The Ford Barn

flipp · 02-14-2014, 06:33 PM

Guys,

I bought my Model A out of state.

I need to register it in California.

I just got back from DMV and my Model A didn't pass inspection because the engine serial number didn't match the Title Certificate. So, the DMV referred me to the local CHP office for further inspection. I have an appointment next week with CHP.

Question/s:

Is it unusual for the engine to have a different VIN number than the chassis on a Model A?

Does anyone here have any experience in this area?

I still need for DMV to assign my YOM plates (after it passes inspection).. Dang!!

California Sucks!!!

CarlG · 02-14-2014, 06:38 PM

Most Model A's these days have had the engine changed out at one time or another, therefore the frame # and the engine # won't match like they did when they came from the factory.

On mine, the engine # matches the title, but it is obvious to anyone that knows Model A's that the engine # is not a factory stamped number.

Here in Alaska, when I went to register my PU, they took the California title with narry a wobble. 15 minutes and $200 and I was out of there with my new Alaska "Collector Car" plates.

flipp · 02-14-2014, 06:43 PM

Thanks CarlG.. I agree. I think the engine has been replaced. But weird thing is that the out of state (Colorado in this case) title certificate shows a different VIN number on it.

Is that going to be a problem when CHP inspects it?

shuttlebuggy · 02-14-2014, 06:47 PM

Sent you a PM

Skibb · 02-14-2014, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipp

Guys,

I bought my Model A out of state.

I need to register it in California.

I just got back from DMV and my Model A didn't pass inspection because the engine serial number didn't match the Title Certificate. So, the DMV referred me to the local CHP office for further inspection. I have an appointment next week with CHP.

Question/s:

Is it unusual for the engine to have a different VIN number than the chassis on a Model A?

Does anyone here have any experience in this area?

I still need for DMV to assign my YOM plates (after it passes inspection).. Dang!!

California Sucks!!!

I had the same issue twice in Florida. I asked my local club for advice. Your closest club can tell you what works in Calif. Good Luck.

silversink · 02-14-2014, 07:54 PM

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This is the reason I keep the old engine in the back of the shop, I have to go thru this very thing changing the title from Washington to Oregon. Can't wait as the DMV says we have ways to solve these title change problems---don't know if this is good or bad.

1930artdeco · 02-14-2014, 08:03 PM

This is what I did when I registered my car from Oregon to Ca. I went down and when they asked about the VIN I explained that the car does not have a VIN number and that they used the engine number. In my case it was registered in Oregon and they installed a sticker in the door jamb with that number. So that is what they used. I DID NOT tell then where the frame number was as I did not want to lift the body.

The DMV just doesn't know there job when it comes to these cars (sorry to anyone who works for DMV here). You will have to educate them unless you find someone who remembers these cars when new.

Mike

al's28/33 · 02-14-2014, 08:51 PM

I showed them the engine stamp # and said this is all I got! Plus I brought my "A" books that detailed the engine stamp # and had the guy read a few highlighted lines and he thought a little then passed me!

Ron W · 02-14-2014, 09:03 PM

In Maine, made sure the engine number matched the paper work. I have no idea what it says on the frame. Ron W

Slowplane · 02-14-2014, 09:05 PM

The first rule when dealing with the California DMV is..... DON'T!!

always use, or, at least, talk to a DMV service. These are private companies that are savvy to the DMV nuances, and, for a small fee, handle your paperwork for you.
When I lived in California, and was buying and restoring out-of-state or country cars and motorcycles, I found them invaluable. Basically they will help you not to "put yer foot in it", as so often happens when dealing with government agencies.

PC/SR · 02-14-2014, 09:55 PM

Dealing with Calif DMV and the CHP worked out for me because the CHP guy liked old cars and was much more interested in talking about the car than in doing the paperwork so he OKed it with just making a new registration plate he rivited on. I had no paper whatsoever to start with.
However, Slowplane's advice to get a DMV service assistant is good advice if things go sideways. They are usually former DMV employees and know the rules and procedures better that you ever will.
I suggest you let the CHP guy look at it and see what he does. It might work out. If not, search the web for a Service in SoCal.
Just remember that they want the registration money so ultimately it can be done.

ronn · 02-14-2014, 10:13 PM

Never heard of having to inspect in Cali............ am wondering what route you've gone?
Have sold "paper" to Cali and never an inspection-one of the easiest states.
Slow has it right, when you don't know what you are doing......... use an agency.

