The Ford Barn

jerrytocci · 06-19-2023, 08:15 PM

How can water get onto gas tank?? Been driving this car for one and a half years with no problems. The tank is lined. Yesterday the car died because of water. I removed the bowl and drained about two quarts and cleaned the carb. Got it started. We had heavy rain the night before but gas cap was on. Have not gassed up in a month.

Gary WA · 06-19-2023, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrytocci

How can water get onto gas tank?? Been driving this car for one and a half years with no problems. The tank is lined. Yesterday the car died because of water. I removed the bowl and drained about two quarts and cleaned the carb. Got it started. We had heavy rain the night before but gas cap was on. Have not gassed up in a month.

could be from the gas station where you last purchased!? year and model of your A?

jerrytocci · 06-19-2023, 09:24 PM

The gas station changed to Circle K day after I filled. That was about six weeks ago. My chassis is 1930 and has a home made wood body

jerrytocci · 06-19-2023, 09:26 PM

[attach]20210425_134505.jpg [/attach]

Bob from Northport · 06-19-2023, 09:47 PM

Ethanol gas absorbs water. Use ONLY NONethanol gas in your cars

TomInCologne · 06-19-2023, 10:37 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob from Northport

Ethanol gas absorbs water. Use ONLY NONethanol gas in your cars

That has obviously nothing to do with this problem, water came into the tank during the rain. And... to get the water completely out of the system, i would get Ethanol gas on the next fill-up and then drive it...

WHN · 06-20-2023, 07:01 AM

I like your car! Looks like it would be a lot of fun.

Enjoy.

Oldbluoval · 06-20-2023, 07:32 AM

“drained about two quarts and cleaned the carb.”

Of water only? Depending on climate I might have thought condensation but not 2 quarts.
I would have understanding of leaking out but not in!

Flathead Fever · 06-20-2023, 07:48 AM

It probably was the rain, but it would be strange for that much to get by the gas cap. Its always possible it came from the gas station, but stations have water sensors in the inground tanks that immediately go off when they detect moisture. They notify an offsite monitoring company, and it shuts the pump down. So most likely it's not from the gas stations tank. The gas station parkimng lot tank covers are sealed with rubber gaskets to prevent water getting in but they do sometimes leak if the delivery driver does not get the covers' sealed back on correctly. The covers are slightly higher so water drains away from them in the parking lot. You will also see the stations throw rubber mats over the covers on rainy days because if that moisture monitor comes on they are shut down until the problem is fixed. It's not like in the old days when you got a bad load of gas at the gas station and your car would barely run until you used up thsat tank and got good tank of fuel. That fuel is also filtered one last time through a spin on cartridge inside the gas pump before going into your vehicle. Back in the 1980s we would stick the tank nightly to see how much fuel was in it and we had this stuff we put on the end of the stick that turned pink to show how much water was laying in the bottom of the old rusty metal tank, usually an inch or two of water in the bottom. You never wanted to fill-up from an inground metal tank that was almost empty back in those days. After every fuel delivery we stuck the tank with the stick to make sure there was no water in that 8800-gallon delivery.

jerrytocci · 06-20-2023, 08:43 AM

Could the Florida climate do it?

jerrytocci · 06-20-2023, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHN

I like your car! Looks like it would be a lot of fun.

Enjoy.

Thank you. It is a lot of fun and quite the attention getter.

Ramman · 06-20-2023, 08:58 AM

Plus, if you're worried about what's in the bottom of the tank, you didn't get all the water off the bottom. By design, if the shut-off valve has it's strainer intact, it leaves about 1/4"-3/8" in the tank that can only be removed by pulling the valve.

jerrytocci · 06-20-2023, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

“drained about two quarts and cleaned the carb.”

Of water only? Depending on climate I might have thought condensation but not 2 quarts.
I would have understanding of leaking out but not in!

It two qts. of water and gas mix

J Franklin · 06-20-2023, 10:15 AM

I think you could drain the water off and do as TomInCalogne suggested. maybe just a gallon of ethanol to sweep the residual water out, and then use fresh non-ethanol gasoline.

Brad in Germany · 06-20-2023, 12:38 PM

Sounds like you are using the typical ethanol gasoline and not using a fuel preserver at every fill up. ....and you probably have a pencil filter on your shut off valve? With out the fuel preserver, the ethanol gasoline will eventually absorb so much water from the air that the water separates out and collects at the bottom of your tank (water is heavier than the gasoline).....eventually filling up the area below your pencil filter.

