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Old 02-14-2021, 08:14 PM   #21
Ol' Ron
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

I love it. Why not drill each manafold port and weld in a bung for an injector. Some of these systems fire 4 injectors at a time, so you have to have them aligned with a open falve.AK 87/9 GM system
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:42 PM   #22
Ken Henry
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

Thanks Ron! That would be a good way to go, but I’m not set up to weld aluminum bungs in. Would need to find a co-conspirator!! My Megaquirt 2 had two injector circuits that could run 4 injectors each. With eight squirts per cycle (2 revolutions), the pulse width at idle is very low ~1.5 ms but seems to work ok. Ken
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

Ken, simply awesome!

Thank you for all the pics and descriptions...just got in the house and need to digest it all....lots of great info!!

I'll comment more in the morning, my son is coming for dinner....need to get the toast made.

Thanks
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

Youse guys are starting to lose me : (ms? I thought that was a women's lib term).
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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Youse guys are starting to lose me : (ms? I thought that was a women's lib term).

Keep your hands inside the car at all times.


PS I picked up another 4 bbl intake today, a polished Fenton made for the 49-53 with Holley adapter plate...so now I don't feel bad about drilling out my Offy if I decide to go multi-port. One can never have too many induction set-ups...
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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Just so you know, I have heard from several reliable sources that Fenton made the best 4 BBL flathead intake. Luckily, I paid "too much" for one on eBay about 8 years ago; in retrospect, it's starting to look like a bargain.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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Just so you know, I have heard from several reliable sources that Fenton made the best 4 BBL flathead intake. Luckily, I paid "too much" for one on eBay about 8 years ago; in retrospect, it's starting to look like a bargain.
Too funny, it was your thread or comment that I found, 8 years ago, that I trusted in my search for what it was when I found it before I made my decision....holy cow, somebody call the sentence police...

Thanks Tubman.

Still moving forward with FI though...it's just too much fun not to do...


Cheers
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

Anybody ever look at this?
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...gc_small_bore/
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Old 02-15-2021, 12:53 AM   #29
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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Still moving forward with FI though...it's just too much fun not to do...

Cheers

And here is the answer for the naysayers and doubters! ....."just too much fun not to do...." It's a personal challenge with great satisfaction when it all works, like when the purist finds a Genuine New Old Stock gizmo for his dash after years of searching!

Plus, you keep the "flavor" of the flathead while enjoying the benefits of EFI, such as no more washing down the cylinders from over-choking or too large jets. Too many guys run a too rich idle mixture because "it sounds better" or they try to tune with a vacuum gauge. This all results in oil dilution and faster engine wear needlessly. I've had the heads off many late model fuel injected engines with well over 200,000 miles, and the crosshatch in the cylinders still is visible at the top of the bore.

Then you have the guys who like to cruise into the drive-in with the choke pulled out because they think it sounds like a full race cam!
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:15 AM   #30
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

40 Deluxe, You are a wise man good kind sir. Stated perfectly. Thank you.
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Old 02-15-2021, 07:06 AM   #31
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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Just to add based on the link to BinderPlant (IH Truck forum) above. I have a 79 IH Traveler with a 345 2 bbl. in many ways very similar to the flathead. Low power, low top end, poor economy, heavy, etc. Many folks there echo the same issues as raised here. Aside from ditching the boat anchor of a motor, some have opted for a FI system made for the engine. I could see it being adapted, or better yet, perhaps he could make a kit for flatheads if there was enough interest (no affiliation). Not cheap ($1.5K), but IIRC most that have purchased it are very happy with it. As I know little about it, I've provided some links for those interested.

http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/

https://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/HFI-TBI-SYS.html

http://scoutpluss.com/fuel-injection/
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Old 02-15-2021, 07:28 AM   #32
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

What about those 97 lookalikes that run fuel injectors. Was it Mooneyes? Jim from Royal Kustoms had some here in the UK. I know the setup didn't go without problems though. I seem to remember someone from mooneyes coming over to get it sorted out.

Edit: I just did some googling and had forgot what a shitstorm it was.

Last edited by Mart; 02-15-2021 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:16 AM   #33
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

I was surprised to find that I could not lean out the idle mixture beyond 13:1, similar to what Ron mentions in the timing thread, without things getting rough; maybe a leaner AFR would be possible with port injectors? On the other hand this might result from the combustion chamber shape. A nice thing about EFI, for a modified engine, is that you can easily change AFR or timing with a laptop and see the effect
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:38 AM   #34
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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...I am tired of trying to find 60 year old carbs to fit manifolds they weren't designed for, then make them work, fix worn throttle shafts etc.
What the heck carburetors are you trying to put on your flathead intake?

