Australian A's

[1928forda]

Hello,
Yesterday, I learned that my model A was Canadian based on all of the build numbers, black emblem, and front bumper clamps. Today, after having someone go look at the car, try noticed a plate under the seat that says its Australian. I was hoping someone could provide insight on the Australian cars, as there is very little info I could find. I did find a small something that said the Australian cars had CA vin numbers.
Any help is appreciated as I am trying to get to the root of this.

[Stretch Cab]

Is there any evidence that it once was right hand drive like maybe the firewall was patched where the steering column goes through or the existing hole isn't quite stock?

[pooch]

Has it got a timber subframe and seat risers ?

[Synchro909]

The mechanicals were Canadian but the bodies were made here. That practice started early in the Model T days and continued till the late 40's when the main body maker (Holden) was taken over by GM to create General Motors Holden (GMH), as GM is known here. Once the new company got itself together, GMH cars were uniquely Australian, designed and built here. Ford did similar including local design and manufacture. These cars were for year considered superior to the parent company's product (no offense intended). Unfortunately, both head offices in Detroit in all there wisdom (????) have decided to shut down their Australian braches in 2016.
Engine numbers on Model As here start with 3 letters. C, A and other followed by a 5 digit number. I have one starting with CAQ, another with CAD and yet another with CAW. There were no numbers on the chassis.

[1928forda]

Yes, seat risers are made from wood. Numbers are ca55443
Like I said there is a plate under the seat saying it's built in Australia. My grandfather once mentioned a conversion from rhd, although I don't see much evidence.

[1928forda]

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I also remember him saying it was built out of a different type of wood then his other model a's. Did they use a certain type of wood in Australia?
I won't be around the car for a few months, and will take very detailed pictures then.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 1928forda

Yes, seat risers are made from wood. Numbers are ca55443
Like I said there is a plate under the seat saying it's built in Australia. My grandfather once mentioned a conversion from rhd, although I don't see much evidence.

There were a few cars that carried the CA prefix with no third letter but I haven't seen many.
Does it have a number stamped into the wood under the front seat?

[1928forda]

I'll have to check on that when I see it...

[1928forda]

If anyone could post some pictures of what I should be looking for it would be greatly appreciated

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 1928forda

I also remember him saying it was built out of a different type of wood then his other model a's. Did they use a certain type of wood in Australia?
I won't be around the car for a few months, and will take very detailed pictures then.

I'm not sure what wood they used but it WILL have been a local variety from an Australian native tree, possibly what we call ash. To us, the woods you guys use are "exotic", just like ours is to you. No maple, no oak or any of the other timbers you have here.
Just as a point of useless trivia, there is no such thing as a deciduous native Australian tree. They are all evergreens.
Isn't it amazing what you can learn on a forum like this!!!!

[1928forda]

Called my grandpa, and it is in fact ash. It has some evidence of a RHD conversion!
This is getting interesting.
I wonder why someone payed to ship to the U.S. And convert when they could buy one here...

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 1928forda

Called my grandpa, and it is in fact ash. It has some evidence of a RHD conversion!
This is getting interesting.
I wonder why someone payed to ship to the U.S. And convert when they could buy one here...

I've heard of a couple of As going to the US over the years. It's usually because an American was living here for a while, bought a Model A to drive and then took it home with him when the time came. Sentimental attachment perhaps?
I'm pursuing an Australian woody (still RHD) at the moment where that is what happened.

[1928forda]

some photos

[Synchro909]

Being an Australian car, you'll have to be a little careful when you buy some body parts like hood (Top) bows. The US ones are different and don't fit.

[1928forda]

I do not plan on selling this car in my lifetime, and I hope my son won't either. That being said, does the Australian build affect value? I'm going to keep digging and get a whole history of this car put together!