Brobrian · 02-15-2014, 12:12 AM

I live in CA, and had exactly the same experience. It took a while. The first step was to get the CHP to install a vin plate on the door jam. Then head back to the DMV. Clear sailing after that.

In my case there was an additional step because the supervisor at the DMV didn't know the rules for old cars. She said that since mine was a pickup it had to be registered as a commercial vehicle and thus have a tare established. So, I had to go to the local dump and have them give me a tare certificate before the DMV would register the pickup. Shouldn't be an issue with coupes and sedans.

I have to agree with the post about using another agency rather that the DMV. My neighbor uses AAA. I'm not insure with them, but after getting the runaround from the DMV, I'll go another route next time.

denis4x4 · 02-15-2014, 12:31 AM

Learned years ago that when the body is off the frame, call a local law enforcement agency and pay $25 for a VIN verification certificate that you can use later to register the A. There are some DMV personel that know that Model A's have a frame number and that's what they want to register the car. Too, I always clean up the frame where the number is stamped and use white-out to highlight the numbers and take photos.

I understand that this isn't a solution for somebody buying a finished car, but it helps if you're doing a restoration on a car with dubious paperwork or doing a bonded title.

TerryH · 02-15-2014, 01:48 AM

I also live in S. Calif., and when I bought my Model A out of state about 8 years ago, a good friend suggested I use our local AAA office...... Which I did, and they had a man there that specialized in registering old cars. He was very helpful and handled the whole process without dealing with a DMV drone. Not sure it would be that easy with your situation but you might try asking them. The office I used was in Newport Beach.

Neil Mylar LakewoodCA · 02-15-2014, 03:12 AM

Flipp,
Don't go to the CHP unless you want them to put a tag on your door.
Since the motor number is different, they will require you to remove the body or they will register it with a DMV or a CHP number, not a Model A number.

I can recommend a service and I can give you some options on some things to do.

Neil
[email protected]

big job · 02-15-2014, 05:16 AM

Ya gotta be kidding. Dont tell me Ca. is also taking stuip pills? Could be worse, here
in Taxachusetts they think they are still in the civil war. Me on a fixed income spent
out of whats left of my savings for my last ride a 1923 Ford. Of course there's no
title, but I got all paper work from the seller on official state issued noterized Conn. stationary. So dumb & the dumbers want a bill of sale from the origional owner, "that
was planted" in 1943, and I'm not a grave digger. I will not buy some $800 title
either. They can go kiss my ass, the car runs perfectly with skull & bone plates, from
my pickup. dont tell me conseqences, I'm a retired police sgt. Stay tune'ed, If I do
get caught I promise I shall be on national Tv. and expose these dispicable RMV
who make their own rules (overnite). Another RMV stupidity, is thousands upon
thousand Authorized Reman. Ford engines were installed. Oh going back to if I
get caught= Its been one year now for the Boston bomber, still gettin fed watchin
tv gets clean clothes while many inocent people now with no arms and legs and dead. So the better not screw with this old man.

Rex_A_Lott · 02-15-2014, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryH

I also live in S. Calif., and when I bought my Model A out of state about 8 years ago, a good friend suggested I use our local AAA office...... Which I did, and they had a man there that specialized in registering old cars. He was very helpful and handled the whole process without dealing with a DMV drone. Not sure it would be that easy with your situation but you might try asking them. The office I used was in Newport Beach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Mylar LakewoodCA

Flipp,
Don't go to the CHP unless you want them to put a tag on your door.
Since the motor number is different, they will require you to remove the body or they will register it with a DMV or a CHP number, not a Model A number.

I can recommend a service and I can give you some options on some things to do.

Neil
[email protected]

I cant really help you, but to me , these two seem to be the path I would take. This is one area of the Model A experience where you dont want to "learn as you go". Screw up the title and it will follow you as long as you own the car. Good Luck!!

Patrick L. · 02-15-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipp

Thanks CarlG.. I agree. I think the engine has been replaced. But weird thing is that the out of state (Colorado in this case) title certificate shows a different VIN number on it.

Is that going to be a problem when CHP inspects it?

So, are you saying that the engine number doesn't match the frame number doesn't match the title VIN ?