The 97, 94, 81 style carburetors that are common and era-appropriate are bolt-on mates for the intakes that would be used on these engines. You can also buy them (well, 97s, anyway) new with zero of the issues you might find with an old carburetor that's in need of a rebuild.

Seems like those aren't really logical reasons for wanting to go to EFI.

I can understand reasons such as: better throttle response and driveability, instant start-up, improved spark and fuel control, variable tuning, etc, though.
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:52 AM   #35
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

After owning Linder Fuel Injection for 24 years and shipping thousands of injectors , we installed quite a few systems :

Mega squirt is entirely too much work ?? Most never run ..

I would suggest using a stock ecm ( thousands of parameters are already installed )
Use the edelbrock four barrel manifold with a adapter for the TBI throttle body injection , buy a used throttle body as close as matching your cubic inch .....MAYBE A 4.3 CI V 6
Use a adjustable fuel pressure regulator to trim the system if needed , also buy a adjustable map sensor .....
I would buy a new tbi chevy distributor to use the auto timing features and just machine for the flathead ...
Electric frame mounted fuel pump with return line .
Buy a harness from Larrys Electric in Ruma illinois and use a ecm from him if he has one . I have used Larry for quite a few conversions etc .
Trust the factory ( who have made millions of units when possible...
Keep it simple and you will love it .
I installed one of these on my hot rod model a truck , painted the unit eastwood gold to look like a carb and hid the dual fuel lines with a large piece of shrink tube , drove it for years and every show we were in everyone just thought it was a carb under that aircleaner

KEEP IT SIMPLE AND YOU WILL LOVE IT !!!!!!
glad to help
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:53 AM   #36
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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This would be a great option I think. Has some self tuning features built in and could used a modified Mercury manifold, correct? It would be really hard to put a junkyard system together for less money. But what would you do with all the time (and aggravation!) you save?? Ken
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:55 AM   #37
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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What the heck carburetors are you trying to put on your flathead intake?
I was trying to get more performance by using a 4 bbl manifold, but both manifolds I have were made for the 4 bbl carbs from the 50's, the small base Carter WCFB and Rochester 4G, again small base. These days they are rare, and to date I have only found a couple but they were the larger bore, higher CFM, not ideal. I could buy the adapter plate but again, a new Holley 390 is $1100 here, and used ones aren't around.

Ken, your lean out issue, is it possible the injectors were too high flow rate? I have read if the injectors are too small they max out on duty cycle and can't provide enough fuel, maybe the same happens on the other end...Just a thought.

Cheers
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:57 AM   #38
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

You can also buy the 94s new as well, both as a primary and as a secondary unit for a progressive setup. They are both on my avatar using a “Y” adapter on a stock intake. However, the primary jets provided are waay too rich and need to be swapped out for leaner units where I live.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:10 AM   #39
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

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I would suggest using a stock ecm ( thousands of parameters are already installed ) I would buy a new tbi chevy distributor to use the auto timing features and just machine for the flathead ...
Thanks Jim. What I have read is the late 80's and into the 90's GM ECM is desirable. I have a 1995 GM1500 with a 350 in it, would that make a good donor for distributor and ECM? Is it the same vintage you were thinking of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION View Post
Use the edelbrock four barrel manifold with a adapter for the TBI throttle body injection , buy a used throttle body as close as matching your cubic inch .....MAYBE A 4.3 CI V 6
I have the Offy and Fenton 4 bbl manifolds, I'm sure one of them would work...and yes, I am looking for either a 2.8L or 4.3L TBI body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION View Post
buy a adjustable map sensor .....
Would this suggest you are using a "speed density" system,or does the MAF system use MAP sensor as well?

Thanks for the guidance Jim.

Cheers
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:24 AM   #40
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Default Re: Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

Just curious but modern port injection seems to spray at back of the intake valve and seems like it would be hard to do in a flathead. I know it's not like a squirt gun but comes out of injector as a fog, seems that would be ok with sequential injection but a batch fire would it tend to run down the valve guides. Just asking because I don't know. That Holley system is interesting. All of the electronic systems are going to involve 12V, some fuel system work and static/spike suppression.
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