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Old 01-04-2020, 09:59 AM   #81
ronn
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

to those questioning Chinas ability............


complete BMW motorcycles have been made there for some time for the Germans


I am sure they have no interest in throwing their high quality business model away.


the chinese can make poor quality or great quality- all depends what you want to pay.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:29 AM   #82
rotorwrench
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

When Henry Ford and investors started to produce cars back in 1903/04 with the first model A, They were at the mercy of foundries to produce their castings. When the moved to the Piquette Avenue plant, they set up a small foundry to do the little parts (mostly the brass stuff). They got into hock with the Dodge Brothers to fabricate a lot of their parts that ended up in making them shareholders in Ford Motor Co. They had a lot of quality control problems with the Dodge Brothers and others. When Ford had the new Highland Park plant built, they finally had their own foundry to cast stuff for themselves. They still didn't make everything but they were getting closer as time went by.

The point is that casting projects that turn into a manufacturing businesses generally always have to end up with their own foundry in order to control things the way they want them to be.

I hope that folks that enter complex projects like this are successful. It's a monumental task to get to an end product that will be reliable in function and longevity and pay off for the folks involved. May the new year bring good fortunes to all that make this and similar efforts. We have to keep the old Fords on the road somehow.
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Old 01-05-2020, 10:13 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Amen
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:35 AM   #84
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Yes, gong xi fa cai, May it be a good one.
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:54 PM   #85
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
Yes, gong xi fa cai, May it be a good one.


Gong Show??? The Unknown Comic??

I don't know what this is.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:44 PM   #86
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

It’s “Happy New Year” in Chinese.
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Old 01-26-2020, 10:56 AM   #87
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry Burtz recently posted a progress update on the Model A block project. Following is a copy of his post:

----------------------------------------------------

To All,

Updates

In case someone gets this Email without seeing the article on the new Model A engine, the article can be found at http://www.modelaengine.com

If anyone has a question, concern, comment, or suggestion, please let me know at model.a.engine@hotmail.com and Iíll do my best to resolve the issue.


New Engine

This project started in 2007 and stalled in 2015 because of sky-rocketing cost and the lack of quality control at foundries in California.

Previous updates, pictures, and videos can be found at www.modelaengine.com

I use the term "new engine" loosely because the only new parts are the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods. All interfaces for mating parts are identical to original and have been documented from original Ford drawings.

In the 2 July 2019 update, I was happy to state that the project was resurrected and I would be working with others (John, Leonard, and Bill) to have the "new engine" manufactured in China.

A lot has happened since the last update on 26 Nov 2019.

As mentioned before, the cylinder block and main caps will be manufactured in one factory and the crankshaft and connecting rods will be manufactured in another factory. Both factories will be working together so that there are no conflicts.


Cylinder Block and Main Caps

SolidWorks models of all internal cores, main bearing caps, machined surfaces, an original cylinder block, and the one good cylinder block from Lodi Iron Works were provided to the factory in China and the instructions were to follow the machined model exactly, revise the internal cores if needed and to use a laser scan of the original cylinder block for the exterior.

The machined surfaces drawing made from my SolidWorks file is close to being acceptable. One more iteration is needed because their fore and aft tooling holes need to be moved inward.

During December, I asked to review and markup the 3-D model of the exterior cylinder block created by the engineers in the factory we are using. Unfortunately, many small details did not look right, and it became obvious that the factory was attempting to model the cylinder block exterior using 3-D drawing instead of laser scanning. The previous update (26 Nov 2019) addressed the need for laser scanning to capture every minute detail.

To confirm this, John had a friend overlay the raw laser-scanned cylinder block on the drawn 3-D cylinder block from the factory. It was clear that more refinement was needed to match the exterior surfaces of the new cylinder block to the original casting.

Fortunately, John understands these differences and the problem. He is currently working on another project that requires having a complex sheet metal assembly laser scanned in preparation for manufacture in China.

To get the exterior of the new cylinder block correct, John has contracted with CAM Logic Inc located in Oxford, MI to clean up the laser-scanned file of the original cylinder block. This cleaned up file will then be used to create the exterior pattern for the new block. The first 2 figures show the laser-scanned cylinder block. The next 2 figures are of a model from CAM Logic that will be used to create the pattern.