DrinkMan · 02-15-2014, 09:46 AM

I hate to brag, but reading all these really makes me appreciate my experience. I walked in with bill-of-sale, out of state title, and fingers crossed. The Ga DOT clerk, laughed, handed me back the title, said for old classic cars the bill-of-sale will do and asked if I had a picture of the car to show her. She complimented me on the color and asked me questions while the paper work was printing. Handed me back everything ready to hit the road and told me to bring the car by sometime. She even called over co-workers to look at my cell phone picture. Glad I live in rural Ga.

zzlegend · 02-15-2014, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Mylar LakewoodCA

Flipp,
Don't go to the CHP unless you want them to put a tag on your door.
Since the motor number is different, they will require you to remove the body or they will register it with a DMV or a CHP number, not a Model A number.

I can recommend a service and I can give you some options on some things to do.

Neil
[email protected]

I second this. Drop Neil an email.

just plain bill · 02-15-2014, 12:21 PM

I own a Lakes Modified, It is the front 1/2 of a 26 or 27 T touring sitting on a set of T kit car rails shortened and narrowed. I called an old friend and he gave me the title (pink slip) for a 1926 T coupe. I stamped the number from the pink onto a piece of brass plate which I riveted onto the frame by the firewall, drivers side. I have lights, no horn, no wipers. I went to local AAA of which I am a member although I do not have AAA insurance. A very nice young lady came out to the parking lot where the car sat on the trailer. She wrote down the number on the plate which was the only thing on the pink that could be read regarding the car other than it was for a 1926 coupe. I told her that I had cut the top off. She looked for the speedometer, I told her the car never had one same with windshield wiper. After 1/2 hour and $90 I had a set of plates and a new ca pink slip.

My grandson went to local DMV last week to get photo ID, waited in line 4 hours.

31Abone · 02-15-2014, 12:39 PM

I have delt with this Vin issue several times here in Calif...If title does not match engine number..then you will have to remove body or what I have thought of doing is to remove front fender and re-stamp the title number on top frame member,but I have never done this as it may be illegal or if you want to put number on cross member under floor board,re-stamping is not easy to get it to look correct..not quite cricket but an idea ? some CHP officers will attach a non public VIN sticker somewhere on the car frame to match your title..talk with CHP VIN officer first.. Calif DMV requires 2 Vin numbers,one public and other non-public to deal with stolen cars..my last Model A they accepted the motor number as the second VIN,,but not always....S

Marco Tahtaras · 02-15-2014, 02:09 PM

I'm a bit surprised by some of the responses from CA residents. It helps to know the system, staying as current as possible. There is no way I'd allow one of my cars to defaced with the addition of a riveted plate. That happened to an older friend when I was a kid (1970-ish) so I learned then that to play the game I needed to know the rules.

When it was time to register my Roadster in 1995 I went into the DMV with no paperwork and fortunately got a great gal that was clearly having a good day (it make a difference)! I explained my decided scenario knowing my car was not in their records. I asked her what I needed to get the job done and she provided a series of forms and even made some quiet suggestions on dealing with each step. Back then Pleasanton PD would send an officer out upon request and I had no problem getting him to sign off on the engine number so the rest was easy. I think it cost me about $40 for everything when I went back to the DMV as I didn't have to pay 8.5% sales tax.

Now it's a little tougher here. The Vin verification forms for the last 10-15 years include a series of check boxes to select the exact location of the VIN. The engine is not among the list and is NOT technically allowed. That is why I'm very surprised by some of the responses. It has to be somewhere on the frame or body. Keep in mind that neither DMV folks or Police officers have no clue what is original or proper unless they are in the hobby.

In the current situation it sounds like the DMV has begun the "paper trail" by entering info into the system. Flipp would likely do best by slowing down the process and digesting advise from those closer to his area.

Chris Haynes · 02-15-2014, 02:36 PM

Remove your floor board and stamp the number on the title on the frame. Use a little muriatiac acid on a Q tip to put some age on your freshly stamped number. You are now ready to show the DMV/CHP where you found the number.

denis4x4 · 02-15-2014, 04:06 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

Remove your floor board and stamp the number on the title on the frame. Use a little muriatiac acid on a Q tip to put some age on your freshly stamped number. You are now ready to show the DMV/CHP where you found the number.

All well and good until you run into the DMV person that knows where the proper VIN is stamped on a Model A frame. Could be considered a felony by some DMV people.

It may have worked for you, but consider the next guy that owns your car and the problems that he might have registering the car in another state.

RobertB · 02-15-2014, 04:21 PM

I was surprised to hear about the problem with the Maine registration. We register all our freight trailers through Maine. I almost registered a 50 Chevy PU there. They said any car over 15 years old does not get a title, just registration and plates, and they don't care where the car resides.

