The Ford Barn

1937pickup · 12-11-2016, 01:05 PM

A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about Ford transmission synchronization. I was under the impression that Ford did not use Synchronization until 1939 and then it was a full synchronization. He said it was not synchronized in first gear. I was reading Mac Van Pelts site and it appears 2 and 3 were synchronized beginning in 1932 and improved in 1939. What is unclear to me is, was 1st gear also synchronized in 1939? This is what I thought. If 1st gear did not have synchronization in 1939 when did Ford introduce it?

Thanks.

V8COOPMAN · 12-11-2016, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about Ford transmission synchronization. I was under the impression that Ford did not use Synchronization until 1939 and then it was a full synchronization. He said it was not synchronized in first gear. I was reading Mac Van Pelts site and it appears 2 and 3 were synchronized beginning in 1932 and improved in 1939. What is unclear to me is, was 1st gear also synchronized in 1939? This is what I thought. If 1st gear did not have synchronization in 1939 when did Ford introduce it?

Thanks.

2nd and 3rd gears were synchronised in 1932. Better synchros generally arrived in '39 for 2nd and 3rd gears......1st gear STILL was not synchronised in '39. If memory serves me well, I believe that the first time Ford synchronised a 3-speed trans was probably in the 1964/65 time frame (the Mustang comes to mind). I think the BW 4-speeds had sync'd 1st gears somewhat before that. DD

Bob C · 12-11-2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about Ford transmission synchronization. I was under the impression that Ford did not use Synchronization until 1939 and then it was a full synchronization. He said it was not synchronized in first gear. I was reading Mac Van Pelts site and it appears 2 and 3 were synchronized beginning in 1932 and improved in 1939. What is unclear to me is, was 1st gear also synchronized in 1939? This is what I thought. If 1st gear did not have synchronization in 1939 when did Ford introduce it?

Thanks.

1963 http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...V8_303type.jpg

Bob

Paul Selfe · 12-11-2016, 01:44 PM

I had a new 63 Fairlane hard top with a 260 3 speed, it was either a first that year, or the previous. Paul Selfe.

JM 35 Sedan · 12-11-2016, 01:55 PM

I'm not familiar with Ford model A, or Ford transmissions after the mid 50's, but I know '32 thru '53 pass. car and light comm. vehicles had synchronized 2nd and 3rd, but 1st/rev. were not synchronized. '32 to '38 (maybe some early '39's) did not have the additional brass syncro rings. '39 on up has the improved synchronized system for 2nd and 3rd, with the additional brass rings. I'm not sure when Ford began using synchronized 1st/rev. in their three speed standard transmissions.

V8COOPMAN · 12-11-2016, 02:12 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I'm not sure when Ford began using synchronized 1st/rev. in their three speed standard transmissions.

I'm not sure that any manufacturer ever sync'd REVerse gear. Do you know of a specific trans with sync'd REV gear? DD

adileo · 12-11-2016, 02:57 PM

As an owner of a 39 coupe, I can say for fact DD is correct. 39 was for 2 & 3 but not for first.

37 Cab · 12-11-2016, 03:02 PM

Most late model modern manual transmissions are synchronized in reverse these days. As far as I know the 5 speed Tremec and BW of the 90s were the first rear wheel drive types to use a reverse syncro.

V8COOPMAN · 12-11-2016, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37 Cab

Most late model modern manual transmissions are synchronized in reverse these days. As far as I know the 5 speed Tremec and BW of the 90s were the first rear wheel drive types to use a reverse syncro.

REALLY!

Below are pictures of a Borw-Warner (Tremec) T5 reverse gear. The first picture is REVERSE "UN-engaged". The second picture shows REVERSE gear "engaged". Would you care to point-out EXACTLY where the synchronizer might be for reverse?

I'm almost hearing Al Borland saying..."I don't think so, Tim!" DD

Mart · 12-11-2016, 05:46 PM

There are modern manual transmissions with a synchronised reverse, but not all. Whether 51% or more modern transmissions have it, I don't know, so whether saying "most" have the feature is correct or not is difficult to prove.

Mart.

37 Cab · 12-11-2016, 06:42 PM

REALLY!

Below are pictures of a Borw-Warner (Tremec) T5 reverse gear. The first picture is REVERSE "UN-engaged". The second picture shows REVERSE gear "engaged". Would you care to point-out EXACTLY where the synchronizer might be for reverse?

I don`t have a picture handy but the Tremec T45 Was a reverse synchronized trans used in the 90s. Also the TR3650 was a revised version produced later.
The trans in your pic is a T5 and is not synchronized in reverse.

37 Cab · 12-11-2016, 06:45 PM

Gee wiz Mart.... Are you picking on me?? ha ha.. Kind of like saying most cars are front wheel drive huh?

deucemac · 12-11-2016, 10:32 PM

Ford first went to a fully synchronized 3 speed trans in 1963. I was in high school and Ford donated 3 of these transmissions to our auto shop. Almost immediately, one kid beat on one trying to take it apart and it became replacement parts for the other 2. In 54 years of working on most all makes and model of car, I have never seen reverse synchronized. Maybe I've lived a sheltered life?

J Franklin · 12-11-2016, 11:12 PM

If there is only one speed in reverse why would it need a syncro?

40 Deluxe · 12-12-2016, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

If there is only one speed in reverse why would it need a syncro?

For the same reason 1st gear is synchronized: So you don't get that horrible grinding sound going into gear.

