod where pretty much everything but the frame is not stock, go for it.

[updraught]

1936 Chev had gone hydraulic. Here is their take on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYIzWI12T8g
The problem with rods is the movement of the wheels up and down.

[Jim Brierley]

Well, it seems we all have our own opinions! I stand by what I previously wrote, hydraulics are better and safer. The key is, like everything else, they have to be done properly. A dual M/cyl. is a good idea, DOT 5, IMO, is a must for our cars that sit for weeks or months. It is true that DOT 5 and other fluids don't mix, but they are compatible. I know this from my experience at LAPD when we converted our new care in 1982 to DOT 5. The M/cyl, was drained, all others were pressure flushed while being manually pumped, because the two fluids weigh different amounts. The end result was that many dollars were saved because we never had cylinder problems for the life of those cars. When converting an A to hydraulics, all cylinders should be new.

My cars are typical of modified A's, they put out between 80 and 120 HP, have overdrives, and cruise the highways and freeways at 65 MPH. In traffic it is imperative that you can stop quickly from such speeds.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Pete

Consider this.
A COMPLETE new disc brake conversion for a model A is half the price of a complete drum brake conversion.

Where can this kit be obtained?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Where can this kit be obtained?

Any store that is a dealer for Wilwood.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Pete

Any store that is a dealer for Wilwood.

Thanks!

[nkaminar]

I had Wilwood disk brakes on my otherwise stock Model T. I loved them. With the stock brakes on a Model T, you cost to a stop and then apply the brakes. Going down a long steep grade meant using low band which meant 6 mph. With the Wilwood brakes I could keep the car in high band (40 mph) and just ride the brakes down the grade. I could also stop more or less like a modern car using the brakes, although still only two wheel.

[updraught]

The brake drums support the wire wheels. Disc brakes don't, so you'll need later wheels.

[Chris in WNC]

It's like the whitewalls-vs-blackwalls discussion.
Both side are certain they are right and the other side is full of baloney.

Our Town sedan will cruise 60mph all day long and I've never felt unsafe with mechanical brakes (upgraded with cast iron drums). Stops like a champ; we've driven it 12,0000 miles with one brake adjustment and never had the drums off. Hats off to the previous owner for doing the system right, back in the 1990s.

(and all Model As look best with blackwalls) :-)