Just a suggestion if you get tired of messing with CA DMV.

Bleedblue4life · 02-15-2014, 04:27 PM

Get a blank Briggs body number plate and put the vin of the title onto the plate and attach it somewhere on the car, under the seat riser ect. We did this to a car that had to be inspected with a motor number different from the title number, no one questioned it.

Terry,NJ · 02-15-2014, 05:02 PM

I didn't read all the responses, so I don't know if this was said or not, In the end, unless you get very lucky, I think you will have to lift the body, at least a couple of inches. The frame ser.# will be just a little ahead of and under the drivers door. Pa. and a pencil rubbing. Make several and keep them with all your other documentation and provenance. I know this a royal P.I.T.A.. but this is the only other place on the car that is stamped. Pray that the two match (Frame and title) One digit off and you'll probably be going crazy for the next year.
Terry

flipp · 02-15-2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

So, are you saying that the engine number doesn't match the frame number doesn't match the title VIN ?

The VIN number on the chassis matches the title certificate but the engine doesn't.

RobertB · 02-15-2014, 05:26 PM

My 31 also came from Colorado, and the engine and title number match. I haven't transferred the title yet as I don't really trust the weather cracked tires to make it to the DMV and back.

But just as insurance, I bought one of the VIN number plates with the motor number stamped on it and mounted it above the original Ford patent plate on the firewall.

In NM the clerk has to come out to the parking lot and find the VIN that's on the title, and I wanted to make it easy for them.

I also bought a Murray body number plate. I have not found the original. Any place the body number might be stamped?

flipp · 02-15-2014, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Mylar LakewoodCA

Flipp,
Don't go to the CHP unless you want them to put a tag on your door.
Since the motor number is different, they will require you to remove the body or they will register it with a DMV or a CHP number, not a Model A number.

I can recommend a service and I can give you some options on some things to do.

Neil
[email protected]

Hello Neil.. I certainly dont want them to rebrand my Model A.

Thanks for the heads up. I will be in contact with you soon to get more advice from you on the other options.

Patrick L. · 02-15-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipp

The VIN number on the chassis matches the title certificate but the engine doesn't.

OK, then there shouldn't be a problem.

flipp · 02-15-2014, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

Never heard of having to inspect in Cali............ am wondering what route you've gone?
Have sold "paper" to Cali and never an inspection-one of the easiest states.
Slow has it right, when you don't know what you are doing......... use an agency.

They said it needed inspection because it was an out-of-state car.

zzlegend · 02-15-2014, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

OK, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Lifting the body shouldn't be a problem?

There is another way but some on here would frown on it.

jm29henry · 02-15-2014, 05:47 PM

Flipp I know things like these happen when buying old cars .You already called the DMV so you will have to go that way .I have seen model a number stamps for sale on this site .you could post an add for the stamps grind off old # and re stamp with the title # .I can tell how much you love this car its just a little set back it will all work out in one way or another

al's28/33 · 02-15-2014, 06:24 PM

It all boils down to the attitude of the person you are dealing with, they could be in a good mood or they could make you come back 7 times cause you forgot to fill out the form completely. I had good luck both times.

Joebee · 02-15-2014, 07:26 PM

Don't go to the DMV. AAA will be able to take care of you with no hassle ......

TerryH · 02-15-2014, 11:40 PM

Flipp
In my earlier post recommending AAA handle it, I forgot to mention that my car was also from out of state.....New York, and it was just registered there.... They do not title cars that old. It certainly would do you no harm or open a can of worms to at least ask them if they can help you with it......In the end I had a Calif titled car, currently registered, and a little later with YOM plates.....it can be done!

hardtimes · 02-16-2014, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipp

The VIN number on the chassis matches the title certificate but the engine doesn't.

Hey flipp.
My '30 roadster had exact same situation as you car. Frame # matched pink slip #. A CHP supervisor was working at the time that I arrived at DMV office. He KNEW exactly where the frame number was stamped..under the left front fender. He owned old cars as a hobby. He looked at the blown A engine and saw that the cert # did not match the engine #. Politely said...'take up the fender and bring car back to me to see what you found'. Frame number matched pink slip and all was right in the world,eh

. Subsequently, I stamped exact frame number on side of frame EXACTLY below original number location, so I wouldn't forget as I grow old with car.
To answer your engine question, IMO, there are VERY few cars that ever survived with same engine # as frame has (if it ever was to begin with).