CAM Logic will also combine the core assembly with the laser-scanned model to verify exterior wall thickness.

It is Chinese New Year right now so factories throughout the country are shut down until mid-February. After the holiday, John will meet with the factory and work with them to have the models from CAM Logic integrated into the design.

Unfortunately, the timing of these design changes along with the Chinese New Year is going to delay us at least 2 months. John will have a better idea of schedule after his return from China in late February.


Crankshaft and Connecting Rods

SolidWorks models of the crankshaft and connecting rods have been provided and the instructions to the factory in China are to follow the SolidWorks models.

The machined crankshaft drawing with dimensions and tolerances is shown in the fifth figure. The drawing looks good.

Rolled fillets, balancing, hardening, bearing inserts, and the rear main seal was discussed in the previous update (26 Nov 2019).

The crankshaft factory asked and was granted permission to have the connecting rods forged from steel instead of cast from malleable iron. We agreed as long as there would not be any increase in price. Preliminary drawings of the connecting rod have been marked up and returned to China.


Next Update and Other Comments

There have been no changes that will have an effect on pricing. The pricing goal is to provide these parts at a price that is competitive with the cost of machine work for the rebuild of a stock Model A engine.

Regarding the schedule delay, please be patient and understand that hiccups can happen in any project. We have high standards and insist on quality even if it means a schedule delay.

Our goal is to provide the parts that will allow an engine builder to provide a much better product that looks identical to stock on the exterior.

The next update will be in about 2 months.

Terry Burtz, Campbell, Calif.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Laser Scan 1.jpg (103.3 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg Laser Scan 2.jpg (108.5 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg File for Pattern 1.jpg (19.9 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg File for Pattern 2.jpg (22.7 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0180-Edit.jpg (466.0 KB, 67 views)
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:13 AM   #88
Ernie Vitucci
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Very encouraging work Terry. Many of us are pulling for you!
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Old 01-26-2020, 01:50 PM   #89
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I see the forged rods as a major plus. Congratulations on all the effort put into this product.
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Old 01-26-2020, 02:09 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

How did China become an economic powerhouse when they shut down factory production for a month for New Year's Day? Oh wait, could it be currency manipulation and other unfair business practices? Terry, what kind of tariffs are you going to have to pay to import the blocks from China?
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:23 AM   #91
Richard in Anaheim CA
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

What's the latest update? Any prototype blocks being machined yet ?
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:50 AM   #92
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

How is the Corona virus going to effect your production.
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:45 PM   #93
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

In Terry’s update in January, he wrote:

“It is Chinese New Year right now so factories throughout the country are shut down until mid-February. After the holiday, John will meet with the factory and work with them to have the models from CAM Logic integrated into the design.”

If John went to China in January as planned, I hope he is back and ok.

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Old 03-15-2020, 09:19 PM   #94
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I want to thank everyone that is interested in the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft). The next update (progress report) will be sent in early April 2020 or shortly thereafter. I want to include photographs of actual hardware in the next update. Below are some of the more interesting questions and comments with replies since the last update in January 2020.


Mr. Burtz

Reference:

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-02.jpg

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-06.jpg

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-08.jpg

I'm building a nearly exact replica of this 1930s aircraft. I
plan on using your engine block assembly as a basis for my
engine. Every component chosen for long term reliability. I
watch your project's progress with great interest. Very exciting.

I'm modeling the entire aircraft in 3D CAD. I have cylinder head,
oil pan, carburetor, etc to model, but no engine block. It would be
a great help if I had an EXTERNAL CAD model of the engine block as
you will be producing it. I don't need any internal details, just the
external casting with all the external machining processes, so I can
mount the oil pan and cylinder head models. Also the exposed end of
the crankshaft so I can mount the propeller hub model and propeller
model.

I will not share this information with anyone. It is only for my own
design/research purposes.

I can use STP files.

Would you share an external CAD model of your engine block?

Thanks and best regards,
Craig


Craig,

Thanks for your interest in the new engine project.

I don't have a model of the exterior.

