Water in Crankcase

[DougVieyra]

So today I checked my oil level in my Model A and found a thick grayish 'oil' all the way up the dip stick. Checked it three times, the stuff went all the way up to the bottom of the bayonet handle.

I tried doing a 'search' on the FB Forum: "Water in Crankcase", but must not be doing it right - nothing came up. Well, lots of stuff came up - but nothing to do with 'Water in the Crankcase".

So that leaves me to pester you reliable folks in the Forum, with the question:
"What causes water to get into the crankcase?" I am familiar with the standard "Head Gasket leaks", "Water inlet & outlet gasket leaks". Where else might I need to look for a solution to the problem?

- Doug Vieyra

[WestCoast]

that's usually a problem associated with a cracked block, run a compression check to see what cylinder is causing the problem, check the plugs as you pull them to see if any have water on them, if the engine has been run for awhile with the water leaking in the cylinder that plug will be clean, no soot or carbon on it, it may also be very white

[1946]

Had the same problem, and had to have two 'rescue' cylinder sleeves fitted and re-bored.It got bad enough to see water globules (lumps) in the oil when the sump was drained. The problem was a crack in #3 cylinder bore that you could feel with your thumb nail and #2 looked to be 'bruised'- dark patches in the bore, so while at the machine shop I had the old studs removed, and the block decked. It is now in my workshop awaiting a rebuild/ assembly.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I thought I was buying a good block at an auction about 12 years ago. I found a long crack in the valve chamber caused by using water in freezing temps.

[colin1928]

It is possible it is just a blown head gasket
Only by tearing it down and inspection will you know for sure
has it been using coolant or running poorly ??

[Mitch//pa]

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maybe you can try a leak down test first to determine if a head or head gasket issue exists.maybe something will show up in the radiator.
have the oil drain plug out when doing the leak down so you can see if any coolant starts coming out while pressurizing each cylinder....
maybe you will have a road to head down this way instead of exploratory surgery...

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by colin1928

It is possible it is just a blown head gasket
Only by tearing it down and inspection will you know for sure
has it been using coolant or running poorly ??

But there aren't any oilways in the head- do you think the water may have seeped through a poor head gasket into the cylinder bore and trickled down there ?

[DougVieyra]

replying to post #5:

The car was used regularly (without problems) until about five months ago when health issues caused me to park the car in the garage.

Yesterday, before I tried to start it up, I checked the oil and found the oil/water issue. In trying to get the car to start, after charging the battery, I found that it would not start - fuel issue most likely - corn gas !

So now I am first needing to get it to start, then I'll look into what is happening to let water into the crank-case.

- Doug Vieyra

[Y-Blockhead]

That sux Doug, Hope your over your health issues.

[barkleydave]

Before you run and do more damage looks like a teardown is in order

[Brian T]

Doug,
I assume the radiator was empty?, I would drain the oil-water mixture over a few days, refill with oil then concentrate on getting the engine running, fresh fuel, clean the point contacts, check for spark.
You posted a few days ago in regards to water in the fuel tank, both problems maybe caused from condensation build up, not much to lose here by trying before tearing down the engine.

[1931 flamingo]

Drain the oil and change BEFORE you try to start it. JMO
Paul in CT

[ModelADrew]

I'm having a similar issue. What was your outcome?
Thanks.

[DougVieyra]

Model A Drew: " I'm having a similar issue. What was your outcome? "
_______________________________________________

BACKGROUND: A few months earlier I had begun a long and thorough effort to clean the rusty crud, melted 'sealer', and other manner of flotsam from my gas tank. Part of that process was to remove my instrument panel from the gas tank, so as to gain access to the gas tank.

To accomplish that I had to loosen the head-bolt that secures the ignition/distributor cable. I suspect that when reassembling everything, the head-bolt did not get sufficiently tightened to prevent water seepage into my engine, which eventually worked its way down to the oil pan.

Of course it took a bit of trial and error investigating to find that conclusion. But once I did the proper method of tightening ALL of the head-nuts, I have not had the problem since.