Chris Haynes · 02-17-2014, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denis4x4

All well and good until you run into the DMV person that knows where the proper VIN is stamped on a Model A frame. Could be considered a felony by some DMV people.

It may have worked for you, but consider the next guy that owns your car and the problems that he might have registering the car in another state.

Take it to AAA.

Chris Haynes · 02-17-2014, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertB

I was surprised to hear about the problem with the Maine registration. We register all our freight trailers through Maine. I almost registered a 50 Chevy PU there. They said any car over 15 years old does not get a title, just registration and plates, and they don't care where the car resides.

Just a suggestion if you get tired of messing with CA DMV.

CA is a title state for all vehicles.

Marshall57 · 02-17-2014, 04:21 AM

In Nevada back when the model As were new, you could get all your paperwork with a bill of sale. My car never had a title. I didn’t want a car without a legal title so I first went through official channels at the state capital and was up against a brick wall needing paperwork and signatures that I couldn’t get and that had never existed. I had pulled the body for other reasons and had our police officer take a look at the frame number and sign off on it before putting it back on the frame, but it didn't seem to make any difference at the state level.
The seller asked to give it a try and took her father’s will giving her the car (just a vague description), some old registration and a defiant attitude, and we trooped down to the DMV.
To my astonishment they looked over what we had and signed off on it, and I have the first title the car ever had.
I would think that getting the paperwork right will save untold headaches for you and for your family down the road if and when you would like to sell your car.
If you don't take the time to get it right, and the numbers won’t match, under close scrutiny you will not have paperwork for the car you own, instead having a title to a car whose motor you now have installed in your car, or even a title with numbers that in no way are attached to the car you are trying to sell.
I am no lawyer but it seems to me that if I were trying to buy a Model A and found the numbers on the title didn't match the car, I would shy away from the purchase.

02-14-2014, 06:33 PM	#1
flipp Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Guys, I bought my Model A out of state. I need to register it in California. I just got back from DMV and my Model A didn't pass inspection because the engine serial number didn't match the Title Certificate. So, the DMV referred me to the local CHP office for further inspection. I have an appointment next week with CHP. Question/s: Is it unusual for the engine to have a different VIN number than the chassis on a Model A? Does anyone here have any experience in this area? I still need for DMV to assign my YOM plates (after it passes inspection).. Dang!! California Sucks!!!

02-14-2014, 06:38 PM	#2
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,116	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Most Model A's these days have had the engine changed out at one time or another, therefore the frame # and the engine # won't match like they did when they came from the factory. On mine, the engine # matches the title, but it is obvious to anyone that knows Model A's that the engine # is not a factory stamped number. Here in Alaska, when I went to register my PU, they took the California title with narry a wobble. 15 minutes and $200 and I was out of there with my new Alaska "Collector Car" plates. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

02-14-2014, 06:43 PM	#3
flipp Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Southern California Posts: 31	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Thanks CarlG.. I agree. I think the engine has been replaced. But weird thing is that the out of state (Colorado in this case) title certificate shows a different VIN number on it. Is that going to be a problem when CHP inspects it?

02-14-2014, 06:47 PM	#4
shuttlebuggy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 236	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Sent you a PM

02-14-2014, 07:54 PM	#6
silversink Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dayton Oregon Posts: 318	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) This is the reason I keep the old engine in the back of the shop, I have to go thru this very thing changing the title from Washington to Oregon. Can't wait as the DMV says we have ways to solve these title change problems---don't know if this is good or bad. __________________ Hotrods don't have valve covers

02-14-2014, 08:03 PM	#7
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,552	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California This is what I did when I registered my car from Oregon to Ca. I went down and when they asked about the VIN I explained that the car does not have a VIN number and that they used the engine number. In my case it was registered in Oregon and they installed a sticker in the door jamb with that number. So that is what they used. I DID NOT tell then where the frame number was as I did not want to lift the body. The DMV just doesn't know there job when it comes to these cars (sorry to anyone who works for DMV here). You will have to educate them unless you find someone who remembers these cars when new. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

02-14-2014, 08:51 PM	#8
al's28/33 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Redwood City, CA Posts: 1,591	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I showed them the engine stamp # and said this is all I got! Plus I brought my "A" books that detailed the engine stamp # and had the guy read a few highlighted lines and he thought a little then passed me! __________________ 1928 "A" Phaeton (mid year with many early features) 1933 "V8" Closed-Cab Pickup Truck (originally a Model B, 4 Cylinder dating to May, 1933)

02-14-2014, 09:03 PM	#9
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California In Maine, made sure the engine number matched the paper work. I have no idea what it says on the frame. Ron W

02-14-2014, 09:05 PM	#10
Slowplane Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sonora desert, Arizona Posts: 290	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California The first rule when dealing with the California DMV is..... DON'T!! always use, or, at least, talk to a DMV service. These are private companies that are savvy to the DMV nuances, and, for a small fee, handle your paperwork for you. When I lived in California, and was buying and restoring out-of-state or country cars and motorcycles, I found them invaluable. Basically they will help you not to "put yer foot in it", as so often happens when dealing with government agencies.

