The Ford Barn

Gary · 03-01-2016, 12:16 PM

I have decided to keep Ford in Ford, so I'm going with a 289 w/C-4 actually 5 speed AOD into the stock 40 Ford pick-up frame. I know I have to drop the wishbone and remove the stock trans mount and tunnel.
Anyone who has done this or is there a thread that has been posted.
Thanks in advance.

TJ · 03-01-2016, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

I have decided to keep Ford in Ford, so I'm going with a 289 w/C-4 actually 5 speed AOD into the stock 40 Ford pick-up frame. I know I have to drop the wishbone and remove the stock trans mount and tunnel.
Anyone who has done this or is there a thread that has been posted.
Thanks in advance.

Go to ; www.chassisengineeringinc. They have all the parts to get you started. Saves you a lot of time and trouble. I've used their parts and did several running gear changes for myself and others. You will need to research the different oil pans for the 289 if you want to retain the stock or a dropped axle. I'm using all the CE parts with an SBC in my '41 pickup with a dropped axle and spit wishbones. Leave me a PM on this site with your phone # and I will call you to give further info.

39topless · 03-01-2016, 12:40 PM

may try this site as well: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/

Ol' Ron · 03-01-2016, 01:05 PM

biggest problem is the front oil sump

Marvin/TN · 03-01-2016, 01:12 PM

It's best if you don't split the wish bone if at all possible. I didn't have to split the wish bone when I put a Chev 350/350 combo in my 46. But Chassis Engineering does have a kit to split it and you only have to move the ends out about 6" and no cutting of the X-Member. I can't post PICs but will E.Mail to anyone that wants them.

rotorwrench · 03-01-2016, 01:53 PM

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The small block Ford is a long engine compared to the old flatty. Many of us on this board have likely been around a street rod or two but the guys on the HAMB are more forgiving than folks on the Barn are. I'm not saying you can't post but this forum is not the HAMB. It's more geared toward traditional upgrades and original cars than the HAMB.

40cpe · 03-01-2016, 03:26 PM

A lot of firewalls have been cut in order to get the front sump behind the crossmember. There are rear sump pans, but they still have the "hump" up front for the oil pump.

And you wonder why there are so many SBCs in the old Fords.

Mart · 03-01-2016, 04:22 PM

I'm reading this with a wry smile on my face. First I'm thinking "Oh no this is the resto biased fordbarn, how will this go down" Then I'm thinking "Well, at least he wants to use a ford motor" but the bit that made me smile was that even a restorer has to accept that people will modify cars and having accepted that, the least amount of modifications, or the closer to stock the better. And a Chevy motor fits the easiest!

Personally I'd leave it stockish or mildly hopped up with old fashioned equipment, but personally If it has to go OHV I'd rather see a Chevy motor in there with minimum mods than major butchery to get a Ford motor in there.

Mart.

39topless · 03-01-2016, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

I'm reading this with a wry smile on my face. First I'm thinking "Oh no this is the resto biased fordbarn, how will this go down" Then I'm thinking "Well, at least he wants to use a ford motor" but the bit that made me smile was that even a restorer has to accept that people will modify cars and having accepted that, the least amount of modifications, or the closer to stock the better. And a Chevy motor fits the easiest!

Personally I'd leave it stockish or mildly hopped up with old fashioned equipment, but personally If it has to go OHV I'd rather see a Chevy motor in there with minimum mods than major butchery to get a Ford motor in there.

Mart.

HERETIC!!!!!!

Henry Floored · 03-01-2016, 10:45 PM

Wait a second here guys. The 289 into 40 pickup should be a very doable thing.

The pickup frame has a deep front crossmember which will clear the 289 or any SBF front mount oil pump. There is no need to hack firewalls or anything else.

The SBF when coupled to a C4 automatic is most slender engine/trans package you can get. No cutting of the X-member like the nasty and wide GM trans.

Go for this swap. You'll be fine. If you need to shorten the engine up use '94-'95 Mustang or T-bird water pump and front cover with serpentine belt.

For the guys that think you have to hack the firewall I say it is much easier and nicer to put a deep crossmember up front and keep the engine where it should be.

estout81 · 03-01-2016, 11:08 PM

I put a 289 in a '40 Ford back in the '60s without cutting the firewall or cutting the wishbone. This was before rear sump pans were available and all the other fluff for Ford engines. Oh, took out a 283 chevy! Made my own rear sump pan. Still have the pan!

Mart · 03-02-2016, 03:46 AM

41 pickups have the deeper crossmember. Don't think the 40s got it. The deeper crossmember came with the intro of the 6 cyl for 41.

Henry Floored · 03-02-2016, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

41 pickups have the deeper crossmember. Don't think the 40s got it. The deeper crossmember came with the intro of the 6 cyl for 41.