I modeled the internal cores and machining from Ford drawing A-6015 using SolidWorks 2004, 13 years ago. For the exterior, drawing A-6015 specifies "All walls & fillets to be 5/32 unless otherwise specified"

The exterior of the original cylinder block was sculpted by the pattern makers at Ford and was dimensionally undocumented.

I cut an original cylinder block into 20 pieces and enlarged those 20 pieces 3-dimensionally to create a pattern. This pattern was used for all efforts at Lodi Iron Works until the project stalled in 2015, and the resulting cylinder blocks looked identical to the original.

For the current effort in China, an original cylinder block was laser scanned to create the exterior model using software that is far beyond SolidWorks 2004. I don't have a model of the exterior, and even if I did, I would not be able to open it.

For what you are doing, I would simply measure an original cylinder block and create a model from that. Our efforts are to create an exact model, whereas your efforts are just to get something close.

Are you planning to attach the propeller to the flywheel mounting flange of the crankshaft? If so, this is a very bad idea because it will continuously overload the forward thrust bearing, and it puts bending and radial loads into the rear main bearing that will cause a fatigue failure.

A much better design would be to support the propeller similar to how the pinion is supported in a Model A differential only larger. That is to have the propeller shaft supported with a pair of back to back tapered roller bearings of at least 5-inch diameter, and have the propeller shaft connected to the flywheel mounting flange with a universal joint and splined shaft coupling. Thrust, bending, and radial loads will be supported by the pair of 5-inch diameter tapered roller bearings instead of the 2-inch crankshaft bearing. Clear as mud?

Terry Burtz



Hi Terry,

I am in the Model A hobby (MARC & MAFCA) and someone recently sent me the description of your project to modernize the Model A engine. Iím probably more biased toward originality, but I am impressed by the level of detail you have gone into with your project.

Iíve been an engineer for about 23 years, including about 11 years at an engine OEM which is a subsidiary of CAT. I did a lot of work with their foundry in Mapleton, IL and sometimes had small run prototype castings made from tooling that was 3D printed on an ExOne sand printer. It could print molds and cores up to the size of an office desk and the quality was very impressive. A couple of years ago, I was thinking of starting a side business reproducing rare antique car parts. I found a few casting houses that will make low production and prototype castings with no hard tooling using this type of 3D sand printer. I seem to remember a couple of houses in Wisconsin. I thought you might be interested in this information.

Russell


Russell,

Thanks for your comments and information. I added your Email address to the update list, so you should receive future updates by Email.

Regarding originality, our goal is to provide a product that looks original on the outside but has more modern technology on the inside.

When I was looking for a foundry in 2008 at the beginning of this project, I found a research foundry at the repurposed McClellan Air Force Base near Sacramento, CA that was using one of the mold printing machines.

The machine could print the cope, drag, all cores, sprues, gates, risers, and everything all at once. There was no need for core boxes or patterns, and complex castings with reverse draft were possible. Core shift was impossible. There were 2 problems, 1) Cost would be $2300 per casting, and 2) I did not have a digital model of the exterior of the cylinder block.

Terry Burtz



Dear Terry,

I wrote you earlier concerning the Model A engine project.

As i wrote you before we rebuilding al lot of Ford model A , B And G28T engines and i am very interesting in Offering your new redesigned engines in Europe.

Hopefully we can discuss the opportunities to set up the distribution line direct from China to Europe.

In case of maching the block we have programmed the Ford Model A engine block on our Haas CNC machine.

We are going to several meetings and Markets in Germany,Scandinavie, Holland,Belgium and the UK

On this moment we supply customers with rebuilded engines across Europe.

Hans




Hans,

Thank you for your interest in this project.

We would be happy to work with you and have you be the distributor in Europe.

We need to have a proven product before we release it for sale.

I am replying BCC to Leonard who is a team member that will be responsible for distribution.

Terry Burtz




Hi Terry

I'm Dave, Visalia CA. we talked late last year about your progress on the engine and the possibility of you doing a program at our Central Calif. Regional Workshop in April 10 2020. You wanted me to contact you again after January to give you some time to evaluate your progress on the engine. I can only hope that the Coronavirus in China has not caused your project any serious problems.

