F1 steering in a 32 roadster

[qmdv]

I have it pretty much figured out accept for the wheel. I want to put in a 40 ford steering wheel but the F1 is splined and the 40 is tapered with a key.

Anybody shorten the column by cutting off the wheel end and machining in a taper and key.

Tim

[Andy]

I am going thru the same thing but using a F-100 box. The later box shaft is too short to remachine. I am welding on a doner shaft. I made a sleeve after trying to butt weld it . I want to run the stock light switch rod so some weld bump inside won't work.

[qmdv]

I think that the F1 has enough extra length to just cut off an inch and re machine. Just wondering if anybody else did that.

I was also considering the doner shaft but hate to cut the end off a perfectly good shaft that someday somebody will really need.

Tim

[Pete]

Originally Posted by qmdv

I have it pretty much figured out accept for the wheel. I want to put in a 40 ford steering wheel but the F1 is splined and the 40 is tapered with a key.

Anybody shorten the column by cutting off the wheel end and machining in a taper and key.

Tim

Any machine shop should be able to handle that. I have done it many times. I recommend lapping the hub to the shaft after machining to get 100% bearing surface.
I wouldn't weld on any steering part.

[Straightpipes]

Cut and sleeve it. How is the angle of the shaft with the F-1 which comes in at the bottom of the box? I think i used an F-100 for that reason.

[Model A Bill]

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On my coupe I used a donor shaft that would match my wheel.I then used a sleeve about 8" long with a tight fit to both steering shafts.I drilled holes in the sleeve.I clamped it solid to ensure the shaft would remain true.Welded both ends of the sleeve and then rosette welded the sleeve do the steering shafts. This will allow for my horn wire to pass thru without obstruction.I feel confident of my welding ability so I'm not concerned of a structual issue

[deuce_roadster]

Faced with a similar problem, (model T wheel to Mustang steering column) I took a junk Mustang wheel cut the center out of it, turned it down to a "bushing" like adapter, bored out the T wheel so the adapter pressed in, welded the "bushing" into the T wheel center and was done with it. I have access to machine shop tools but you could do it with just a lathe.

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by Model A Bill

On my coupe I used a donor shaft that would match my wheel.I then used a sleeve about 8" long with a tight fit to both steering shafts.

Is the sleeve on inside or outside of shaft?

Tim

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by 1932 V8

It is a great way to strengthen it and it makes your stock steering shaft lock work correctly assuming you are using a stock column drop. Just my 1 cent

That would be my first choice if I had a stock drop. Getting one in good working order is getting harder to do.

Tim

[Chisel]

If you want the steering wheel at the same angle as the 32 box, use a 54 or 55 F100 box and a Vern Tardel shim. A 56 F100 steering shaft is shorter and may not work as easy. As the pictures show the F100 steering shaft is long enough sticking out of the 32 steering column that you can cut the splined area off and have a machine shop taper the shaft, thread the end and put a keyway in it. Very simple and no welding. The Vern Tardel shim sends the column right up between the 32 pedals at the right angle.

[BILL WZOREK]

Chisel:
I am a slow learner / Where is the Vern Tardel shim located in your pictures.
I am sure it was talked about before But I was sent to the principals office that day.
LOL

[Model A Bill]

Originally Posted by qmdv

Is the sleeve on inside or outside of shaft?

Tim

Originally Posted by 1932 V8

What we do is use the stock sleeve that goes on the outside of the shaft for the steering wheel lock . If you do the planning correctly , you can put the splice of your F1 steer shaft to your 40 steer shaft under the stock steering shaft lock sleeve. Then weld the sleeve in place on top of your splice that of course was welded and splice correctly . It is a great way to strengthen it and it makes your stock steering shaft lock work correctly assuming you are using a stock column drop. Just my 1 cent

My sleeve is on the inside I made sure the ends were smooth and burr free not to interfere with the horn wireThe above^^^ will work also and I'm sure it will work without issue.I felt more comfortable with the sleeve being longer

[Tony, NY]

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Chisel:
I am a slow learner / Where is the Vern Tardel shim located in your pictures.
I am sure it was talked about before But I was sent to the principals office that day.
LOL

It's between the steering box mounting flange and the frame. See picture Chisel has showing inside the frame rail (right pic).

