Volvo vs. Mitchell Over-Drive - who has what?

[DougVieyra]

How many of you 'old farts' drive with the obsolete 'Columbia' two speed rear end ? I have had two in my 50 year history of driving my Ford Model A's. I like my current Michell over-drive much better for a number of reasons.

Ignoring the conversion of the V-8 Ford 'Columbia' "over-drive" rear-end, which was the rage in the late '30's, '40's and 1950's, the later 'over-drive' units were primarily Volvo conversions.

Then awhile later came the Mitchel Over-Drive unit, which now seems to dominate the current market place.

Of these later two (Volvo & Mitchell) over-drive units, how many of you have Mitchell's and how many have the older Volvo's ?

What are your 'selling points' of each, and what are the negitives of each?

[tbirdtbird]

"I like my current Michell over-drive much better for a number of reasons."

such as......

[CarlG]

For me, the best option is the F150 Tremec 4-speed all synchromesh Overdrive.
Pros: everything
Cons: nothing

IMHO

[al's28/33]

Doug,

I purchased the Mitchell new in 2001 when I got my Phaeton thinking I was going to drive at highway speeds everyday of the week.

Yes the idea of an overdrive is to give more speed to your "A" while allowing the engine itself not to have a heart attack in the process.

I quickly learned that it's not the SPEED that I needed to worry about but rather it's the BRAKING and STOP power that has become more important in wanting to keep myself alive for future Sunday drives.

Keeping my "A" between 35-45 MPH is no problem around all the neighborhood country back roads......it's the slowing down and stopping for other drivers and bicyclists who think they can just pull out in front of me.

I sold my Mitchell for some trade-off work about 5 years ago and have never regretted it. Nothing wrong with standard 3 speed the "A" was meant to have. Going any faster in an 88 year old classic car is not the thing for me.

[Del in NE Ohio]

I have the Mitchell in my '29 Town Sedan. I LOVE it. I didn't install it for increased speed. I still tour open road at 45-47 MPH. Seems like a lot less stress on the engine, and less stress on me and my right seat passenger, less engine noise which is a factor when you spend most of the day in that seat. The ability to split gears is a big help on hilly tours (ex Blue Ridge Parkway)

I recently installed one of Gary Bernard's Tremac F150 4 speed kits (4th gear is 22% OD) in my 1931 CCPU.. Love it too!

My problem is I drive my CCPU almost daily and get accustomed to the synchro 4-speed and when I get in the Town Sedan, I find my self coming to a stop and putting the car into reverse as if it were first gear on my truck!!

[Ray in La Mesa]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

This ol' graybeard has been running a Columbia in my "28 pickup for 30 years. 70,000 miles. I love it, not so much for speed but to keep the RPM's down and to split the gears while climbing mountains. Had a BW for a while but didn't like the freewheeling. Have a Mitchell 36% to put in the '30 cabriolet.

[JohnLaVoy]

We did a comparison of the various overdrives available several years ago. Each had some pluses and minuses. The Mitchell was what we decided to use on the sedan because of the ability to split gears while climbing a hill and have loved it. The volvo and borg warner overdrives will give you an overdrive but the downside they are used parts and old while the Mitchell is new. when we put the automatic transmission with the overdrive in the roadster pickup that was a whole different thing. But is taking some getting use to. Going back to why a Mitchell, all new the others all rely on the person building it and making sure the drive line is still true once it is finished.

[tbirdtbird]

we love the Mitchells for gear splitting and our brakes are fully restored to factory spec and work as well as any modern brakes. In fact when I drive other ppl's Model As with juice brakes I cannot tell any difference over our mechanical brakes.
I have had ppl cut me off at speed and have never had a problem stopping appropriately. They can cut you off when you are doing 40 mph, too

[VFRhugh]

I put a used 26% Mitchell in my A last month. It came assembled with wishbones and rear spring. It's increased my driving experience by more than 26%!! My particular engine runs great but vibrates above 2000 RPM at a level that's uncomfortable for me. The local speed limit is 40mph for 80% of my driving so no worries. The Mitchell has expanded my range to cover 50mph cruse comfortably. I live in a very flat area so wind is my only problem. On a calm day 55 is doable. Engine is stock except for a Marvel Carb. On a side note, I needed a different Mitchell speedo cable and dealing with Sue Mitchell was a pleasure.
Hugh

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Del in NE Ohio

My problem is I drive my CCPU almost daily and get accustomed to the synchro 4-speed and when I get in the Town Sedan, I find my self coming to a stop and putting the car into reverse as if it were first gear on my truck!!

That's funny . I do that also. Along with 'double clutching' my modern with a full syncro 5 speed...

