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11-05-2015, 06:53 PM | #1 |
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1955 Ford poor brake performance
Brake System completely rebuilt with new wheel cylinders, brake shoes, master cylinder, flex lines, USA made drums, Adjusted anchor pins, no power brake booster, and still have poor braking!
Is it a poorly designed system? Anyone with any experience or thoughts. I hate to pin it on poor brake lining. That's more like wishfull thinking. |
11-05-2015, 08:07 PM | #2 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
It may be just the nature of the beast. Old Ford manual brakes always seemed to require more pedal effort than the competing brands. Call it poor design if you wish. Eventually you factor it in to your driving habits and using them effectively becomes 2nd nature.
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11-05-2015, 08:23 PM | #3 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Try pressure bleeding each wheel cylinder one at a time starting with the furthest wheel cylinder from the master cylinder. I believe it is a myth that you can successfully gravity-bleed the lines when these have such high points where air pockets can get trapped, such as where the line runs near the top of the frame crossmember.
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11-05-2015, 08:23 PM | #4 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
is it possible that not all the air was bled out of the system, or maybe the shoes are not adjusted close enough to the drums.
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11-05-2015, 08:24 PM | #5 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Did you manually adjust them first?
What procedure did you use to bleed the brakes? With new shoes & drums it may take a couple hundred miles for those parts to 'settle in'. If your daily driver has power disc brakes, yes there's a real big difference. |
11-05-2015, 09:47 PM | #6 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
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11-05-2015, 10:15 PM | #7 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Are the linings installed correctly ? Short shoe forward ?
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11-05-2015, 11:46 PM | #8 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Today's brake linings aren't as good as the old asbestos ones. One lost art is fitting the shoes to the drums. It may be, as dmsfrr says, they will settle in. If you don't feel safe in the meantime, you might pull one brake, lay the shoes in the drum, and look at the contact. Good mechanics in the old day fit the shoes to the drums as sets, individually.
The other thing is the adjustment. The shoes don't move a lot, so it's more critical. If you haven't done a lot of drums, find someone who has. When I bought my bird, I set them too loose and had a similar problem. Make sure the parking brake is fully released, I made that mistake, too. |
11-06-2015, 01:26 AM | #9 | |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Quote:
Curious, what do you mean by Poor Braking ? Do you have to pump them up each time you want to use them, OR, do you have a good pedal, but have to stand heavy on it to stop ? Please describe your actual problem, so we can advise you better. .
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11-06-2015, 06:29 AM | #10 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
ditto on Lanny's questions, and also I'd add
- can you reference it against experience you've had with brakes in another '40-50's era car? - do you notice any pulling to one side? - what brake fluid are you using? - did you adjust them as per the shop manual? As Dobbie mentioned, it may be the nature of the beast with these non-assisted brakes. When I first got mine I thought the same, but after bleeding, adjusting, etc. I determined they worked like they should and it was a matter of changing driving habits to match the car.
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11-06-2015, 09:05 AM | #11 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
I did brakes for a living when discs were new... some shops refused to work on them at first! But some of the systems at the time were 4-piston, parts were hard to find and so on.
So, drums it was. Just about every shop had an Ammco shoe arcing machine. Shoes were over-size and were fitted to the individual drum. Rule of thumb back them, keep the front drums within .010 or each other and never turn them over the limit. Things you can do to help yourself now, make sure the brake hardware is good and everything is free and lubed. I know "professional" mechanics who never knew what brake lube was. On new shoes, I bevel the leading and trailing edges of the shoes with a wood rasp. Some shoes come like that. See the attached picture. |
11-06-2015, 09:22 AM | #12 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
There are several answers above to questions not asked. All remedy's are correct. Back when most brake shoes were asbestos, and shoe arching was part of a good brake job, dust was flying all over the shop. There was a time when the shoe arching machines were being tossed in the land fill just to get the dust levels down. This is my answer; when you walk up to a 65 year old car, never compare it to anything other than another 65 year old car. Put your mind back 65 years and enjoy the experience. Don't tail gate, give yourself plenty of room, drive it like a motorcycle. Know where every threat is, and stay away from them. And have fun, that's what the hobby is about.
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11-06-2015, 08:22 PM | #13 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Raise one wheel off the ground and adjust the brake shoes out until they are firmly butted up against the brake drum. Now back the star wheel adjuster screw in the opposite direction ten notches. get up and spin that tire. If there is friction with the adjuster backed off that far, you've got some kinda problem with the shoes. Spin the tire again then quickly get in and smash the brake pedal hard, then go back and spin the tire again and listen for the sound of friction between the shoes and drum. Do all wheels this way. Make sure master cylinder is filled. Have parking brake released when adjusting rear brakes. BTW, some people might say that ten notches out could be too much. Just using ten as a guide. Experiment with that a little bit till you get good performance without having dragging brakes.