Could you let me know as soon as you can since we are beginning to put together the agenda and make arrangements for our Model A Jamboree.


Dave,

Thanks for asking me to make a presentation at the 2020 Regional Workshop at the Jamboree in Visalia.

When I made the previous presentation in Visalia, I used a PowerPoint presentation and was able to display the new cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods from Lodi Iron Works.

The basic design of the new engine has not changed, so there is nothing new regarding design details.

The cylinder block from Lodi Iron Works that I displayed is now in China.

We've had 2 setbacks that have affected the schedule. One is where the engineers in China did not make a lot of progress when they attempted to model the exterior of the cylinder block, and the other is the general slowdown due to the coronavirus.

Modeling of the cylinder block exterior based on laser scanning was completed by CamLogic and given to the engineers in China, and the coronavirus has not completely shut down progress in China.

Our team member, John Lampl has not been able to physically travel to China, however, he sends and receives Emails regularly from China.

I feel honored with your invitation, but need to decline because we won't have new hardware to display.

Terry Burtz



How did China become an economic powerhouse when they shut down factory production for a month for New Year's Day? Oh wait, could it be currency manipulation and other unfair business practices? Terry, what kind of tariffs are you going to have to pay to import the blocks from China?

Unlike America, New Years Day is a huge celebration in China that is long. Look at https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays...pring-festival, and you will see that it is a 23-day event. Tariffs, production cost, tooling cost, transportation cost, storage cost, and other factors have been accounted for. The goal of providing the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft) at the price of a rebuild (around $3500) has not changed.





What's the latest update? Any prototype blocks being machined yet ?

The latest update will be sent when I have some photographs to show. I expect to have photographs in early April 2020. We don't expect to have hardware for a couple of months. The current effort is tooling production.





How is the Corona virus going to effect your production.

I spoke with John about this, and he feels that it will have a minimal effect compared to manufacturing industries in China that are labor-intensive.





In Terryís update in January, he wrote:

ďIt is Chinese New Year right now so factories throughout the country are shut down until mid-February. After the holiday, John will meet with the factory and work with them to have the models from CAM Logic integrated into the design.Ē

If John went to China in January as planned, I hope he is back and ok.



David

John did not go to China because of the Coronavirus. The model from CAM Logic was sent and the pattern makers are using it. Earlier this week, I received a connecting rod print that I have to dimensionally check. John is in Email contact with the factories in China on a regular basis.
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Old 03-27-2020, 05:31 PM   #95
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Hi Everyone - the following update was posted by Terry Burtz yesterday.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello to All,

26 March 2020


Updates

In case someone gets this Email without seeing the article on the new Model A engine, the article can be found at http://www.modelaengine.com

If anyone has a question, concern, comment, or suggestion, please let me know at model.a.engine@hotmail.com, and I’ll do my best to resolve the issue.


New Engine

This project started in 2007 and stalled in 2015 because of sky-rocketing costs and the lack of quality control at foundries in California.

Previous updates, pictures, and videos can be found at www.modelaengine.com

FordBarn, (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265782) is an internet social group for Model A Ford hobbyists, and there are a lot of interesting questions and comments regarding this project.

I use the term "new engine" loosely because the only new parts are the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods. All interfaces for mating parts are identical to original and have been documented from original Ford drawings.

In the 2 July 2019 update, I was happy to state that the project was resurrected and I would be working with others (John, Leonard, and Bill) to have the "new engine" manufactured in China.

A lot has happened since the last update on 25 January 2020.


Cylinder Block and Main Caps

CAM Logic Inc completed its work to digitally model the exterior of the cylinder block based on the laser scan.

John had planned to travel to China to present the CAM Logic Inc exterior model in mid-February but was unable to due to the Coronavirus outbreak. However, in the interim, John has been working with the factory in China remotely to move the project forward.

The data file from CAM Logic Inc was sent to China and is being used to make the exterior pattern.

We also asked CAM Logic to confirm that all wall thicknesses were 5/32 inch or greater per Ford drawing A-6015, and they found that when the SolidWorks core models were combined with their exterior model, the wall at the front of the valve chamber was found to be thin.