Does anyone use the Gear Vendor OD/UD in their Model A. https://www.gearvendors.com/custom.html

[TerryH]

I originally bought a Mitchell for my 1930 Town Sedan as I thought we would be touring more. That has not been the case lately, but I still really like it, as I live in busy Southern Calfornia, and putting at 35-40 is hardly ever an option. A lot of our surface streets are 45-50 mph, so I use it all the time......not just freeway driving at 55-60 mph. It is so easy to operate, just like an extra gear. One of the pleasures is driving at 45 in OD.....the car is so quiet. I also like being able to gear split in the mountains. Bottom line: I would not have a Model A without a Mitchell. And the extra shift lever is not an issue as we never seat 3 in the front anyway.

[Bill Wright]

Mitchell is the best investment I made for my '28 Roadster and '37 sedan.

[inex01]

I really like my Mitchel the majority of my driving is local around town. A real benefit is when I drive in an area that the speed limit is 25 MPH "side streets" I then use the Mitchel in the high position and the transmission in 2nd gear and the engine RPM is perfect for driving 25 - 30 MPH, my rear end is 3.54 so if you are running a 3.78 you obviously would have a slightly higher RPM range.

[russcochiolo]

My roadster has an early serial # Laycock. No records found yet. 'Twas in the car when I became caretaker. It works for me. Following someones advice I put 20-50 synthetic in it and it quit working. Bill Williamson, the Guru, said, "Try ATF". I did and he OD is back! THANKS Brother Bill. Bear said to say, "Howdy" to Buster T for him. Thanks again for the tip. R&B

[Glenn C.]

I now have 3 Mitchell Overdrives coupled with 3 Mitchell Synchromesh Transmissions, in our cars. The only problem that I have found is that the shift leaver in high gear is too close to my right leg when driving long distances. According to Sue Mitchell, her son Steve Mitchell, also being a larger man as myself, has had to modify the configuration of the leavers in their cars to allow for this problem. Other that that.....excellent units !

[Jim Brierley]

I have a mechanically-shifted Columbia in my wide-bed. I put it in 45 years ago, coupled to a 4.11 rear ratio. I still like it very well. I have a Ryan 23% in my tudor, with a 3.78 rear gear, I modified the linkage to lessen the amount of "throw" on the shifter. I like it too but it is a bit noisy below 45 mph. I recently obtained a Vicky with a 5-speed T-5 trans, full syncro. This T-5 has the 4:1 low gear and 26% 5th gear, 4.10 rear. I've not driven the Vicky much yet but I think it will be the best of the bunch. Different ratios are available for the T-5 and I wish it had a higher 1st gear. I have ridden in one A with the Ford 4-speed and it shifted really nice but the ratios stunk! My tudor came with a B-W O.D. which I didn't like at all because of the time it took to shift into O.D. I too live in So-Cal, so use the freeways a lot. I cruise around 65 mph, have a very strong engine and hydraulic brakes. Life is great!

[modelAtony]

I have 31 Tudor, 2001 added 3:27 gears. 2003 loaned car to Paris, TX x-cup team and we added 5.9 brum head and Mitchell overdrive for 2003 GREAT RACE. car was great. 2008 had engine inserted by PETE'S automotive in ALB, NM. and added BRIERLEY cam . Dyno comes in at 65 hp. 60 mph in overdrive rpm 1800. MY Tudor when adding the 3:27 gear would take off from stop sign with 2 , 220 lbs guys in car leaving in 2nd gear and didn't need to ride clutch. The engine then was still pure stock. When I added the Mitchell a whole new world opened up for my driving pleasure. When you have enough driving time you will operate the Mitchell just like your running gear is fully syncro. hAVE FUN MODELaTONY TONY WHITE lAFAYETTE, la

[Tom Endy]

There is also a Ryan overdrive. I have one in my Victoria. It is a 23% with a 378 ring & Pinion. I also had one in a 29 coupe I once owned; it was a 33% with a 411 ring & pinion. The Ryan is a factory made overdrive manufactured by the Dan Ryan Company of Denver. They were manufactured between 1990 and 2000. They subsequently went out of business.

The Ryan is a very well built overdrive that bolts right up to the banjo flange. They came in both 33% and 23%. Inside is four heavy duty straight cut gears that stay in mesh. When shifted two gears are locked and the other two rotate. A shift lever accomplishes the shifting the same as a Mitchell overdrive.

The gears are not syncro-mesh, but shifting into overdrive is accomplished without double clutching. Coming out of overdrive requires double clutching. The Ryan is considered noisy by many. The sound is actually a "singing" sound caused by the straight cut gears. After a while you get use to it and it is not a problem.

