The Ford Barn

leadpot · 03-10-2016, 08:56 AM

Getting a strong gas smell inside my 29 tudor & believe it is coming from the gas gauge. The steering wheel bracket has been converted to a 31 and there is no sign of any leakage there, same with the shutoff valve & fuel line connections. Have checked them all by smell and by rubbing a tissue on them for signs of moisture. Do not get any smell in the engine compartment either, carb not leaking. That said also cannot see any sign of a leak around the gauge itself. Also eliminated the gas cap itself by a temporary seal around the cap.

What happens - When tank is full with liquid around the gauge the fumes are constant, when lower in the tank only get fumes when the gas sloshes around in the tank, like when fast stop or start. Very irritating and wife often doesn't like to ride.

What I have done - Have had the gauge out a dozen times & have cleaned / polished all the sealing surfaces. Have tried rubber gaskets, cork gaskets, doubled the first cork gasket, tried with fuel proof gasket sealer, mostly without sealer etc. Have gone through multiple sets of gaskets & new glass. have studied the assembly pictures & am confident it is going together correctly. Am out of ideas and hoping someone can give me give me some fix or tell me what I'm overlooking.

1Tudoor · 03-10-2016, 10:04 AM

Maybe from the firewall forward ?
Just be careful of diagnosing gas fumes --good idea to disconnect batt

Fred K-OR · 03-10-2016, 10:12 AM

Do you have a leak in your upper gas tank? Maybe where you cannot see it without getting under it?

richsfords · 03-10-2016, 10:31 AM

just fixed the same problem, always a slight smell of gas and never could find the leak.

took the gas gage out and found a gasket the PO installed with a tear at the top, every time I would fill up or the gas sloshed it would seep out, 5 cent gasket fix it.

Bob Bidonde · 03-10-2016, 10:51 AM

Some points to consider:
>Gas tank is vented to the atmosphere via the gas tank cap. When the tank is full or near full, gas fume leakage will be at the maximum;
>Carburetor bowl is also vented to the atmosphere. Make sure this vent hole in the upper casting is open, or gas leakage out of the throat will be certain as the carburetor warms up;
>Fumes will permeate the garage down low, so its a good idea to open the garage door now and then;
>It is a very bad idea to store a Model A in heated garage where there is a pilot light on the heater;
>When the windshield is open over the gas cap, fumes get into the car;
>It is a pain in the derriere to tighten the gas gauge, so it might weep and or leak;
>When parking in the garage after a run, it is a good idea to run the engine with the gas valve OFF to empty gas from the carburetor bowl so it will not drip onto the floor;
>Occasionally feel the gas shutoff valve. If it is wet, the valve needs some TLC or replacement with a new one;
>Gas lines made of copper are not good because copper work hardens from vibration and will crack;
>Rubber hose joints in the gas lines are a bad practice because they are extra leaks points, and because rubber fuel lines have a finite life and fail without warning.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT, BUT KEEP AN EYE ON IT BECAUSE IT WILL EVENTUALLY MALFUCNTION!

Y-Blockhead · 03-10-2016, 12:19 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bob bidonde

>when the windshield is open over the gas cap, fumes get into the car;

I hate it when that happens, nice warm day, open the windshield and get GASSED.

[/quote]

Mitch//pa · 03-10-2016, 11:27 AM

Use an HC detector to locate and pinpoint the leak exactly in 15 seconds or less. Most garages have them, the emissions gas analyzer for the tail pipe also utilizes it...

FrankWest · 03-10-2016, 11:52 AM

If you suspect the gas gauge, can you take the gas gauge out and leave it out for a few days just to see if the problem smell goes away.

SAJ · 03-10-2016, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

If you suspect the gas gauge, can you take the gas gauge out and leave it out for a few days just to see if the problem smell goes away.

HI Frank. I have been wrestling with this suggestion. Removing the gas gauge will leave a large hole in the dash straight through into the petrol. Is this what you mean? Or maybe your car is different from a 29 and has a remote tank and gauge?
SAJ in NZ
Just realised you might be joking. Apologies if you were.

FrankWest · 03-10-2016, 04:10 PM

If you can isolate the problem by removing the suspected culprit then try it.

Y-Blockhead · 03-10-2016, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAJ

HI Frank. I have been wrestling with this suggestion. Removing the gas gauge will leave a large hole in the dash straight through into the petrol. Is this what you mean? Or maybe your car is different from a 29 and has a remote tank and gauge?
SAJ in NZ
Just realised you might be joking. Apologies if you were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWest

My car a 1933 ford has NO working fuel gauge.
It is supposed to a hydro-static fuel sending unit. Which supposedly didn't work right even back in 1933.

Not sure how the gas gauge is hooked up.
You would have to either add a cap or a section of tube to take the fuel gauge off line. Or if that is not possible I would try replacing the fuel gauge. Because you begin taking everything apart on your fuel line.
Did you smell this petrol smell before you put the fuel gauge in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by forever4

My 32 fordor also has a hydrostatic system and it works great after I originally set it up. Most people don't have a clue how they work.