V8COOPMAN · 12-12-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37 Cab

I don`t have a picture handy but the Tremec T45 Was a reverse synchronized trans used in the 90s. Also the TR3650 was a revised version produced later.
The trans in your pic is a T5 and is not synchronized in reverse.

Tommy (37 Cab)......I must say, after looking into this bizarre (to me) information, that you are somewhat correct, and that I am certainly somewhat full-of-it. In your case, there are a relative FEW transes (not MANY) out there that have been graced with sync'd REVERSE. I'm really not sure that it could be said that the engineering and expense is worth it to keep from grinding on occasion when searching for REVERSE. I've always simply shifted into a forward gear (with synchros) to stop the rotation, and then stab reverse.....NO grinding!

Some of us (me) learn something new almost every day. I surely didn't intend to sound like a know-it-all. Interesting topic! DD

Mart · 12-12-2016, 04:59 PM

For me too, it was a surprise to find some gearboxes had synchro'd reverse. Getrag transmissions from Germany are used in many performance cars and at least some of those have the feature.

Mart.

Mike51Merc · 12-12-2016, 05:31 PM

I've got a couple of manual transmission Audis with synched reverse, not that I'd really need it. It just makes shifting easier overall.

Also, I know that some later T5s (World class?) had a reverse brake that acts like a synchronizer by keeping the gears from freewheeling.

https://cobratransmission.com/images...nchro-cone.JPG

12-11-2016, 01:05 PM	#1
1937pickup Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 586	Transmission question. A friend of mine and I got into a discussion about Ford transmission synchronization. I was under the impression that Ford did not use Synchronization until 1939 and then it was a full synchronization. He said it was not synchronized in first gear. I was reading Mac Van Pelts site and it appears 2 and 3 were synchronized beginning in 1932 and improved in 1939. What is unclear to me is, was 1st gear also synchronized in 1939? This is what I thought. If 1st gear did not have synchronization in 1939 when did Ford introduce it? Thanks.

12-11-2016, 01:44 PM	#4
Paul Selfe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Novelty, Ohio Posts: 136	Re: Transmission question. I had a new 63 Fairlane hard top with a 260 3 speed, it was either a first that year, or the previous. Paul Selfe.

12-11-2016, 01:55 PM	#5
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Transmission question. I'm not familiar with Ford model A, or Ford transmissions after the mid 50's, but I know '32 thru '53 pass. car and light comm. vehicles had synchronized 2nd and 3rd, but 1st/rev. were not synchronized. '32 to '38 (maybe some early '39's) did not have the additional brass syncro rings. '39 on up has the improved synchronized system for 2nd and 3rd, with the additional brass rings. I'm not sure when Ford began using synchronized 1st/rev. in their three speed standard transmissions. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

12-11-2016, 02:57 PM	#7
adileo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,772	Re: Transmission question. As an owner of a 39 coupe, I can say for fact DD is correct. 39 was for 2 & 3 but not for first.

12-11-2016, 03:02 PM	#8
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Transmission question. Most late model modern manual transmissions are synchronized in reverse these days. As far as I know the 5 speed Tremec and BW of the 90s were the first rear wheel drive types to use a reverse syncro. __________________ Tommy Last edited by 37 Cab; 12-11-2016 at 03:03 PM. Reason: sp

12-11-2016, 05:46 PM	#10
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,745	Re: Transmission question. There are modern manual transmissions with a synchronised reverse, but not all. Whether 51% or more modern transmissions have it, I don't know, so whether saying "most" have the feature is correct or not is difficult to prove. Mart.

12-11-2016, 06:42 PM	#11
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Transmission question. REALLY! Below are pictures of a Borw-Warner (Tremec) T5 reverse gear. The first picture is REVERSE "UN-engaged". The second picture shows REVERSE gear "engaged". Would you care to point-out EXACTLY where the synchronizer might be for reverse? I don`t have a picture handy but the Tremec T45 Was a reverse synchronized trans used in the 90s. Also the TR3650 was a revised version produced later. The trans in your pic is a T5 and is not synchronized in reverse. __________________ Tommy

12-11-2016, 06:45 PM	#12
37 Cab Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Miami Oklahoma Posts: 535	Re: Transmission question. Gee wiz Mart.... Are you picking on me?? ha ha.. Kind of like saying most cars are front wheel drive huh? __________________ Tommy Last edited by 37 Cab; 12-11-2016 at 07:08 PM.

12-11-2016, 10:32 PM	#13
deucemac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tehachapi, Ca. Posts: 208	Re: Transmission question. Ford first went to a fully synchronized 3 speed trans in 1963. I was in high school and Ford donated 3 of these transmissions to our auto shop. Almost immediately, one kid beat on one trying to take it apart and it became replacement parts for the other 2. In 54 years of working on most all makes and model of car, I have never seen reverse synchronized. Maybe I've lived a sheltered life?

12-11-2016, 11:12 PM	#14
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: Transmission question. If there is only one speed in reverse why would it need a syncro?

12-12-2016, 04:59 PM	#17
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,745	Re: Transmission question. For me too, it was a surprise to find some gearboxes had synchro'd reverse. Getrag transmissions from Germany are used in many performance cars and at least some of those have the feature. Mart.

12-12-2016, 05:31 PM	#18
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: Transmission question. I've got a couple of manual transmission Audis with synched reverse, not that I'd really need it. It just makes shifting easier overall. Also, I know that some later T5s (World class?) had a reverse brake that acts like a synchronizer by keeping the gears from freewheeling. https://cobratransmission.com/images...nchro-cone.JPG