The Ryan overdrive can be used with any of the gears of the transmission; very good for climbing a grade in second gear overdrive, or coming down a steep grade as it enables engine braking.

The number built was probably in the thousands. They are still around. Bert's in Denver was one of the retailers at the time.

Tom Endy

[BUDB]

My Volvo overdrive works great, one button shifting shifts fast up or down.
No problems since it was put in 6 years ago.

[Dick M]

Let me start by saying the Mitchell is a fine product. There is nothing bad to say about it. I have the Laycock (Volvo) in my 31 coupe. It has been in the car for the last 4 years. I have had no issues with it. I do enjoy the toggle switch shifter on the shift lever. It is so easy to shift/just flip the switch. I purchased my OD from Rich Little (661-741-2651) in Bakersfield, CA. He goes through the OD unit (bearings, gear lash, etc.) prior to building the torque tube & brackets. BTW, you can certainly split gears with it. It is just awesome in second over when going up or down hills. I believe the Laycock is 27% over vs. the Mitchell which is 26% over. You can not go wrong with either OD. An OD is the best improvement you can make to your Model A.

[modelAsteve]

Love my Volvo!

[larrys40]

Like Tom Endy I run a Ryan in my '30 Tudor and it is a fine unit. I have driven it to Colorado, Canada, Michigan, and many other states. Been up Pikes Peak with it.
I run a 3:54 gear set with 23% Ryan overdrive. It makes it a good around town car and a great highway cruiser as well.

If you can find one used I would snatch it up in a heartbeat for the right price.

Larry Shepard

[Jason in TX]

I love my Volvo Overdrive.

I do love the F150 4 speed conversion and would buy one in a heart beat...

However, we did the Durango Colorado tour last year. We had the Volvo and a 1939 transmission. Other cars had the F150 4 speed.

We were passing all the cars with the F150 4 speed because we were able to split gears. We used 2nd gear with the Overdrive on going through most of the mountain passes. it was great. Lots of power, lower RPMs than regular 2nd.

I would go with a torque tube Overdrive and a synchromesh trans vs the locked in OD that the F150 trans provides.

[Dave in MN]

I have a Mitchell in our touring car. I use 3rd gear and overdrive quite a bit when on the freeway in Minnesota. 2nd gear and overdrive is great in the mountains. I have about 80,000 miles on the Mitchell and have only changed the gear lube. It is highly reliable. The installation was a 1/2 day project in my own shop.

I have no experience with a Volvo OD other than driving a car with one about 10 years ago for a short time. As I recall, the shifting was not as precise.

Both were very quiet when in operation.
Good Day!

[Herb Concord Ca]

My '31 Roadster P/U has BW since 1998. With a 33% step up it's great for a light car/truck.
My '31 Slant T/S has a Volvo built by Rich Little has been in 2 Model A's so, first installed in 2002. Works great!

[norcalal]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have a ryan OD missing one cast piece that I tossed, not knowing what it was will sell for reasonable offer. lfi (408) 354-3875

[Tanglfoot]

I am with Dick M I believe the Mitchel and the Volvo/Laycock are excellent units-both seem to be bullet proof the only difference is in the shifting and price. One has an extra lever in the cab for shifting. The Laycock changes with the flick of a switch attached to the gearlever just like an auto and very easy for splitting gears. Down here a Mitchel costs about $3500.00 compared to about $1800.00 to have a Laycock fitted (Sorry as you say fit) Mitchel have a number of ratios available where the Laycock/Volvo is mostly 25% with some at 28%.

From a very wet and cold Mangawhai NZ.

[blgitn]

Would the Volvo/Laycock be able to handle use in an AA?

[31a]

I have three Mitchells and am very pleased with them. I had a Borg-Warner and replaced it with a Mitchell like the Mitchell much better. I agree the OD is a very good addition to the Model A. In my experience the OD did not increase the top speed.

[DougVieyra]

31 A: " In my experience the OD did not increase the top speed."
______________________________________

Of course, we all understand that an O.D. allows the same speed at a much lower Engine RPM than a stock system, and I do notice that.

But 31A, now that you mention it, even though the Mitchell O.D. is theoretically supposed to give a noticeably higher top-end speed, I do not know IF my Mitchell actually does that.

I am handicapped in doing an 'evaluation' because of the specially-built Ron Kelly 'Touring Engine' that powers my Dlx '31 Coupe. With it's Stromberg carburation/manifold, F.S. Electronic Ignition, Exhaust Headers opened up, etc., etc., the car just goes FAST and POWERFUL. And while it does reach a comfortable cruising speed of 60 mph, so does my stock '28 Phaeton.