[100IH]

Just for a more complete understanding, On a more modern engine with a pressurized cooling system, the technician would remove all of the sparkplugs and then pressurize the system with a cooling system pressure tester to a safe level. Then crank the engine with the ignition disabled. Vapors or spray would be seen at the cyl. where the leak was occurring. Now you would know where to look before teardown. Our radiators aren't able to withstand much pressure if any.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by 100IH

Just for a more complete understanding, On a more modern engine with a pressurized cooling system, the technician would remove all of the sparkplugs and then pressurize the system with a cooling system pressure tester to a safe level. Then crank the engine with the ignition disabled. Vapors or spray would be seen at the cyl. where the leak was occurring. Now you would know where to look before teardown. Our radiators aren't able to withstand much pressure if any.

How do you differentiate fuel vapors from water vapors, esp on a small leak...
That's not the way I would do it.....

[kippmw]

I had this exact problem. It ended up being a head gasket leak due to a slightly warped head. I had the head planed and put a new head gasket on. The water must have been making its' way past the rings. 1k miles since with no problems.

[goodoldvic]

If ya didn't drain the coolant level below the head it might have leaked past that number 8 stud. Maybe change the oil and check the torque on that stud. Good luck

[miff]

I had this issue with a new rebuild. Installed the engine . Connecting all the hoses . Put in the right amount of oil . Starting filling the radiator. It keep taking water. After almost four gallons and no leaks. I checked the oil. I found the additional water . Called the rebuilder , drain the crank case . Pulled the distributor . You could see the water running the hole . Pulled the motor had a collar meachined and installed in the block . Have not had any more water in the pan . Hope this might help . Miff

[friedmac]

My Brother and I have both had oil in the radiator, what would cause that. The difference between mine and his, is that his is a rebuilt engine, mine is old and used. Thank you Craig 321-427-7861 cell, Melbourne, Florida.

[Al 29Tudor]

I had a bad head gasket about 3.5 years ago. So much water in the engine it was coming out the tailpipe.
Installed a new head gasket and milled the head and all is well.
Al

[C26Pinelake]

Did Doug ever get his problem resolved and what was the outcome from a tear ago? Wayne.

[eagle]

Originally Posted by friedmac

My Brother and I have both had oil in the radiator, what would cause that. The difference between mine and his, is that his is a rebuilt engine, mine is old and used. Thank you Craig 321-427-7861 cell, Melbourne, Florida.

Over greasing the water pump?

[Special Coupe Frank]

Do NOT start or even crank that engine with that milk-shake in the crank-case !!!! You don't want to pump that cr@p up into the valve chamber !

First of all, was the cooling system filled with plain water, or with anti-freeze solution ?

( Anti-freeze has a very corrosive effect on babbit. Destroys it. )

Drain the crankcase. Leave the plug out and let things sit overnight.

Pull the valve cover, and if things look milky in there, blot it out with paper towels, then flush with kerosene, or similar solvent. Leave valve cover off for now. If you found the milky oil in the valve chamber, you might want to go ahead and pull the manifolds, so that you can see inside the valve pockets.

Fill radiator with clean water ( Valve cover still removed, oil-pan drain plug still out ).

Pull the spark plugs.

Let stand, and look for water drips in the valve chamber, and out the oil drain. With a strong flashlight, look down the spark-plug holes, toward the valves (look all around each hole) for water.

If no water detected, let stand several days, checking the above each day.

If no water detected, move on to pressurizing the cooling system to about 5 psi, and checking again for drips / presence of water.


If enough water got into the crankcase to register all the way up the dipstick, that is serious business. It could be something simple, such as a head gasket leak ( especially around stud # 8, since you mentioned disturbing that ), and hopefully that's all it is... but...

My '28 coupe, with un-rebuilt engine showing 80,000+ miles started seeping water into the cylinders / crankcase. I was driving the car daily, so most days I didn't notice anything terribly unusual, perhaps a little extra white vapor out the tail pipe when starting cold. But, if I let the car sit for a few days, the next time I would try to start it, the starter would stall on the first or second compression stroke, then gradually overcome the resistance, then when the engine started, it would missfire, and blow copious clouds of vapor out the tail pipe, and even spray water droplets out the tailpipe... eventually it would clear-out and the engine would run fine.