Like most things, they have to be installed correctly, and with neither air leaks nor air blockages. Then they are bulletproof. I have complete information about it on my web site.

That's all well and good but this thread is about a 28-31 Fuel gauge which is different than your '33. Your fuel tank isn't even in the cowl is it? To prevent confusion, let's stick with the OP's question please.

David Williams · 03-10-2016, 07:24 PM

I had a similar problem with my 29 AA, turned out there was a pin hole leak behind the tank up high between tank and fire wall. l Had to use a mirror and flash light to find it. Was hard to prep but fixed it with JB weld.

FrankWest · 03-10-2016, 04:40 PM

If you can't leave it out, consider replacing the gas gauge, Especially if the problem began after you installed it. It could be a defective gauge?

H. L. Chauvin · 03-10-2016, 12:58 PM

One (1) sincere suggestion already experienced many times:

Many at our age either smoked or were around tobacco smoke when young and never realized our sniffer was severely damaged until in the presence of young people who never smoked.

You could try getting a young kid to sniff around and you will be surprised how well they can pin point the origin of not just odors ...................... also, these younger kids can far more accurately pinpoint locations of noises such as knocks, squeaks, and hisses.

I remember hearing once of a Gaseous Cigar smoking Barber in a nearby town who only had old smoking guys for customers who could not hear well and could not smell well .......... young guys never came in his shop and he never knew why.

Hope this helps. Life is so simple.

1crosscut · 03-10-2016, 01:21 PM

Are you using a wrench specifically made for the fuel gauge? If you don't have one perhaps you are not getting it tight enough.
Leave the dash panel off and fill the tank so you can get a good look all around the gauge to check for seepage.
If you have the gaskets in the correct places and it still leaks I would think you have a flaw of some type on one of the mating surfaces.

leadpot · 03-10-2016, 04:35 PM

Hi Crosscut, I do have the gauge wrenches, have double checked to make sure nut screws in far enough

Bruce · 03-10-2016, 01:30 PM

With your hands nice and clean, feel around the steering wheel bracket where it attaches to the bottom of the gas tank.
Give your pinkies a sniff.
If you smell gas on 'em, you problem is the bracket. It is an 85-year-old problem.
Sometimes you can fix it with a coat of tank sealer. Other times you have to have the bracket re-soldered.

Y-Blockhead · 03-10-2016, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce

With your hands nice and clean, feel around the steering wheel bracket where it attaches to the bottom of the gas tank.
Give your pinkies a sniff.
If you smell gas on 'em, you problem is the bracket. It is an 85-year-old problem.
Sometimes you can fix it with a coat of tank sealer. Other times you have to have the bracket re-soldered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leadpot

The steering wheel bracket has been converted to a 31 and there is no sign of any leakage there, same with the shutoff valve & fuel line connections. Have checked them all by smell and by rubbing a tissue on them for signs of moisture.

Good suggestion but I think he has it covered with the addition of the '31 mount.

barnstuf · 03-10-2016, 02:14 PM

When installing the gas gauge I find the best gasket set is the cork gasket set with one or two brass slip washers. Without the brass washer a gasket can be pinched and leak. Could that be your problem?

23hack · 03-10-2016, 04:58 PM

Be careful WHO you listen to. I have done four hydrostatic gauges and all were just dandy. The sending units can be repaired easily, gauges too.

03-10-2016, 08:56 AM	#1
leadpot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Blanchester, Ohio Posts: 109	Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Getting a strong gas smell inside my 29 tudor & believe it is coming from the gas gauge. The steering wheel bracket has been converted to a 31 and there is no sign of any leakage there, same with the shutoff valve & fuel line connections. Have checked them all by smell and by rubbing a tissue on them for signs of moisture. Do not get any smell in the engine compartment either, carb not leaking. That said also cannot see any sign of a leak around the gauge itself. Also eliminated the gas cap itself by a temporary seal around the cap. What happens - When tank is full with liquid around the gauge the fumes are constant, when lower in the tank only get fumes when the gas sloshes around in the tank, like when fast stop or start. Very irritating and wife often doesn't like to ride. What I have done - Have had the gauge out a dozen times & have cleaned / polished all the sealing surfaces. Have tried rubber gaskets, cork gaskets, doubled the first cork gasket, tried with fuel proof gasket sealer, mostly without sealer etc. Have gone through multiple sets of gaskets & new glass. have studied the assembly pictures & am confident it is going together correctly. Am out of ideas and hoping someone can give me give me some fix or tell me what I'm overlooking.