02-14-2014, 09:55 PM	#11
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,279	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Dealing with Calif DMV and the CHP worked out for me because the CHP guy liked old cars and was much more interested in talking about the car than in doing the paperwork so he OKed it with just making a new registration plate he rivited on. I had no paper whatsoever to start with. However, Slowplane's advice to get a DMV service assistant is good advice if things go sideways. They are usually former DMV employees and know the rules and procedures better that you ever will. I suggest you let the CHP guy look at it and see what he does. It might work out. If not, search the web for a Service in SoCal. Just remember that they want the registration money so ultimately it can be done. Last edited by PC/SR; 02-14-2014 at 10:01 PM.

02-14-2014, 10:13 PM	#12
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,796	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Never heard of having to inspect in Cali............ am wondering what route you've gone? Have sold "paper" to Cali and never an inspection-one of the easiest states. Slow has it right, when you don't know what you are doing......... use an agency.

02-15-2014, 12:12 AM	#13
Brobrian Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 315	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I live in CA, and had exactly the same experience. It took a while. The first step was to get the CHP to install a vin plate on the door jam. Then head back to the DMV. Clear sailing after that. In my case there was an additional step because the supervisor at the DMV didn't know the rules for old cars. She said that since mine was a pickup it had to be registered as a commercial vehicle and thus have a tare established. So, I had to go to the local dump and have them give me a tare certificate before the DMV would register the pickup. Shouldn't be an issue with coupes and sedans. I have to agree with the post about using another agency rather that the DMV. My neighbor uses AAA. I'm not insure with them, but after getting the runaround from the DMV, I'll go another route next time. __________________ Forty horses is plenty.

02-15-2014, 12:31 AM	#14
denis4x4 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Durango CO Posts: 1,310	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Learned years ago that when the body is off the frame, call a local law enforcement agency and pay $25 for a VIN verification certificate that you can use later to register the A. There are some DMV personel that know that Model A's have a frame number and that's what they want to register the car. Too, I always clean up the frame where the number is stamped and use white-out to highlight the numbers and take photos. I understand that this isn't a solution for somebody buying a finished car, but it helps if you're doing a restoration on a car with dubious paperwork or doing a bonded title.

02-15-2014, 01:48 AM	#15
TerryH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fountain Valley, Calif. Posts: 937	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I also live in S. Calif., and when I bought my Model A out of state about 8 years ago, a good friend suggested I use our local AAA office...... Which I did, and they had a man there that specialized in registering old cars. He was very helpful and handled the whole process without dealing with a DMV drone. Not sure it would be that easy with your situation but you might try asking them. The office I used was in Newport Beach.

02-15-2014, 03:12 AM	#16
Neil Mylar LakewoodCA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakewood, CA Posts: 1,346	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Flipp, Don't go to the CHP unless you want them to put a tag on your door. Since the motor number is different, they will require you to remove the body or they will register it with a DMV or a CHP number, not a Model A number. I can recommend a service and I can give you some options on some things to do. Neil [email protected]

02-15-2014, 05:16 AM	#17
big job Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Dighton, Mass Posts: 1,230	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Ya gotta be kidding. Dont tell me Ca. is also taking stuip pills? Could be worse, here in Taxachusetts they think they are still in the civil war. Me on a fixed income spent out of whats left of my savings for my last ride a 1923 Ford. Of course there's no title, but I got all paper work from the seller on official state issued noterized Conn. stationary. So dumb & the dumbers want a bill of sale from the origional owner, "that was planted" in 1943, and I'm not a grave digger. I will not buy some $800 title either. They can go kiss my ass, the car runs perfectly with skull & bone plates, from my pickup. dont tell me conseqences, I'm a retired police sgt. Stay tune'ed, If I do get caught I promise I shall be on national Tv. and expose these dispicable RMV who make their own rules (overnite). Another RMV stupidity, is thousands upon thousand Authorized Reman. Ford engines were installed. Oh going back to if I get caught= Its been one year now for the Boston bomber, still gettin fed watchin tv gets clean clothes while many inocent people now with no arms and legs and dead. So the better not screw with this old man.

