|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
10-29-2014, 02:52 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,755
|
Re: Broken head studs
Sounds like you are welding the center of the nut, you want
to weld around the outside of the nut. Vince has pictures on his site, see the link. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm Bob |
10-29-2014, 04:33 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Broken head studs
Also be sure to use a large nut, like a 5/8" inside diameter. I do like Ray, except I haven't used water nor an impact wrench. I like to feel what's happening by using a box wrench. The nuts I use usually take a 3/4" wrench.
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
10-29-2014, 04:44 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,496
|
Re: Broken head studs
I back using the head as a template. Make up a few sleeves with OD the same as the stud hole in the head and ID gradually increasing for the drill size you want to use. Put the other studs back in and bolt the head down. Now use your sleeves to guide the drill down the centre of the broken stud. You might have to take the head off a few times to check your progress, especially when you are getting close but after 85 years, a few more minutes doesn't matter.
As a last resort, Helicoils work well so don't despair if it doesn't seem to be going well. |
10-29-2014, 05:38 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 149
|
Re: Broken head studs
Sounds like I may need smaller washers and bigger nuts. The washers I was using were only a little smaller than the studs, and the nuts weren't big enough to do anything other than shoot the wire right down the center.
|
10-29-2014, 06:43 PM | #25 | |
BANNED
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Vallejo, Ca
Posts: 125
|
Re: Broken head studs
Quote:
|
|
10-29-2014, 07:01 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Broken head studs
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
10-29-2014, 07:15 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,099
|
Re: Broken head studs
I've used the torch to melt and blow out the steel threads after drilling as far as possible without getting in to the cast iron threads in the block . I've used this method since the mid ninties and never a problem. I always chase the threads afterward to clean them up, then blow out the holes wiith compressed air. A guy from Burkes mechanical showed me this method and I've never looked back . Sometimes all of the studs can be removed without breaking a single one if you are real lucky. An engine that still has the studs that came from the factory will usually have at least two to break off in the block. In most cases the studs will break at the rear of the engine and cause the engine to have to be removed . Some are just too quick to remove a head that really doesn't even need to be removed in the first place. I've often seen where others would figure that the head gasket was blown because water would spray out around the radiator cap when accellerating or climbing a hill, this is usually caused by an over pumping water pump and a half stopped up radiator. Usually they dispair when the studs start snapping and wish that they had left well enough alone. The washer and nut method never worked for me. If you've got to try it three or four times and it still doesn't work, I figure why waste the time. Most probably end up trying to find a shop that is willing to remove the broken studs .
|
10-29-2014, 07:23 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,755
|
Re: Broken head studs
Use a fender washer, they have a large OD and a small hole.
Bob |
10-29-2014, 08:26 PM | #29 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
|
Re: Broken head studs
fender washer X 2
flux core wire is a low grade product. Can you set your machine up for a bottle? All it takes is a bottle of argon-CO2 and reverse the polarity of the leads inside the case. In fact look at the diagram inside the case and be sure it is set up right for even flux core! I have seen many ppl have the leads reversed out. The only time I couldn't get the weld-washer-nut trick to work (actually I hardly ever use the washer and just weld inside the nut) was when the stud was a grade 8. You need low hydrogen rod/wire to weld grade 8 else it will snap right off. I do not have any 8000 series MIG wire (low hydrogen) , only 7000 series. Maybe someday I will get a small spool for these cases. Whenever I mention this there is a hot shot who jumps on here and tells me he can weld anything with 6013 stick. Which is so bogus as to not be funny. I have been welding literally since I was 5. If this guy shows up, many he would be willing to drive over to your place and weld 'er up
__________________
'31 180A |
10-29-2014, 08:34 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Asheville,NC
Posts: 3,104
|
Re: Broken head studs
Fender washers won't work, the hole is too small and generally, too thin. I have removed many by lots of methods. The method I like best is to weld a 1/2" flat washer to the broken stud after I heat the area surrounding the stud. I have found the block will wick the heat out of the weld and it won't hold. Heating the block at the stud cures this. After the washer is welded, I weld a head nut to it on three sides and flood the area with my favorite penetrant. An impact will usually bring the stud right out. Last week I was brought an engine from a modern with a broken bolt in a recessed hole. The biggest problem with this engine other than it being broken down in the recess and having a broken "easy out" in it was the block was aluminum so, no welding. I tried several different drill bits with no success. This was attributed to the piece of broken easy out. As a last ditch effort, I decided to see what a 3/8" carbide end mill would do. Some careful drilling with the end mill and the top of the bolt began to flatten and the easy out began to cut. I cut it till I felt the bolt move and checked it till I saw the easy out was gone. I drilled it with a starter drill and then a smaller bit and used a large easy out to just remove it. Didn't even scuff the threads and the engine is now back in service. You just have to be willing to use anything at hand to try and get the stud to move. Just be careful and I don't recommend using easy outs, they cause more work and trouble than they fix.
