Roof Chicken Wire and Cotton Padding Questions

[ahoogakev]

Hello A Gang, I am wondering if anyone knows what gauge of thickness the chicken wire used for the roof was originally? I was looking at some today in my local store, and it was 22 gauge, it seems so skinny! Isn't
is supposed to be a heavy wire? While I am at it, I need to find out how thick the cotton padding should be that goes on top of the wire, I've never done a roof before so I have no idea if it should be 1 inch 2 inches or
what? Thanks a lot ! Kev

[Jon-Ohio]

Not sure about the gauge or padding thickness, but for my 1930 coupe, I used the standard hardware store chicken wire netting and cut a pad out of an old wore out used mattress pad that I had - it worked fine.

[Buddy P.]

I just finished re-doing my roof and left the origional chicken wire in place,just tightening it to the edge wood.It was the same gauge which can be bought in the hardware stores today.Look for corosion where it might have gotten wet(leaky roof,you know) and pull loose staples or replace all of them.
BR Bud.73

[Doug in NJ]

I used chicken wire from the hardware store and it was fine. For the padding, I used the material from Brattons. It sort of resembles cotton, but it is actually some synthetic material, that will not soak up water or become mildewy.

Doug

[ahoogakev]

Thanks a lot for the info guys, I am going to go searching locally and see if I can find some that is coated or galvanized so hopefully it lasts a long time, I am surprised how skinny the padding was,I am hearing only 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick! Thanks again,Kev

[Rainmaker Ron]

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Ford did not use chicken wire. If your car has chicken wire, it is a replacement top or the body was made by Briggs or Murray. Tops were replaced more frequently than you may imagine, even in our little burg we had a couple shops that done only tops.
Rainmaker Ron

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Rainmaker Ron

Ford did not use chicken wire. If your car has chicken wire, it is a replacement top or the body was made by Briggs or Murray. Tops were replaced more frequently than you may imagine, even in our little burg we had a couple shops that done only tops.
Rainmaker Ron

Ron,

Can you, if possible, please explain the following taken out of the FORD Body Parts List, November 15, 1929.

Ford's designation for "chicken wire" is "Netting (roof)".

The following are all ROOF designations for the following models in their use of "chicken wire" or "Netting (roof)":

Standard Coupe: A-47312-R Netting (roof);
Tudor: A-57293: Netting (roof);
De Luxe Delivery: A-57293: Netting (roof);
Town Car: A-143282: Netting (roof);
Std. Fordor Sedan and Town Sedan (Murray): A-158258: Netting (roof);
(Also as seen in the Service Bulletins, Page 372);
Std. Fordor Sedan and Town Sedan (Briggs): A-168322: Netting (roof);
Fordor Steel Back (2-window): A-63360: Netting (roof);
Fordor (2-window Briggs): A-168322: Netting (roof).

As you say, all Murrary and Briggs have the "Netting (roof)"...can you explain why FORD listed it on the other body styles also if he did not intend to use it?

There is no listing for "Netting (roof)" in the August 15, 1930 FORD Body Part's List that I can see.

By the way, 1929 Standard Coupe, Original Top,...Had "Netting (roof) (chicken wire)".

Thanks Ron.

Pluck

[Chris in WNC]

no chicken wire on our early 31 Coupe when the original roof came off for replacement in 2009......

[Rainmaker Ron]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Ron,

Can you, if possible, please explain the following taken out of the FORD Body Parts List, November 15, 1929.

Ford's designation for "chicken wire" is "Netting (roof)".

The following are all ROOF designations for the following models in their use of "chicken wire" or "Netting (roof)":

Standard Coupe: A-47312-R Netting (roof);
Tudor: A-57293: Netting (roof);
De Luxe Delivery: A-57293: Netting (roof);
Town Car: A-143282: Netting (roof);
Std. Fordor Sedan and Town Sedan (Murray): A-158258: Netting (roof);
(Also as seen in the Service Bulletins, Page 372);
Std. Fordor Sedan and Town Sedan (Briggs): A-168322: Netting (roof);
Fordor Steel Back (2-window): A-63360: Netting (roof);
Fordor (2-window Briggs): A-168322: Netting (roof).

As you say, all Murrary and Briggs have the "Netting (roof)"...can you explain why FORD listed it on the other body styles also if he did not intend to use it?

There is no listing for "Netting (roof)" in the August 15, 1930 FORD Body Part's List that I can see.

By the way, 1929 Standard Coupe, Original Top,...Had "Netting (roof) (chicken wire)".

Thanks Ron.