[pooch]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

The mechanicals were Canadian but the bodies were made here. That practice started early in the Model T days and continued till the late 40's when the main body maker (Holden) was taken over by GM to create General Motors Holden (GMH), as GM is known here. Once the new company got itself together, GMH cars were uniquely Australian, designed and built here. Ford did similar including local design and manufacture. These cars were for year considered superior to the parent company's product (no offense intended). Unfortunately, both head offices in Detroit in all there wisdom (????) have decided to shut down their Australian braches in 2016.
Engine numbers on Model As here start with 3 letters. C, A and other followed by a 5 digit number. I have one starting with CAQ, another with CAD and yet another with CAW. There were no numbers on the chassis.

I thought the steel bodies were imported minus the subframe and seat risers, and Oz wood was used just there.

Are you saying Geelong stamped the metal bodies inhouse in 1928 ?

[Tudortomnz]

I am no expert on Canadian export A's, but I do own one. Re some of the previous quotes ; the first 150,000 Canadian engines were CA ......., after that they were done in batches of about 10,000 with 3 letters, eg. CAQ, CAE etc. until mid '31.
If your car has an Aussie tag on the seat frame somewhere, it has its true bona fides.
I do not think Geelong was stamping body panels in 1928 or '29 but they were building up these imported panels & using wooden sub & door framing. They were stamping for 1930 '31 [ same, no change to any US '31 types] but not fenders, hoods, just bodywork & probably not all panels were 100% made in Aust.
The top frames of a '28 '29 Phaeton should be the same as Nth America, but not the '30 '31's.
Most foreign Model A's went back to the US with Servicemen in the '60's [ a lot from NZ] because they had a lot more money than us & they went back in Hercules planes for nothing. Open cars were common Downunder then but not so many in the US, hence the Phaetons & roadsters . It still goes on , mostly from Sth America to US & Europe. We buy all your '50's & '60's cars.

[dave in australia]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I'm not sure what wood they used but it WILL have been a local variety from an Australian native tree, possibly what we call ash. To us, the woods you guys use are "exotic", just like ours is to you. No maple, no oak or any of the other timbers you have here.
Just as a point of useless trivia, there is no such thing as a deciduous native Australian tree. They are all evergreens.
Isn't it amazing what you can learn on a forum like this!!!!

Not right, Australia does have native deciduous trees. The Red Cedar, the White Cedar, The Tasmanian Beech, just to name a few. Most, obviously not the Beech, are in the tropics and don't drop leaves in Autumn, but during the wet season. And the most recognised deciduous tree by most Australians is the Boab tree.

The wood used in Australian bodies was Mountain Ash, which is a type of Eucalyptus. The wood was used for main body side stringers, cross pieces between the stringers except the rear and seat risers front and rear. The panel between the front and rear doors has a beefier mount bracket compared to the US phaeton bodies. The phaetons have the side curtain box under the front seat, and is accessed by lifting the front seat base, and sliding the curtains between the seat base support ribs.
Holden never made a lot of bodies for Ford, if any at all, everything I've read and heard says that they didn't. Ford made most of their own bodies, with some more exotic styles made by companies like Propert of Sydney, who made fabric bodied Fordors, and Brownlie and Keats of Launceston who made a body they called a Tudor-Coupe.

[pooch]

And Propert made accessory folding camping bodies for phaetons .

The back of the front seat was hinged and folded down.

And the only wood in the doors is a horizontal piece that looks like an anti intrusion bar sandwiched between the inner frame and outer skin.

I got no idea what this was for, as it would not do anything much.

Would actually help in a T-bone prang, but this was not mandated law until about 1977 to have to fit anti intrusion bars.

I guess all 28/29/s had this wood in door ?

[RUNNERBUN]

[ The phaetons have the side curtain box under the front seat, and is accessed by lifting the front seat base, and sliding the curtains between the seat base support ribs.
.[/QUOTE]
Not sure that this statement is entirely correct. My Phaeton being an early 1928 (AR) had the curtain box under the rear floor. The compartment was just over 2" deep and reached from the rear seat riser to well under the font seat. There was no doubt that the timber was the original.