If you shine a flashlight in your gas tank (spark arrestor removed) and slightly rock your car back-and-forth, you can see the water accumulation (if there is any) sloshing around at the bottom of the tank, around the fuel shot off valve top.

....my $0.02,
Brad in Maryland

jerrytocci · 06-20-2023, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad in Germany

Sounds like you are using the typical ethanol gasoline and not using a fuel preserver at every fill up. ....and you probably have a pencil filter on your shut off valve? With out the fuel preserver, the ethanol gasoline will eventually absorb so much water from the air that the water separates out and collects at the bottom of your tank (water is heavier than the gasoline).....eventually filling up the area below your pencil filter.

If you shine a flashlight in your gas tank (spark arrestor removed) and slightly rock your car back-and-forth, you can see the water accumulation (if there is any) sloshing around at the bottom of the tank, around the fuel shot off valve top.

....my $0.02,
Brad in Maryland

I bought gas treatment today and plan on using it , going forward(maybe even reverse)

rotorwrench · 06-20-2023, 02:30 PM

All fuel tanks are vented in one fashion or another. Moist air goes right in through the vent. The air heats up during the day and then cools back off at night. The cooling causes condensation to form up in the top of the tank.

A lot depends on how much moisture is in th air and how large the temperature change is through a 24-hour cycle. This can happen in any type of tank but it most prevalent in a tank that sets out in the sun during the day. Most commercial tanks have a way to drain the condense that forms in the lowest part of a tank. Aircraft all have sump drains and it's part of a preflight to drain a sample and check for water.

Automobiles have not been equipped with sump drains and modern fuel has enough ethanol content that it absorbs the water and rolls around in the bottom of the tank until it either gets drawn out or drained out at removal of the tank. If the OP keeps the vehicle garaged and full of fuel then it is less likely to condense but most folks don't do that. Some filling stations and bulk plants may not sump their tanks well so it pays to purchase from a reliable source.

Gene F · 06-20-2023, 02:42 PM

Put a bottle of dry gas in, and just keep an eye on it for a while.

Dino's A · 06-21-2023, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene F

Put a bottle of dry gas in, and just keep an eye on it for a while.

Or use 99% alcohol and presto, "Drygas"!

But just banned in California....(99% alcohol)

2 quarts getting in? Wow! You folks have real rainstorms in Florida.

rotorwrench · 06-21-2023, 11:20 AM

If the tank lid was left off it could but I'd guess it came that way from a commercial fuel source.

Water, being a pretty good bit heavier than gasoline, will always go to the bottom of the tank. The sediment bowls on model A cars were also water traps. The old cast iron ones have a drain valve on them. The glass bowl types will allow the operator to see if it has water in it but it has to be removed to drain the water. Gasoline usually has enough color that a person can tell that it has a clear water in the bottom of it. Using a pencil filter in the tank will trap the water in the bottom of the tank at least up to the level of the filter screen. Stand pipes will do the same thing. Methanol will only absorb so much water before it is saturated so it tends to stay at the bottom after saturation. A person would need a lot bigger jets in the carburetor to run the alcohol. A small amount may run the engine but it would likely bog down a bit as it was trying to run it due to the water content.

06-19-2023, 08:15 PM	#1
jerrytocci Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 235	Water in tank How can water get onto gas tank?? Been driving this car for one and a half years with no problems. The tank is lined. Yesterday the car died because of water. I removed the bowl and drained about two quarts and cleaned the carb. Got it started. We had heavy rain the night before but gas cap was on. Have not gassed up in a month.

06-19-2023, 09:24 PM	#3
jerrytocci Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 235	Re: Water in tank The gas station changed to Circle K day after I filled. That was about six weeks ago. My chassis is 1930 and has a home made wood body

06-19-2023, 09:47 PM	#5
Bob from Northport Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 215 E. 6th Street Northport, Michigan 49670 Posts: 949	Re: Water in tank Ethanol gas absorbs water. Use ONLY NONethanol gas in your cars __________________ Bob from Northport Northport, Michigan

06-20-2023, 07:01 AM	#7
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,829	Re: Water in tank I like your car! Looks like it would be a lot of fun. Enjoy.

06-20-2023, 07:32 AM	#8
Oldbluoval Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Signal Mtn, TN (SE TN) Posts: 2,375	Re: Water in tank “drained about two quarts and cleaned the carb.” Of water only? Depending on climate I might have thought condensation but not 2 quarts. I would have understanding of leaking out but not in!