Pluck

Steve, I appreciate the work you are doing to provide real world answers to dispel some of the old wives tales. Obviously I cannot document my statement and I was fishing for the information you posted. We ran this around on one of the boards a few years ago but we lacked the "pluck" to get the correct info. I was pretty sure I was wrong and that at least some of the early Ford bodies had wire and I thank you again for taking the time to post the facts. Now we know!
Rainmaker Ron

[ahoogakev]

Really I was not wishing to start a debate as to whether or not there was wire, as everyone from Marco on down has already conceded there were Tudors with wire anyways; I was just hoping someone would know what Fords original gauge of thickness was.I have now heard it was 16 gauge and that seems much more reasonable than the 22 gauge modern that I found, and I think would do a far better job.
In googling online about it, I did find an interesting theory that someone said he believed it is the driving of these old cars with the windows open , allowing the wind to billow in from the UNDERSIDE of the roof, that created a sort of tug tug tugging on the roof from below, that eventually would pull the holes wider and contributed muchly to the roof then sagging and failing- that would seem believable to me, and so I would think it would be highly important to not only have sturdy wire, but to have it stapled down VERY securely.
I am also curious if the nails on the strip under the visor ( Tudor) have been found to have been sprayed the original body color, or were bare steel ( infering nailed after Ford sprayed the body general) but it is not likely many will have seen an original car prestine enough to show that! Thanks once again for all your thoughts, Kev

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Ron,

Can you, if possible, please explain the following taken out of the FORD Body Parts List, November 15, 1929.

Ford's designation for "chicken wire" is "Netting (roof)".

The following are all ROOF designations for the following models in their use of "chicken wire" or "Netting (roof)":

Standard Coupe: A-47312-R Netting (roof);


There is no listing for "Netting (roof)" in the August 15, 1930 FORD Body Part's List that I can see.

By the way, 1929 Standard Coupe, Original Top,...Had "Netting (roof) (chicken wire)".

Thanks Ron.

Pluck

First, the "R" suffix listed above indicates that at that particular time is was essentially a service item. It may or may not have ever been used in production such as other "service only" parts we know of that carried the "R" suffix from day one.

I have removed factory installed tops from two late '28 Tudors, one late '29 Tudor and one '30 Tudor (I don't have a record of the production time), and NONE of them had chicken wire. What they DID have was a base of unbleached cotton duck fabric. This is the same as used in Closed Cabs except for the fabic color. Likewise I've done several Coupes of all years and NEVER encountered chicken wire. I still have the original top, padding, and cotton duck base from Jim Boehmke's August '31 Standard Coupe (Richmond plant).

With that said, Tom Moniz has a '30 Tudor he's had forever (still unrestored) which clearly has chicken wire under the original top and pad. It's also worth noting that Kevin's Tudor (subject of this thread) is also quite a gem. Based on his original question it appears his Tudor DID NOT originally have chicken wire. Was this hit and miss depending on branch in 1930? I have no idea.

Originally Posted by ahoogakev

I was just hoping someone would know what Fords original gauge of thickness was.

The original chicken wire was identical to that available today at any decent hardware store in the USA. BELIEVE ME, it is more than sufficient for the life of the car as long as the neighbor kids aren't climbing all over it! The roofs with a base of cotton duck held up fine for 70+ years!

In googling online about it, I did find an interesting theory that someone said he believed it is the driving of these old cars with the windows open , allowing the wind to billow in from the UNDERSIDE of the roof, that created a sort of tug tug tugging on the roof from below, that eventually would pull the holes wider and contributed muchly to the roof then sagging and failing- that would seem believable to me, and so I would think it would be highly important to not only have sturdy wire, but to have it stapled down VERY securely.

I guess nobody ever caught the kids playing "fort" and climbing all over it!

I am also curious if the nails on the strip under the visor ( Tudor) have been found to have been sprayed the original body color, or were bare steel ( infering nailed after Ford sprayed the body general) but it is not likely many will have seen an original car prestine enough to show that! Thanks once again for all your thoughts, Kev

I've seen many and can guarantee the bodies were painted after.

[ahoogakev]

Thanks Marco; I can agree with all that except my car did have chicken wire originally, but to my very great bad luck the previous owner trashed it just before I bought the car! Had I known it was important at the time,I might have made him dig it out of his garbage and ship it with the car, ha ha! Happily his restoration started at the top and didn't get much further - oh well life would be too easy if everything was perfect,Thanks again,Kev.
PS , my 31 Deluxe is REALLY gutted, theres nothing left at all, no wood, nothing, so its no help at all.

[jrelliott]

When I replaced the top of my '28 Briggs body, did not do as Henry did. Instead of the chicken wire used 1/8" Baltic Birch Plywood cut to fit the opening where the chicken wire went. Put countersunk 1/2" #6 screws around the edges of the plywood and across the bows. Then coated the plywood with three coats of Spar varnish in case water ever got through the covering. Put the newer type padding material from Barron LeBonney between the plywood and top covering. The added benefit of this was able to put insulation underneath the top which makes the interior much cooler. No one can ever see this modification and it does not flop in the breezes.