__________________
http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/ |
10-29-2014, 08:44 PM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,755
|
Re: Broken head studs
McMaster-Carr has fender washer for up to 1" fasteners
Bob |
10-29-2014, 09:50 PM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Asheville,NC
Posts: 3,104
|
Re: Broken head studs
Quote:
__________________
http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/ |
|
10-31-2014, 07:04 AM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Broken head studs
Here's a broken bolt I removed from an aluminum jack earlier this summer. This was my fault for trying to remove the bolt without removing the steel roll pin first. I didn't see the roll pin driven into the side of the aluminum, and I snapped off the head while trying to remove the bolt. After welding the washer and nut on I forced it out but gummed up the threads when I forced it past the roll pin. It was lony after the broken bolt was removed that I finally spotted the small hole in the aluminum with the roll pin driven in.
I hold the wire feed in the center of the washer and nut and let the liquid steel flow out to fill the hole. This way it puts the most heat on the broken bolt. |
10-31-2014, 12:03 PM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 149
|
Re: Broken head studs
|
10-31-2014, 01:38 PM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Broken head studs
|
10-31-2014, 03:52 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midland Park,N.J.
Posts: 1,108
|
Re: Broken head studs
At this point I would take the bare block to the machine shop,they will probably charge at least $15.00- $25.00 for each stud,and have them chase all the stud holes.
|
10-31-2014, 06:28 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 149
|
Re: Broken head studs
Engine is still in the car. If it comes out, it may not go back in. Especially if the flathead in the 41 Ford I bought a few days ago turns out crack-free.
|
10-31-2014, 06:32 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 149
|
Re: Broken head studs
Thanks. That's what I tried before, but never got it to stick well. Will try cleaning more and get good, bright metal at the studs. I think contamination of weld has been causing my issue. May also try different washers with larger OD.
|
10-31-2014, 07:17 PM | #39 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
|
Re: Broken head studs
please remember that a flux core weld is a very weak weld. Please consider upgrading to a gas-shielded system. All it takes is one bottle of argon-CO2 available at any welding supply such as AirGas. Google welding supply for your local area there will be several of them.
Also, you can not usually get flux core wire less than .030. This size is too big for what you want to do. You need to use .023 or .025 diam. wire with a bottle. With the right equipment this is an easy job. If you can weld with flux core you can certainly MIG weld with a bottle. I promise you that you will never go back. Flux core is a technology left over from ancient Egypt in the tombs of the pyramids when they tried to weld wood together. At best it barely gets you by to weld fence posts. You can also practice. Take a handful of 1/2" nuts, and some washers, and practice on a piece of 1/8 inch sheet metal or scrap laying around until you get the knack of welding in the hole of a washer, and around the outside of the nut
__________________
'31 180A |
10-31-2014, 07:55 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Broken head studs
Tbird is exactly right, and I'll bet that's the reason it hasn't worked for you.
My friend has a flux core welder and I tried it about 10 years ago. There's no way I would own one, and I paid the extra to buy a Lincoln SP-135, which works well on steel up to 1/8". If I preheat the steel I can even go up to 1/4". At the local high school I used their larger 220 volt Hobart wire welders and sure liked them, but I wouldn't use it enough to justify the cost. |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|