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11-06-2015, 08:40 PM | #14 | |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Quote:
My '55 Courier sedan delivery has the exact same brakes, but they are absolutely perfect. That car could stop on a dime and there would be no problem locking up the wheels if I pushed the pedal hard to make an emergency stop. Yes I try to leave lots of room between the Fairlane and the car in front of me when driving on the highway. |
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11-06-2015, 08:47 PM | #15 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
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11-06-2015, 09:04 PM | #16 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
I agree with Ole Don. The brakes back then if not power assisted were not that good even new, so don't try to compare a newer car with discs to an old one. I have almost bent my steering wheel on my 56 back in high school pulling up trying to put enough pressure on the pedal to stop. Of course, I was going way too fast..
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11-06-2015, 09:27 PM | #17 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
I just did a conversion on my ranchero (64) manual disk/ drum it takes a bit of pressure to stop it compared to my 2011 f150 thought the same bled/ re adjusted and got the same results as stated above we can't compare them to modern cars
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11-07-2015, 01:48 AM | #18 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Two things we found out over at the 1952-59 Ford Group on the HAMB that I moderate,if you keep the drum brakes convert them to self adjusting instead of manual and go to a dual master cylinder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXfXKlj2D1I all 52-59's use the same parts. To do the self adjusting upgrade you match the earlier Fords shoes to a later mid sixties and later Ford that use the same shoes as yours as in this example: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...r-a-54.899224/
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11-08-2015, 04:42 PM | #19 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
One last item for you to consider (after answering all of the above questions)...
Did you adjust the eccentric? There is an eccentric to adust from outside the backing plate. It has an offset so that when you rotate it, the cam will butt up against the shoe frame itself. Also, do not forget that the top pin can be adjusted UP or DOWN depending on what you need to increase the contact surface of the ENTIRE brake shoe linings. Hydraulics and good hardware notwithstanding, most of the times these things are how good you can get the set of shoes CENTERED in the drum and then getting the shoes to have even contact across the drum surface. Jeff's idea about self adjusting is certainly fool - proof. Investigate that also.
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11-08-2015, 07:23 PM | #20 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
The chances are you have just fitted a standard lining in an oversized drum.
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11-16-2015, 07:26 AM | #21 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
My '55 sedan has perfect brakes. Assuming you did the proper adjusting and bleeding, the first thing I would check is that you have the correct wheel cylinder and master cylinder bore diameters installed. A larger MC (less psi for a given pedal pressure due to a larger piston area) or smaller wheel cylinder diameter (less total area of the piston face and thus less total pressure for a given pedal pressure) will reduce braking performance. Over the years someone may have installed the wrong parts.
An improperly arched set of shoes should not significantly affect stopping power, but will require more frequent adjusting of brakes until the shoes wear into the drums. |
11-16-2015, 08:36 PM | #22 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Ah, for the old Velvet touch linings again.
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11-17-2015, 02:54 PM | #23 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
'55 Fords have great brakes if properly maintained. I will make a guess here that someone has mismatched the bore diameter of the M/C and/or wheel cylinders. A larger MC bore will cause you to have to press harder on the brake pedal to generate the same psi in the brake lines as a smaller bore. A smaller set of wheel cylinder bores will have the same effect. I would first suspect the M/C since you did not complain of one wheel locking up. Go to your parts store and get a rebuild kit for the '55 application and see if it has the same diameter parts as what you have on board. If it is the same, return it and do the same for the wheel cylinders.
Not arching the shoes will cause you to have to make more frequent brake adjustments, but should not significantly affect brake pedal pressure relative to a given stopping rate. Last edited by Motorhead6; 11-17-2015 at 03:53 PM. |
11-18-2015, 10:13 AM | #24 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
One other thing to consider; today, most of us use radial tires one or two sizes larger. They act like giant flywheels, radials should grip the ground better.
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11-18-2015, 11:11 AM | #25 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Well, everyone is pitching in advice here, and Drewbaby has yet to further explain the symptoms. I drove a 1950 2 dr sedan in high school and other than "fade", never had any problems. I checked and adjusted the brakes every other time I changed the oil and always had a good firm pedal. I've just redone the complete brake system (other than hard lines) on my '58 F100 and will agree with dmsfrr that there could be a m/c problem. The first rebuilt one would never get me any pedal height and almost no pressure at the shoes. With a replacement and bench bleeding, further bleeding after installation was not even required. Good firm pedal now.
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11-19-2015, 10:19 AM | #26 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
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I have correct bore size on wheel cylinders and master cylinders. That was my first thought. As far as arcing the brake shoes, I know that can be done at home by sandpaper fixed to the inside of the drum and fitting the shoes by hand. It didn't need that with new standard 11" drums. As for now I'll enjoy the experience just like "ole Don" stated. I also have a 1934 with mechanical brakes and a 1948 and the brakes on both work fine. Thanks again!! |
11-24-2015, 08:12 AM | #27 |
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Re: 1955 Ford poor brake performance
Is it the original master cylinder still? A smaller bore m/cyl will reduce some of the pedal effort at the expense of pedal travel. A very small amount of pedal travel. As soon as I bought my 56 I swapped out the m/cyl for a dual setup for safety reasons. I just stole the one of another Ford and it works fine. If the pedal is high and firm then you shouldn't have any air in the system. I find my brakes work good but drums aren't know for to many repetitive stops before fading.
On a couple other cars I used a m/cyl from a 85 Ranger. It has a 15/16 bore and worked good in my tbucket. |
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