This was corrected by making the valve chamber core slightly smaller to add wall thickness, and this file was also sent to China.

The machined surfaces drawing made from my SolidWorks file is close to being acceptable. One more iteration is needed because their fore and aft tooling holes on the bottom of the cylinder block need to be moved inward.

Cylinder block foundry tooling is nearing completion. The factory in China has provided a schedule projecting completion on 18 April 2020.

All tooling (core boxes, and the cope and drag patterns) is being CNC machined to the SolidWorks core and exterior models that have been provided by us. Everything that is external to the cylinder block casting including sprues, core-prints, gates, runners, and vents were designed by the factory in China.

The factory in China is in the business of making cylinder blocks in volume, so the tooling has been designed for use on their automated tooling line that can mass-produce cores and molds that are precise and consistent.

The 15 attached figures show what some of the tooling will look like. The first two figures show cope and drag patterns that are ready for automated molding, and the other figures show various stages of tooling completion. All tooling will be machined from aluminum.

It is my belief that the only "hands-on" operations will be core setting, mold closure, and pouring.

Once a good casting is poured, it needs to be verified through a series of comparisons, measurements, and tests including:
  • Compare the casting exterior against an original cylinder block. Superimposing laser scans of the new and original cylinder blocks would be ideal.
  • Compare roughness and texture of surfaces.
  • Pressurize the water jacket with air while the cylinder block is submerged in water to check for porosity.
  • Cut a casting apart into many pieces to verify all wall thickness and that there is no porosity.

We cannot dictate the process for verification; however, we can ask questions like: "How are you going to verify that the exterior is identical to original? How are you going to verify that there is no porosity?, and How are you going to verify wall thickness?"

John is in contact with the factories in China about two times every week, and I talk with or Email John every few days. Unfortunately, because of the Coronavirus, John will not be able to travel to China and witness the verification process.

The Coronavirus, along with the engineers not initially using the laser scan, has slightly slowed progress in China. If foundry tooling is complete by 18 April 2020 and they produce a good casting on the first try, it is possible that a machined casting may be available in May 2020, assuming that there are no CNC errors.


Crankshaft and Connecting Rods

SolidWorks models of the crankshaft and connecting rods have been provided, and the instructions to the factory in China are to follow the SolidWorks models.

The machined crankshaft drawing with dimensions and tolerances looks good.

Rolled fillets, balancing, hardening, bearing inserts, and the rear main seal was discussed in a previous update (26 November 2019).

The crankshaft factory asked and was granted permission to have the connecting rods forged from steel instead of being cast from malleable iron. We agreed as long as there would not be any increase in price. Preliminary drawings of the connecting rod have been marked up and returned to China.


Next Update and Other Comments

There have been no changes that will affect pricing. The pricing goal is to provide these parts at a price that is competitive with the cost of machine work for the rebuild of a stock Model A engine.

Before authorizing production, we have asked for three sets of hardware that we can inspect and evaluate by building running engines. Although John cannot fly to China to meet with his contacts at the factory, freight is still actively moving.

In preparation for the next update (end of April 2020?), we have asked for photographs that show the finished foundry tooling and the first casting.

Terry Burtz, Campbell, Calif.
Attached Images
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Last edited by wrpercival; 03-28-2020 at 08:25 AM. Reason: upload additional images
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Old 05-25-2020, 06:26 PM   #96
wrpercival
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I recently received the following email update on the engine project from Terry Burtz.

There are several videos that were included in his email that cannot be uploaded to this site. As an alternative, I have posted Dropbox links to the referenced videos at the end of the update.
---------------------------------

Hello to All,

21 May 2020


Updates

In case someone gets this Email without seeing the article on the new Model A engine, the article can be found at http://www.modelaengine.com. If anyone has a question, concern, comment, or suggestion, please let me know at model.a.engine@hotmail.com and Iíll do my best to resolve the issue.


New Engine

This project started in 2007 and stalled in 2015 because of sky-rocketing cost and the lack of quality control at foundries in California.