Yes exactly Mart. If one were to choose a SBF swap into a '35-'40 passenger car dropping the front crossmember is the best way to go. It simply eliminates the problem of the oil pump clearance issue.

One could do this by fabricating a new deeper center section of the crossmember or by sectioning the center out of a '42-'48 and insert it in place of the more shallow stock crossmember.

Of course you would de- arch the front spring to maintain proper ride height. This is a much better solution than whacking the firewall like many did to put SBF's in or whacking the X-member like most do to put a GM automatic in.

The last key is simply to use the short front accessory drive like found on 5.0 V8's in the 90's. These include Mustangs, T-birds, Cougars, Explorers and Mountaineers. So compact is that system that you will find that it is shorter than the vaunted sbc.

With the above front dress you will be able to walk into any parts store and buy a replacement water pump.

TomT/Williamsburg · 03-02-2016, 08:17 AM

I agree with all that has been said. Just design this setup so you can drop the tranny from underneath without having to pull the whole motor and trans combo out the front. I have been down that road and it is not fun. Of course, more chassis mods will be needed to do this but the C4 is quite small and minimal or less mods to the frame will be needed vs a SBC/auto combo .....

I am surprised this thread is still up on this board - probably better served going to the HAMB with this.

tub1 · 03-03-2016, 09:04 PM

I understand the resistance to the engine swap ,but better on the road with a latter motor than laying dead rusting away in a field ,and just my thoughts id go the chevy as no damage to car if some thought is used ,I know if I ever get to my 40 pick up project that's what will happen

Henry Floored · 03-03-2016, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tub1

I understand the resistance to the engine swap ,but better on the road with a latter motor than laying dead rusting away in a field ,and just my thoughts id go the chevy as no damage to car if some thought is used ,I know if I ever get to my 40 pick up project that's what will happen

I disagree if you go automatic. You'll have to hack on the X-member. The Ford C4 is much slimmer.

Mart · 03-04-2016, 02:40 AM

I was thinking of vintage 283 on an adaptor bolted to the 3 speed. That really would require minimal hackery. But I realise this is not what the OP is thinking.

Mart.

Marvin/TN · 03-04-2016, 03:08 AM

I didn't have to cut the X member to put a Chev 350/350 combo eng and trans in my 46, no firewall cutting either.

scooder · 03-04-2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estout81

I put a 289 in a '40 Ford back in the '60s without cutting the firewall or cutting the wishbone. This was before rear sump pans were available and all the other fluff for Ford engines. Oh, took out a 283 chevy! Made my own rear sump pan. Still have the pan!

This right here is the answer your after, it can be done without chopping the car about apparently. This is good news.
The small block Ford can be shortened up close to sbc length, I've seen it done in the past. And it's narrower and the trans is slimmer and it's lighter and it's a Ford!
But is the trans a C4 or an AOD or a five speed automatic trans?
I rarely disagree with Mart but I'm glad you ain't putting a brand X in there. I get the early sbc on an adapter to the Ford trans, plus a adapter front mount that bolts on the same motor mounts, that would be easy and less intrusive, to easy to frag the trans. AND it's a ch#vy!
I'd keep it flathead personally, but it's your car.
Martin.

estout81 · 03-04-2016, 03:57 PM

I don't know why everybody thinks it's so hard to put a SBF in a Ford. As others have said it is easy to go the SBC route. That's what I did to my '40 back in '64. Was not "brand loyal" then, just wanted to go fast. By the mid '60s those 289 Fords were kicking butt! Had to have one! Had run the 283/4bbl with stock Ford drive train hard for three years. Late '67 got a 289 and worked some magic on it and with a transmission adapter was on the road again. Then went through two '39 transmissions in quick order! Had to go open drive! Used a Dana 44 rear end and T86 B/W three speed transmission. Made brackets to mount the Dana to the Ford springs and cut the transmission mounting pad off the transmission and with a 1/4 inch thick piece of hard rubber between transmission and center section of frame, PERFECT! Another piece of rubber on top with a steel strap and all was good. Ran this thing HARD for several years with NO breakage. You just have to think out of the box! The SBC route is just too easy! BORING!

03-01-2016, 12:16 PM	#1
Gary Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Emeryville, near Oakland and the Sf Bay Bridge Posts: 133	289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I have decided to keep Ford in Ford, so I'm going with a 289 w/C-4 actually 5 speed AOD into the stock 40 Ford pick-up frame. I know I have to drop the wishbone and remove the stock trans mount and tunnel. Anyone who has done this or is there a thread that has been posted. Thanks in advance.