[31Abone]

I have a Columbia in ny 30 pickup very good service..you can have your mitchells

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

...I am handicapped in doing an 'evaluation' because of the specially-built Ron Kelly 'Touring Engine' that powers my Dlx '31 Coupe. With it's Stromberg carburation/manifold, F.S. Electronic Ignition, Exhaust Headers opened up, etc., etc., the car just goes FAST and POWERFUL ...[/I][/B]

I also have all these amenities. My current handicap is that I still have about 250 miles to go before my engine builder (Ron Kelley) will permit me go over 50mph or to use my Overdrive. (my OD is not a Volvo or Mitchell, but is a Ford Tremec RTS, which I am chomping at the bit to use with my new engine).

[Tanglfoot]

Blgitn,I have a friend who is running a Laycock in his A behind an 8BA with no problems.

The older you get the better you were.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by forever4

...
Based on available power, and the rpms where that max power is made, intelligent choices can be made about what kind of transmission and rear end gearing will best enable use of that power.

http://www.modelaparts.net/dynosheet...ynosheets.html

[barkleydave]

I guess I might be old school. While I did improve brakes with cast iron and safety with 12V for lighting etc. I guess if you are looking for more speed and are willing to spend the bucks on overdrives (none even close to orig.), why mess with the underpowered model A engine? At what point have you crossed the line and now have entered the "Custom Car" arena? Just asking...

[Fred A]

Originally Posted by barkleydave

I guess I might be old school. While I did improve brakes with cast iron and safety with 12V for lighting etc. I guess if you are looking for more speed and are willing to spend the bucks on overdrives (none even close to orig.), why mess with the underpowered model A engine? At what point have you crossed the line and now have entered the "Custom Car" arena? Just asking...

"Custom car" is an unusual way of describing it, but I think of an overdrive as an other adapter to bring the 85+ year old car into the next century, in the same spirit as the safety mods like brakes and lights. None being "even close to orig." is to assume a modification is intended to be original. Crossing the line is where there is no return, as I did when I cut my perfect frame to lower the rear. During all those 85 years, the Model A went through many phases, all historically significant. More than 60 years ago at the peak of overdrive popularity, Borg-Warners were being grafted into Ford drivetrains. Drive those old cars! Fred A

[ccb360]

'29 TS + Mitchell OD = a great touring car!

[Jason in TX]

Originally Posted by blgitn

Would the Volvo/Laycock be able to handle use in an AA?

The Volvo/Laycock overdrive is now serviced by GearVendors and they use these similary if not the same technology in 2000HP race cars, rock crawlers, fleet vehicles, 4x4 equipment, etc. It's a good solid unit. I think you would have no problems with one spliced into the torque tube of your AA.

https://www.gearvendors.com/

[DougVieyra]

Within the spirit of 'controversy', when all the 'dust' has settled, it must be said that at the very bottom of the discussion there is the fact that using an over-drive, does for the most part, reduce engine RPMs for the same driving speed as a non-O.D. engine. As such, it would seem to me (a non-mechanic) that the reduced RPMs should help increase engine life, while still giving good motive power. That is to say, an O.D. gives the same speed as a non O.D., with significantly reduced engine RPM, hence (all things being equal) longer engine life.

Of course, all things are seldom equal, so in the long run, perhaps it really does not matter. But if nothing more than psychological, I REALLY enjoy having a Mitchel Over Drive in my '31 Dlx Coupe. And 65 years ago I enjoyed having a Columbia Rear End in my '28 Sedan.

[Jason in TX]

Reduces engine RPM, prolonging engine life AND saving gas.

There is an ROI case that can be made for purchasing one.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Another plus for overdrive is a quieter ride, and usually less vibration.

[blgitn]

Thanks tanglfoot & Jason: That's the kind of info I was looking for!

[updraught]

Ford changed all the ratios, probably for the worse, in 1930 for the fashionable look of the 19 inch wheel.

[Speedyal]

I recently bought a 30 coupe with a BorgWarner overdrive unit. I have to say I love it .Being able to drive it at faster speeds and also a lot less engine vibration and less stress on engine. I would defiantly install a overdrive in another car. Also as far as the brakes for stopping I just make sure they are adjusted right. Yes it doesn't stop on a dime but weather your going 35mph or 50mph in these cars you always have to scan ahead and be prepared to stop because most people don't realize theses cars have mechanical brakes. Just my two cents.

[32forddump]

I was at Hershey this past week and came across a Volvo od unit in the model a torque tube and rear end. All complete. They even threw in the transmission. I picket it up for $1000.00. I plan to install it in my 29 roadster in the spring. Cant wait!!