Previous updates, pictures, and videos can be found at www.modelaengine.com

FordBarn, (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265782) is an internet social group for Model A Ford hobbyists and there are a lot of interesting questions and comments regarding this project.

I use the term "new engine" loosely because the only new parts are the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods. All interfaces for mating parts are identical to original and have been documented from original Ford drawings.

In the 2 July 2019 update, I was happy to state that the project was resurrected and I would be working with others (John, Leonard, and Bill) to have the "new engine" manufactured in China.

A lot has happened since the last update on 26 March 2020.



Cylinder Block and Main Caps


Due to Covid19, John was unable to travel to China and present the exterior model of the cylinder block that was completed by CAM logic from a laser scan. This was resolved by sending the data over the internet.

The foundry tooling (patterns and core boxes) have been delivered to the casting and machining factory.

3 cylinder blocks have been cast. The first had a miss-run problem but was useful to confirm feature location and wall thickness. The second and third cylinder block castings appear good and are shown in the following figures.

For quality control purposes, every cylinder block that passes final inspection will have a unique hidden serial number in the location shown in the attachments.

John is in contact with the factories in China about 2 times every week, and I talk with or Email John every few days.


Crankshaft

Crankshafts for engineering evaluation have been cast, rough-machined, and they are having their journals hardened in preparation for grinding.

The video attachments show the rough machining prior to heat treat.

Rolled fillets, balancing, hardening, bearing inserts, and the rear main seal was discussed in a previous update (26 Nov 2019).


Connecting Rods

In the attachments, there is a picture of big end forgings and a short video that shows the partially machined cap. The video is short, so don't blink while watching.


Design Verification

We have been in contact with an engine rebuilder and parts supplier that has agreed to help verify the design by assembling a short block with parts that we supply, and then assemble a complete engine with mostly used parts that he supplies.

We are planning to have the new engine parts air-shipped from China to an airport near his business and we are excited to see what arrives. This will be our first opportunity to visually see the new engine parts.

The new engine parts will be cosmetically compared to original parts, and dimensionally measured to confirm that all interfaces are a match to Ford drawings for attaching parts. Any discrepancies found will be documented so they can be corrected before the production run.

After assembly of the new engine, it will be run on a test stand at a high RPM for a length of time, and then installed in a car that will be driven in hill climbs at WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Next, the engine will be plumbed to utilize an oil filter and again run on the test stand. After all testing, the engine will be disassembled and all moving parts will be inspected for wear. If we agree that the design is valid, we will authorize production.


Next Update and Other Comments

There have been no changes that will have an effect on pricing. The pricing goal is to provide these parts at a price that is competitive with the cost of machine work for the rebuild of a stock Model A engine.

We expect to have engineering evaluation parts delivered by July 5, 2020.


Terry Burtz, Campbell, Calif.


Dropbox links to the video files:

Connecting Rod Machining.mp4

MACHINING OF CRANKSHAFT 1.mp4

MACHINING OF CRANKSHAFT 2.mp4
Attached Images
File Type: jpg May 1.jpg (41.8 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg May 2.jpg (60.4 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg Con Rod Forging.jpg (14.0 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg thumbnail_Serial No Location.jpg (64.2 KB, 59 views)
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Old 05-25-2020, 07:59 PM   #97
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
I want to thank everyone that is interested in the new engine parts (Cylinder Block with Caps, Connecting Rods, and Crankshaft). The next update (progress report) will be sent in early April 2020 or shortly thereafter. I want to include photographs of actual hardware in the next update. Below are some of the more interesting questions and comments with replies since the last update in January 2020.


Mr. Burtz

Reference:

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-02.jpg

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-06.jpg

http://www.aircraftrecreator.com/fil.../N13691-08.jpg

I'm building a nearly exact replica of this 1930s aircraft. I
plan on using your engine block assembly as a basis for my
engine. Every component chosen for long term reliability. I
watch your project's progress with great interest. Very exciting.

I'm modeling the entire aircraft in 3D CAD. I have cylinder head,
oil pan, carburetor, etc to model, but no engine block. It would be
a great help if I had an EXTERNAL CAD model of the engine block as
you will be producing it. I don't need any internal details, just the
external casting with all the external machining processes, so I can
mount the oil pan and cylinder head models. Also the exposed end of
the crankshaft so I can mount the propeller hub model and propeller
model.