03-10-2016, 10:04 AM	#2
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Maybe from the firewall forward ? Just be careful of diagnosing gas fumes --good idea to disconnect batt

03-10-2016, 10:12 AM	#3
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Do you have a leak in your upper gas tank? Maybe where you cannot see it without getting under it? __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

03-10-2016, 10:31 AM	#4
richsfords Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 140	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes just fixed the same problem, always a slight smell of gas and never could find the leak. took the gas gage out and found a gasket the PO installed with a tear at the top, every time I would fill up or the gas sloshed it would seep out, 5 cent gasket fix it. __________________ *Richard in New Bern.* *When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it” - Henry Ford***

03-10-2016, 10:51 AM	#5
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,463	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Some points to consider: >Gas tank is vented to the atmosphere via the gas tank cap. When the tank is full or near full, gas fume leakage will be at the maximum; >Carburetor bowl is also vented to the atmosphere. Make sure this vent hole in the upper casting is open, or gas leakage out of the throat will be certain as the carburetor warms up; >Fumes will permeate the garage down low, so its a good idea to open the garage door now and then; >It is a very bad idea to store a Model A in heated garage where there is a pilot light on the heater; >When the windshield is open over the gas cap, fumes get into the car; >It is a pain in the derriere to tighten the gas gauge, so it might weep and or leak; >When parking in the garage after a run, it is a good idea to run the engine with the gas valve OFF to empty gas from the carburetor bowl so it will not drip onto the floor; >Occasionally feel the gas shutoff valve. If it is wet, the valve needs some TLC or replacement with a new one; >Gas lines made of copper are not good because copper work hardens from vibration and will crack; >Rubber hose joints in the gas lines are a bad practice because they are extra leaks points, and because rubber fuel lines have a finite life and fail without warning. IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT, BUT KEEP AN EYE ON IT BECAUSE IT WILL EVENTUALLY MALFUCNTION! __________________ Bob Bidonde

03-10-2016, 11:27 AM	#7
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Use an HC detector to locate and pinpoint the leak exactly in 15 seconds or less. Most garages have them, the emissions gas analyzer for the tail pipe also utilizes it... Last edited by Mitch//pa; 03-10-2016 at 12:59 PM.

03-10-2016, 11:52 AM	#8
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes If you suspect the gas gauge, can you take the gas gauge out and leave it out for a few days just to see if the problem smell goes away.

03-10-2016, 04:10 PM	#10
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes If you can isolate the problem by removing the suspected culprit then try it. Last edited by FrankWest; 03-11-2016 at 10:51 AM.

03-10-2016, 07:24 PM	#12
David Williams Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kingsport, Tennessee Posts: 5	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes I had a similar problem with my 29 AA, turned out there was a pin hole leak behind the tank up high between tank and fire wall. l Had to use a mirror and flash light to find it. Was hard to prep but fixed it with JB weld.

03-10-2016, 04:40 PM	#13
FrankWest Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3,005	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes If you can't leave it out, consider replacing the gas gauge, Especially if the problem began after you installed it. It could be a defective gauge? Last edited by FrankWest; 03-11-2016 at 10:52 AM.

03-10-2016, 12:58 PM	#14
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes One (1) sincere suggestion already experienced many times: Many at our age either smoked or were around tobacco smoke when young and never realized our sniffer was severely damaged until in the presence of young people who never smoked. You could try getting a young kid to sniff around and you will be surprised how well they can pin point the origin of not just odors ...................... also, these younger kids can far more accurately pinpoint locations of noises such as knocks, squeaks, and hisses. I remember hearing once of a Gaseous Cigar smoking Barber in a nearby town who only had old smoking guys for customers who could not hear well and could not smell well .......... young guys never came in his shop and he never knew why. Hope this helps. Life is so simple. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 03-10-2016 at 01:01 PM. Reason: typo

03-10-2016, 01:21 PM	#15
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,909	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Are you using a wrench specifically made for the fuel gauge? If you don't have one perhaps you are not getting it tight enough. Leave the dash panel off and fill the tank so you can get a good look all around the gauge to check for seepage. If you have the gaskets in the correct places and it still leaks I would think you have a flaw of some type on one of the mating surfaces. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

03-10-2016, 04:35 PM	#16
leadpot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Blanchester, Ohio Posts: 109	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Hi Crosscut, I do have the gauge wrenches, have double checked to make sure nut screws in far enough

03-10-2016, 01:30 PM	#17
Bruce Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sun City West, AZ Posts: 489	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes With your hands nice and clean, feel around the steering wheel bracket where it attaches to the bottom of the gas tank. Give your pinkies a sniff. If you smell gas on 'em, you problem is the bracket. It is an 85-year-old problem. Sometimes you can fix it with a coat of tank sealer. Other times you have to have the bracket re-soldered.

03-10-2016, 02:14 PM	#19
barnstuf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 2,840	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes When installing the gas gauge I find the best gasket set is the cork gasket set with one or two brass slip washers. Without the brass washer a gasket can be pinched and leak. Could that be your problem?

03-10-2016, 04:58 PM	#20
23hack Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 52	Re: Going Crazy Smelling Gas Fumes Be careful WHO you listen to. I have done four hydrostatic gauges and all were just dandy. The sending units can be repaired easily, gauges too.