Long story shortened, turns out my engine has deck cracks from cylinders #2 and 3 towards the exhaust valve pockets, and upon long standing, water would seep through those cracks, and collect in the valve pockets ( thus the white vapor in the exhaust ), and the cylinders, occasionally getting past the rings.

I tried doping it up with block seal, and that seemed to hold while running clear water during the warm months, but when I switched to 50-50 antifreeze, the stop-leak would eventually fail.

All of which is to say, inspect thoroughly before you go cranking that engine over...

I hope it is something simple, and easily repaired.


Frank

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Everyone should THROW AWAY that blasted Ignition Cable Clamp! They've caused a lot of GRIEF!
Henry would agree, it was NOT one of his "BETTER IDEAS"!!
SA Bill W.

[Big hammer]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Everyone should THROW AWAY that blasted Ignition Cable Clamp! They've caused a lot of GRIEF!
Henry would agree, it was NOT one of his "BETTER IDEAS"!!
SA Bill W.

What cable clamp :-)

[zzlegend]

SO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,did no body read post 14??????????????????

[Al 29Tudor]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Everyone should THROW AWAY that blasted Ignition Cable Clamp! They've caused a lot of GRIEF!
Henry would agree, it was NOT one of his "BETTER IDEAS"!!
SA Bill W.

Agreed !

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

SO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,did no body read post 14??????????????????

Not closely enough, apparently.

Nor did I read the date on the ORIGINAL POST: 2015.

[C26Pinelake]

Problem solved, see post 14. I had missed it. See what happens when you don't know all the facts! Wayne

[Manager]

Originally Posted by Al 29Tudor

I had a bad head gasket about 3.5 years ago. So much water in the engine it was coming out the tailpipe.
Installed a new head gasket and milled the head and all is well.
Al

Sorry for digging up such an old post but was all I could find close to my problem. I have a coupe that has quickly started running rough. I put it back in the garage and later on noticed what turned out to be water running out the carb. Checked the dipstick and milky oil. Drained the oil and water in there. Pulled the plugs and water in n01 and2.wound over with plugs out, Put fresh oil in and started it for a very short time and it goes.Question before I get into taredown ,would a head gasket let that much water through? When I pull the head are cracks easy to see? Thanks.John.

[Synchro909]

A blown head gasket won't cause water in the oil. There is no way for the two to mix that way.
These motors are notorious for cracking the blocks between the valves (usually the exhaust valve) and the cylinder. When that crack starts heading down the bore, it isn't long before water finds its way into the oil and , if the crack is from an inlet valve, into the manifold which would give you the symptoms you describe. These cracks are usually in either #2 or #3 pot. It sounds like yours is in #2.
I suggest you remove the head and WITHOUT TOUCHING ANYTHING, look closely at where I have described. You are likely (but no guarantee) you will see the crack.
If that is the problem, the block is so badly cracked that you should start hunting for a new block to rebuild (after crack testing it)
Sorry to be he bearer of bad news - there is no way of putting lipstick on this pig.

[Manager]

O.K. thanks. Will have a look.

[Dick M]

Looks like you will be pulling the head. In addition to possible causes already mentioned, be sure to check your head for cracks.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

[QUOTE=Synchro909;2141996]A blown head gasket won't cause water in the oil. There is no way for the two to mix that way.

I disagree. Just worked on one . The water gets into the cylinder and runs down through the rings. If it sits to long, it will rust to the wall.

[Synchro909]

[QUOTE=Chuck Sea/Tac;2142487]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

A blown head gasket won't cause water in the oil. There is no way for the two to mix that way.

I disagree. Just worked on one . The water gets into the cylinder and runs down through the rings. If it sits to long, it will rust to the wall.

Yeh, that's right but we are talking about an engine that is in use. not one that has been sitting for a while.
I'm still thinking a cracked block.
I'm looking forward to hearing back from MANAGER when he inspects the block.