02-15-2014, 09:46 AM	#20
DrinkMan Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Hoschton, GA Posts: 30	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I hate to brag, but reading all these really makes me appreciate my experience. I walked in with bill-of-sale, out of state title, and fingers crossed. The Ga DOT clerk, laughed, handed me back the title, said for old classic cars the bill-of-sale will do and asked if I had a picture of the car to show her. She complimented me on the color and asked me questions while the paper work was printing. Handed me back everything ready to hit the road and told me to bring the car by sometime. She even called over co-workers to look at my cell phone picture. Glad I live in rural Ga. __________________ Life is too short to drive boring cars or drink boring beers. Just don't do them both at the same time. A diverse fleet - nothing boring: 1928 Ford Tudor 1969 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce (Duetto) 1973 Opel GT 1973 Triumph TR6 1979 Triumph Spitfire w/GT6+ engine: Spit6 2005 Lotus Elise

02-15-2014, 12:21 PM	#22
just plain bill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 397	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I own a Lakes Modified, It is the front 1/2 of a 26 or 27 T touring sitting on a set of T kit car rails shortened and narrowed. I called an old friend and he gave me the title (pink slip) for a 1926 T coupe. I stamped the number from the pink onto a piece of brass plate which I riveted onto the frame by the firewall, drivers side. I have lights, no horn, no wipers. I went to local AAA of which I am a member although I do not have AAA insurance. A very nice young lady came out to the parking lot where the car sat on the trailer. She wrote down the number on the plate which was the only thing on the pink that could be read regarding the car other than it was for a 1926 coupe. I told her that I had cut the top off. She looked for the speedometer, I told her the car never had one same with windshield wiper. After 1/2 hour and $90 I had a set of plates and a new ca pink slip. My grandson went to local DMV last week to get photo ID, waited in line 4 hours.

02-15-2014, 12:39 PM	#23
31Abone Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Big pine Ca 93513 Posts: 797	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I have delt with this Vin issue several times here in Calif...If title does not match engine number..then you will have to remove body or what I have thought of doing is to remove front fender and re-stamp the title number on top frame member,but I have never done this as it may be illegal or if you want to put number on cross member under floor board,re-stamping is not easy to get it to look correct..not quite cricket but an idea ? some CHP officers will attach a non public VIN sticker somewhere on the car frame to match your title..talk with CHP VIN officer first.. Calif DMV requires 2 Vin numbers,one public and other non-public to deal with stolen cars..my last Model A they accepted the motor number as the second VIN,,but not always....S

02-15-2014, 02:09 PM	#24
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I'm a bit surprised by some of the responses from CA residents. It helps to know the system, staying as current as possible. There is no way I'd allow one of my cars to defaced with the addition of a riveted plate. That happened to an older friend when I was a kid (1970-ish) so I learned then that to play the game I needed to know the rules. When it was time to register my Roadster in 1995 I went into the DMV with no paperwork and fortunately got a great gal that was clearly having a good day (it make a difference)! I explained my decided scenario knowing my car was not in their records. I asked her what I needed to get the job done and she provided a series of forms and even made some quiet suggestions on dealing with each step. Back then Pleasanton PD would send an officer out upon request and I had no problem getting him to sign off on the engine number so the rest was easy. I think it cost me about $40 for everything when I went back to the DMV as I didn't have to pay 8.5% sales tax. Now it's a little tougher here. The Vin verification forms for the last 10-15 years include a series of check boxes to select the exact location of the VIN. The engine is not among the list and is NOT technically allowed. That is why I'm very surprised by some of the responses. It has to be somewhere on the frame or body. Keep in mind that neither DMV folks or Police officers have no clue what is original or proper unless they are in the hobby. In the current situation it sounds like the DMV has begun the "paper trail" by entering info into the system. Flipp would likely do best by slowing down the process and digesting advise from those closer to his area. __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/

02-15-2014, 02:36 PM	#25
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Remove your floor board and stamp the number on the title on the frame. Use a little muriatiac acid on a Q tip to put some age on your freshly stamped number. You are now ready to show the DMV/CHP where you found the number. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