I will not share this information with anyone. It is only for my own
design/research purposes.

I can use STP files.

Would you share an external CAD model of your engine block?

Thanks and best regards,
Craig


Craig,

Thanks for your interest in the new engine project.

I don't have a model of the exterior.

I modeled the internal cores and machining from Ford drawing A-6015 using SolidWorks 2004, 13 years ago. For the exterior, drawing A-6015 specifies "All walls & fillets to be 5/32 unless otherwise specified"

The exterior of the original cylinder block was sculpted by the pattern makers at Ford and was dimensionally undocumented.

I cut an original cylinder block into 20 pieces and enlarged those 20 pieces 3-dimensionally to create a pattern. This pattern was used for all efforts at Lodi Iron Works until the project stalled in 2015, and the resulting cylinder blocks looked identical to the original.

For the current effort in China, an original cylinder block was laser scanned to create the exterior model using software that is far beyond SolidWorks 2004. I don't have a model of the exterior, and even if I did, I would not be able to open it.

For what you are doing, I would simply measure an original cylinder block and create a model from that. Our efforts are to create an exact model, whereas your efforts are just to get something close.

Are you planning to attach the propeller to the flywheel mounting flange of the crankshaft? If so, this is a very bad idea because it will continuously overload the forward thrust bearing, and it puts bending and radial loads into the rear main bearing that will cause a fatigue failure.

A much better design would be to support the propeller similar to how the pinion is supported in a Model A differential only larger. That is to have the propeller shaft supported with a pair of back to back tapered roller bearings of at least 5-inch diameter, and have the propeller shaft connected to the flywheel mounting flange with a universal joint and splined shaft coupling. Thrust, bending, and radial loads will be supported by the pair of 5-inch diameter tapered roller bearings instead of the 2-inch crankshaft bearing. Clear as mud?

Terry Burtz

Terry,
Interesting comments on attaching the prop directly to the crankshaft! Some years ago I ran across an article from the 1930's that quoted Mr. Pietenpol as saying it was fine to mount the prop directly to the crank as the stock Model A thrust was strong enough to handle the load! And, since this was in the depression years he suggested getting an engine from a junkyard. (Maybe he wanted to keep the price down so he could sell more plans?) In addition, somebody posted drawings (from a different source, same era) here on Fordbarn of a special bellhousing with tapered roller thrust bearings and a short shaft with square cut keys connecting to the crankshaft hub. Also included was a drawing for drilling the crankshaft for pressure oiling to the rods.

I wonder what the expected crankshaft life was in either case!
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:07 PM   #98
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

40 Delux

Pietenpol's were all homebuilt and likely used a 2 blade homemade propeller. What is scary is that one blade likely grabbed more air than the other blade which resulted in high bending loads on the 1.625-inch diameter main bearing.

Early Funk airplanes used a dry-sump inverted Model B Ford engine and these airplanes were factory-built and benefited from the larger 2-inch main bearing. The propellers on Funks likely had less miss-match between the 2 blades.
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:40 PM   #99
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
40 Delux

Pietenpol's were all homebuilt and likely used a 2 blade homemade propeller. What is scary is that one blade likely grabbed more air than the other blade which resulted in high bending loads on the 1.625-inch diameter main bearing.

Early Funk airplanes used a dry-sump inverted Model B Ford engine and these airplanes were factory-built and benefited from the larger 2-inch main bearing. The propellers on Funks likely had less miss-match between the 2 blades.

Thanks, Terry. The question remains, however: How long did the original thrust surface last, what with having to pull the airplane through the sky?
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:42 PM   #100
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by ronn View Post
to those questioning Chinas ability............


complete BMW motorcycles have been made there for some time for the Germans


I am sure they have no interest in throwing their high quality business model away.


the chinese can make poor quality or great quality- all depends what you want to pay.
I just read recently where Scat crankshafts are made in China then shipped to Redondo Beach, Calif. for machining and sales. Scat cranks are pretty top of the line, good units.
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