Need info on Brake Drum Swaging Press

[ahoogakev]

Hello A Gang; I have a question about a 30 ton press that I have a chance to buy, I know nothing about them, but I believe I read that a press of this size is needed when riviting new brake drums onto the hubs? My brother told me that there are two kinds of presses, one is an electric driven one, that you just hit the switch , or step on a pedal, and wham! you get your tons of forces applied; the other type of press is the type of press I have a chance to buy, its a manual non-electric one, I guess its similar to an hydraulic jack, just bigger, and you pump a hand lever until you get the forces you need- now my question is, is this type acceptable for swaging the Model A drums onto the hubs, or do I need the type that is electric? It seems to me a slow but steady hand lever style should work, but I've never even seen one so really have no clue. Also my ISP has been very unstable this week so I may not be able to log back on and thank poeple for any responses right away, so thanks in advance for any advice given! Kev ( PS if anyones wondering, I did get the body back on my chassis this summer, I will post pics on my website one of these days when I find time).

[Mike V. Florida]

The non-electric one is fine!

[Kevin in NJ]

The 30 ton press is the min press to do the job. A good old 30 ton is not the same as the new presses. The old ones look under rated and the new ones are over rated.

You can see the press is claiming it is at 20 ton and that was a full press. The swege is from Don Turley and the frame I made loosely based on the plans he sent me.


The press is only one part. The tooling has to be hardened properly. The tool you get in the catalogs is just a toy. What Don Turley sells is the best way to go.
There is also a lot of pre-checks. All the hubs were checked for out of plane surfaces. I cut the stud swege first and then used a light hammer and supported the backside before I hit the stud. There was no distortion. I lightly filed all high spots off. The rear hubs were checked for bearing size and taper condition, I failed a bunch of hubs and barely came up with 2. The front hub needs to have the bearing seats checked. Here again out of 6 I only had 2 I considered usable. When the bearing races fall into the seat that is a bit too loose for me.

I also checked the finished work. You can see the front hub check here. This is where I found uneven powder coat build up caused .012" of drum warpage. I was only about to measure about .001 or .002 out of round when the wheel paint build up was removed.

[Glenn C.]

By the time you invest in a large enough press for swedging and the other tools needed for the job, you are further ahead to purchase new cast iron drums from the suppliers that have the hubs already installed, with new studs and bearings.

Even after you install new hubs in either new cast iron drums or your old used steel drums......the drums have to be trued by machining on a engine lathe. Paralism of hub bearing bore to drum brake surface is critical for dependable brakes.

From recent experience, I think I would order bonded brake shoes with the cast drums that have been arced for correct fit.

Much cheaper in the long run, and easier on the head, better brakes.

Have them shipped to "At The Border Storage" in Sweetgrass, go pick them up yourself, and beat the discusting inflated UPS charges. At the same time you might be able to do a favor for one of your fellow club members, by picking up some parts for him. Cost is cheaper.

[Craig Lewis]

The big old "manual pump" press I used to swedge my drums worked very well except I don't recall the tonnage.
The jack housing was about 8" diameter if that helps?
*Here's a couple things I learned...

1) It's important to place a solid support inside the drum for the studs to rest upon.
My support was a pair of (scrap) Model A ring gears, stacked so the teeth interlock. The inside of one gear had to be slightly enlarged for the front hub to clear. The ring gears are placed upon cross members of the press bed.

2) Placing a drop of oil on the swedging shoulder first, really helps in pulling off the tool.
Once everything is lined up the actual swedging is about 1/4" of travel & feels like stepping on a hard boiled egg.

3) My swedge tool came from Snyder's about 7-8 yrs ago?...in the familiar Ford logo plastic package.
It fit the stud nice & tight...a good thing...but drawing a file across the tip suggested it WASN'T hardened. We heated the tip with an oxy/acetylene torch and quenched it in oil which made it considerably harder.
I wasn't sure at the time, but I think hardening was the right choice.
This is the same tool (pictured below) and it's done 6 drums = 30 studs.
Note the flat end is mushroomed, yet the hardened tip is standing up fine.

[ahoogakev]

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Thanks you all for all the great info and pics, I really appreciate it! As usual you have given me lots to think on, I am sure I will have more questions when I get to this task, for now I think I will proceed with buying the press, and go from there, Thanks again! Kev

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by Don Turley

...The electric press you describe is a "punch press", intended to punch out parts from flat sheet metal. It would not be suitable for swaging.

Don Turley
www.donturley.com

Ahoogakev's brother does seem to be describing a punch press, but just for completeness let me note that it could be a poor description of an electrically driven hydraulic press. All I do is pull a lever on my press, and I "...get [my] tons of forces applied."

But there's no "wham!" involved.

Joe

[Flathead]

That press is real handy for other stuff too, not just swaging drums.

[ahoogakev]

Thanks Don and Joe; ha I think you are right Joe; it was a poor description; mainly because I dont know what I am talking about, and my four second memory prevents me from repeating info others tell me correctly lots of times - I suspect my brother told it right to me, but it lost something in my translation! I actually used the word " wham" trying to convey the image of speed; again I might be wrong having never seen any press, but it seemed to me the electric one would do all its pressing in a very short period of time, ( maybe half a second?) so in my imagination , watching something being pressed would be kind of a "wham its done!" thing - but the hand levered press, seemed to me would be very slow and steady ( maybe too slow?) So thats why I asked if it would even be suitable for this task.Anyways I seem to have found my answer, ( yes it will be fine) the tonage should just do; so I am off and running! If Don does sell the accessories required I may well go to him for them,if he has any to spare but I am probably months away from starting this job, I just have a chance to get the press now, Thanks ,Kev.
PS I should add ,I think my brother did say theres an element of danger involved with presses, too; if you put something in crooked or sloped, the press can push down and squeeze it out sideways and the object goes flying across the room like a missile; maybe someone wants to comment, does that sound right or am I mis-remembering again? Thanks,Kev

[1931 flamingo]

Sounds right to me and I didn't here him say it. SAFETY GLASSES A PRIORITY when working around any type of machinery.
Paul in CT

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by ahoogakev

...PS I should add ,I think my brother did say theres an element of danger involved with presses, too; if you put something in crooked or sloped, the press can push down and squeeze it out sideways and the object goes flying across the room like a missile; maybe someone wants to comment, does that sound right or am I mis-remembering again? Thanks,Kev

Yes, indeed, there is considerable potential for more excitement than you want. Setup should be considered carefully. Good support is required, and the force must be applied straight down through the workpiece.

Electrical or air-over hydraulic presses tend to be faster than hand-operated ones, partly because the pumping is continuous, but it is not an "all-at-once" sort of thing.

Joe