03-01-2016, 12:40 PM	#3
39topless Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,027	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame may try this site as well: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/

03-01-2016, 01:05 PM	#4
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame biggest problem is the front oil sump

03-01-2016, 01:12 PM	#5
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame It's best if you don't split the wish bone if at all possible. I didn't have to split the wish bone when I put a Chev 350/350 combo in my 46. But Chassis Engineering does have a kit to split it and you only have to move the ends out about 6" and no cutting of the X-Member. I can't post PICs but will E.Mail to anyone that wants them.

03-01-2016, 01:53 PM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The small block Ford is a long engine compared to the old flatty. Many of us on this board have likely been around a street rod or two but the guys on the HAMB are more forgiving than folks on the Barn are. I'm not saying you can't post but this forum is not the HAMB. It's more geared toward traditional upgrades and original cars than the HAMB.

03-01-2016, 03:26 PM	#7
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame A lot of firewalls have been cut in order to get the front sump behind the crossmember. There are rear sump pans, but they still have the "hump" up front for the oil pump. And you wonder why there are so many SBCs in the old Fords.

03-01-2016, 04:22 PM	#8
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I'm reading this with a wry smile on my face. First I'm thinking "Oh no this is the resto biased fordbarn, how will this go down" Then I'm thinking "Well, at least he wants to use a ford motor" but the bit that made me smile was that even a restorer has to accept that people will modify cars and having accepted that, the least amount of modifications, or the closer to stock the better. And a Chevy motor fits the easiest! Personally I'd leave it stockish or mildly hopped up with old fashioned equipment, but personally If it has to go OHV I'd rather see a Chevy motor in there with minimum mods than major butchery to get a Ford motor in there. Mart.

03-01-2016, 10:45 PM	#10
Henry Floored Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 583	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame Wait a second here guys. The 289 into 40 pickup should be a very doable thing. The pickup frame has a deep front crossmember which will clear the 289 or any SBF front mount oil pump. There is no need to hack firewalls or anything else. The SBF when coupled to a C4 automatic is most slender engine/trans package you can get. No cutting of the X-member like the nasty and wide GM trans. Go for this swap. You'll be fine. If you need to shorten the engine up use '94-'95 Mustang or T-bird water pump and front cover with serpentine belt. For the guys that think you have to hack the firewall I say it is much easier and nicer to put a deep crossmember up front and keep the engine where it should be.

03-01-2016, 11:08 PM	#11
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I put a 289 in a '40 Ford back in the '60s without cutting the firewall or cutting the wishbone. This was before rear sump pans were available and all the other fluff for Ford engines. Oh, took out a 283 chevy! Made my own rear sump pan. Still have the pan!

03-02-2016, 03:46 AM	#12
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame 41 pickups have the deeper crossmember. Don't think the 40s got it. The deeper crossmember came with the intro of the 6 cyl for 41.

03-02-2016, 08:17 AM	#14
TomT/Williamsburg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 2,654	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I agree with all that has been said. Just design this setup so you can drop the tranny from underneath without having to pull the whole motor and trans combo out the front. I have been down that road and it is not fun. Of course, more chassis mods will be needed to do this but the C4 is quite small and minimal or less mods to the frame will be needed vs a SBC/auto combo ..... I am surprised this thread is still up on this board - probably better served going to the HAMB with this.

03-03-2016, 09:04 PM	#15
tub1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: tasmania Posts: 221	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I understand the resistance to the engine swap ,but better on the road with a latter motor than laying dead rusting away in a field ,and just my thoughts id go the chevy as no damage to car if some thought is used ,I know if I ever get to my 40 pick up project that's what will happen

03-04-2016, 02:40 AM	#17
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I was thinking of vintage 283 on an adaptor bolted to the 3 speed. That really would require minimal hackery. But I realise this is not what the OP is thinking. Mart.

03-04-2016, 03:08 AM	#18
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I didn't have to cut the X member to put a Chev 350/350 combo eng and trans in my 46, no firewall cutting either.

03-04-2016, 03:57 PM	#20
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 289+C-4 into 40 Pick up frame I don't know why everybody thinks it's so hard to put a SBF in a Ford. As others have said it is easy to go the SBC route. That's what I did to my '40 back in '64. Was not "brand loyal" then, just wanted to go fast. By the mid '60s those 289 Fords were kicking butt! Had to have one! Had run the 283/4bbl with stock Ford drive train hard for three years. Late '67 got a 289 and worked some magic on it and with a transmission adapter was on the road again. Then went through two '39 transmissions in quick order! Had to go open drive! Used a Dana 44 rear end and T86 B/W three speed transmission. Made brackets to mount the Dana to the Ford springs and cut the transmission mounting pad off the transmission and with a 1/4 inch thick piece of hard rubber between transmission and center section of frame, PERFECT! Another piece of rubber on top with a steel strap and all was good. Ran this thing HARD for several years with NO breakage. You just have to think out of the box! The SBC route is just too easy! BORING!