02-15-2014, 04:21 PM	#27
RobertB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Santa Teresa, NM Posts: 133	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I was surprised to hear about the problem with the Maine registration. We register all our freight trailers through Maine. I almost registered a 50 Chevy PU there. They said any car over 15 years old does not get a title, just registration and plates, and they don't care where the car resides. Just a suggestion if you get tired of messing with CA DMV. __________________ RobertB Santa Teresa, NM

02-15-2014, 04:27 PM	#28
Bleedblue4life Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Carey, Ohio Posts: 57	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Get a blank Briggs body number plate and put the vin of the title onto the plate and attach it somewhere on the car, under the seat riser ect. We did this to a car that had to be inspected with a motor number different from the title number, no one questioned it.

02-15-2014, 05:02 PM	#29
Terry,NJ Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Northern Bucks Co. Pa Posts: 632	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California I didn't read all the responses, so I don't know if this was said or not, In the end, unless you get very lucky, I think you will have to lift the body, at least a couple of inches. The frame ser.# will be just a little ahead of and under the drivers door. Pa. and a pencil rubbing. Make several and keep them with all your other documentation and provenance. I know this a royal P.I.T.A.. but this is the only other place on the car that is stamped. Pray that the two match (Frame and title) One digit off and you'll probably be going crazy for the next year. Terry

02-15-2014, 05:26 PM	#31
RobertB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Santa Teresa, NM Posts: 133	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California My 31 also came from Colorado, and the engine and title number match. I haven't transferred the title yet as I don't really trust the weather cracked tires to make it to the DMV and back. But just as insurance, I bought one of the VIN number plates with the motor number stamped on it and mounted it above the original Ford patent plate on the firewall. In NM the clerk has to come out to the parking lot and find the VIN that's on the title, and I wanted to make it easy for them. I also bought a Murray body number plate. I have not found the original. Any place the body number might be stamped? __________________ RobertB Santa Teresa, NM

02-15-2014, 05:47 PM	#36
jm29henry Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: michigan Posts: 1,126	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Flipp I know things like these happen when buying old cars .You already called the DMV so you will have to go that way .I have seen model a number stamps for sale on this site .you could post an add for the stamps grind off old # and re stamp with the title # .I can tell how much you love this car its just a little set back it will all work out in one way or another

02-15-2014, 06:24 PM	#37
al's28/33 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Redwood City, CA Posts: 1,591	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California It all boils down to the attitude of the person you are dealing with, they could be in a good mood or they could make you come back 7 times cause you forgot to fill out the form completely. I had good luck both times. __________________ 1928 "A" Phaeton (mid year with many early features) 1933 "V8" Closed-Cab Pickup Truck (originally a Model B, 4 Cylinder dating to May, 1933)

02-15-2014, 07:26 PM	#38
Joebee Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 26	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Don't go to the DMV. AAA will be able to take care of you with no hassle ......

02-15-2014, 11:40 PM	#39
TerryH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fountain Valley, Calif. Posts: 937	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California Flipp In my earlier post recommending AAA handle it, I forgot to mention that my car was also from out of state.....New York, and it was just registered there.... They do not title cars that old. It certainly would do you no harm or open a can of worms to at least ask them if they can help you with it......In the end I had a Calif titled car, currently registered, and a little later with YOM plates.....it can be done!

02-17-2014, 04:21 AM	#43
Marshall57 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Elko Nevada Posts: 217	Re: DMV Inspection Failed, Now CHP California In Nevada back when the model As were new, you could get all your paperwork with a bill of sale. My car never had a title. I didn’t want a car without a legal title so I first went through official channels at the state capital and was up against a brick wall needing paperwork and signatures that I couldn’t get and that had never existed. I had pulled the body for other reasons and had our police officer take a look at the frame number and sign off on it before putting it back on the frame, but it didn't seem to make any difference at the state level. The seller asked to give it a try and took her father’s will giving her the car (just a vague description), some old registration and a defiant attitude, and we trooped down to the DMV. To my astonishment they looked over what we had and signed off on it, and I have the first title the car ever had. I would think that getting the paperwork right will save untold headaches for you and for your family down the road if and when you would like to sell your car. If you don't take the time to get it right, and the numbers won’t match, under close scrutiny you will not have paperwork for the car you own, instead having a title to a car whose motor you now have installed in your car, or even a title with numbers that in no way are attached to the car you are trying to sell. I am no lawyer but it seems to me that if I were trying to buy a Model A and found the numbers on the title didn't match the car, I would shy away from the purchase.