06-20-2023, 07:48 AM	#9
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,097	Re: Water in tank It probably was the rain, but it would be strange for that much to get by the gas cap. Its always possible it came from the gas station, but stations have water sensors in the inground tanks that immediately go off when they detect moisture. They notify an offsite monitoring company, and it shuts the pump down. So most likely it's not from the gas stations tank. The gas station parkimng lot tank covers are sealed with rubber gaskets to prevent water getting in but they do sometimes leak if the delivery driver does not get the covers' sealed back on correctly. The covers are slightly higher so water drains away from them in the parking lot. You will also see the stations throw rubber mats over the covers on rainy days because if that moisture monitor comes on they are shut down until the problem is fixed. It's not like in the old days when you got a bad load of gas at the gas station and your car would barely run until you used up thsat tank and got good tank of fuel. That fuel is also filtered one last time through a spin on cartridge inside the gas pump before going into your vehicle. Back in the 1980s we would stick the tank nightly to see how much fuel was in it and we had this stuff we put on the end of the stick that turned pink to show how much water was laying in the bottom of the old rusty metal tank, usually an inch or two of water in the bottom. You never wanted to fill-up from an inground metal tank that was almost empty back in those days. After every fuel delivery we stuck the tank with the stick to make sure there was no water in that 8800-gallon delivery.

06-20-2023, 08:43 AM	#10
jerrytocci Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 235	Re: Water in tank Could the Florida climate do it?

06-20-2023, 08:58 AM	#12
Ramman Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Findlay, Ohio Posts: 95	Re: Water in tank Plus, if you're worried about what's in the bottom of the tank, you didn't get all the water off the bottom. By design, if the shut-off valve has it's strainer intact, it leaves about 1/4"-3/8" in the tank that can only be removed by pulling the valve.

06-20-2023, 10:15 AM	#14
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,979	Re: Water in tank I think you could drain the water off and do as TomInCalogne suggested. maybe just a gallon of ethanol to sweep the residual water out, and then use fresh non-ethanol gasoline.

06-20-2023, 12:38 PM	#15
Brad in Germany Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Potomac, Maryland Posts: 913	Re: Water in tank Sounds like you are using the typical ethanol gasoline and not using a fuel preserver at every fill up. ....and you probably have a pencil filter on your shut off valve? With out the fuel preserver, the ethanol gasoline will eventually absorb so much water from the air that the water separates out and collects at the bottom of your tank (water is heavier than the gasoline).....eventually filling up the area below your pencil filter. If you shine a flashlight in your gas tank (spark arrestor removed) and slightly rock your car back-and-forth, you can see the water accumulation (if there is any) sloshing around at the bottom of the tank, around the fuel shot off valve top. ....my $0.02, Brad in Maryland

06-20-2023, 02:30 PM	#17
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,464	Re: Water in tank All fuel tanks are vented in one fashion or another. Moist air goes right in through the vent. The air heats up during the day and then cools back off at night. The cooling causes condensation to form up in the top of the tank. A lot depends on how much moisture is in th air and how large the temperature change is through a 24-hour cycle. This can happen in any type of tank but it most prevalent in a tank that sets out in the sun during the day. Most commercial tanks have a way to drain the condense that forms in the lowest part of a tank. Aircraft all have sump drains and it's part of a preflight to drain a sample and check for water. Automobiles have not been equipped with sump drains and modern fuel has enough ethanol content that it absorbs the water and rolls around in the bottom of the tank until it either gets drawn out or drained out at removal of the tank. If the OP keeps the vehicle garaged and full of fuel then it is less likely to condense but most folks don't do that. Some filling stations and bulk plants may not sump their tanks well so it pays to purchase from a reliable source. Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-20-2023 at 04:45 PM.

06-20-2023, 02:42 PM	#18
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,998	Re: Water in tank Put a bottle of dry gas in, and just keep an eye on it for a while.

06-21-2023, 11:20 AM	#20
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,464	Re: Water in tank If the tank lid was left off it could but I'd guess it came that way from a commercial fuel source. Water, being a pretty good bit heavier than gasoline, will always go to the bottom of the tank. The sediment bowls on model A cars were also water traps. The old cast iron ones have a drain valve on them. The glass bowl types will allow the operator to see if it has water in it but it has to be removed to drain the water. Gasoline usually has enough color that a person can tell that it has a clear water in the bottom of it. Using a pencil filter in the tank will trap the water in the bottom of the tank at least up to the level of the filter screen. Stand pipes will do the same thing. Methanol will only absorb so much water before it is saturated so it tends to stay at the bottom after saturation. A person would need a lot bigger jets in the carburetor to run the alcohol. A small amount may run the engine but it would likely bog down a bit as it was trying to run it due to the water content.