[BILL WZOREK]

Ok Now it makes sense. THANKS

[Andy]

Originally Posted by 1932 V8

What we do is use the stock sleeve that goes on the outside of the shaft for the steering wheel lock . If you do the planning correctly , you can put the splice of your F1 steer shaft to your 40 steer shaft under the stock steering shaft lock sleeve. Then weld the sleeve in place on top of your splice that of course was welded and splice correctly . It is a great way to strengthen it and it makes your stock steering shaft lock work correctly assuming you are using a stock column drop. Just my 1 cent

The only problem with using the lock collar is that the bearing will not pass over it. I am going to use a longer but smaller diameter splice and put it below the collar.
The best solution is to put a 32 shaft into the F-100 worm. The bearing span is the same and the worms are the same length. I can a measurement of the shaft length if anybody wants it.
Be carfull with the key orintation. For a 32, the key in the worm is opposite the key for the wheel. This is for a F-100 box. F1 is on the same side.

[NealinCA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The only problem with using the lock collar is that the bearing will not pass over it. I am going to use a longer but smaller diameter splice and put it below the collar.
The best solution is to put a 32 shaft into the F-100 worm. The bearing span is the same and the worms are the same length. I can a measurement of the shaft length if anybody wants it.
Be carfull with the key orintation. For a 32, the key in the worm is opposite the key for the wheel. This is for a F-100 box. F1 is on the same side.

I agree with Andy. I dont like the idea of welding the locking sleeve on because it prevents the box from being dissassembled. I have done it with a thin wall sleeve that would pass through the box, but I prefer to shorthen the shaft to 40-7/8" for a 32 and re-machine the ends.

The taper and key for the steering wheel are pretty simple to duplicate. 2.5* taper, with a #9 woodruff key and 5/8-18 threads.

Many later production shafts and most reproduction shafts are smaller ID and will not take the light rod and lower plate. If that is not a concern, you just cut the top end off and remachine the taper, key and threads.

If you plan to use a the original light rod you will need a larger ID shaft. I have found some of the F1 shafts to have this larger ID, as well as most Late 30's and 40's Gemmer boxes, whether they came out of a Ford, Hudson, Dodge, etc. These shafts were swedged to a smaller ID just at the upper end to give more wall thickness at the taper and thread. If you just cut the top off and re-machine, you will have a thin wall thickness at the threads.

To avoid this, I prefer to machine both ends of the shaft if splined, or just the lower end of a keyed and tapered shaft.

If a splined shaft, I machine the splines off to .625 (this will remove the splines completely), run a die down the existing threads and cut new threads where the splines were, then cut the 2.5* taper below that. The shafts already have a slight taper there, so it just takes a little more to get the correct length. I then cut the threads back to 1/2-9/16" OAL and cut the woodruff key in the taper. I like to leave 1/2-9/16" OAL on the threaded section, as Ford's 7/16" of thread does not seem to give full engagement on the nut. This method retains the thicker wall at the upper end, which I feel is important.

With that end done, press off the worm and cut shaft to approx 40-7/8" for a 32. Then machine the lower end to .742 with a 1/8" keyway 180* off from the steering wheel keyway. The worm can then be pressed back on and you have a shaft just like an original 32.

Hope that helps.

Neal

[JM 35 Sedan]

Not being that familiar with f1 or f100 steering boxes, I am wondering if you could press the worm off the f1/f100 shaft and then press that worm onto a '40 shaft?

[NealinCA]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Not being that familiar with f1 or f100 steering boxes, I am wondering if you could press the worm off the f1/f100 shaft and then press that worm onto a '40 shaft?

Yes, you could, but it would still be too long. I would then cut the length off of the bottom of the shaft as described above and press the worm back on.

Neal

[rotorwrench]

Most of the shafts I've looked at appear to have had the tapered end of the steering tube choked down to a taper before they cut the threads and the woodruff key slot. If a guy puts a shaft into a lathe with a taper attachment, a fair amount more material will be removed on the treaded end than was original making the wall pretty thin where the nut goes on. A person should keep this in mind before attemping to machine a taper on there. It won't be as strong as the OEM attachment.

The welded sleave repair, when properly fabricated and welded is generally stonger than the the original single thickness tube. Near all of the early steel tube aircraft have attachment fittings fabricated this way to make the structure stronger and it works well with 4130 chrome molly tubing. I've done a lot of these repairs and never had one crack yet.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

Yes, you could, but it would still be too long. I would then cut the length off of the bottom of the shaft as described above and press the worm back on.

Neal

I should have thought through my question/suggestion a little more before posting. I was not thinking about shaft length difference, and should have said '39 or earlier shaft with ID that would accept a light/horn rod and taper and thread end for '40 steering wheel. Just seems to me that pressing the worm onto a shaft that already has the correct features for mounting the steering wheel would be simpler than machining taper and threads. Also, in any of these scenarios, it's most likely that the locking sleeve/collar would need to be repositioned on the shaft for the locking column feature to work.