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Old 09-16-2021, 10:38 AM   #1
Fred A
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Default '40 Wider Wheels?

I have 4.5" wheels from my '40 station wagon. Some seek '40 wheels and expect to find the squared profile rims. My 4.5"s are slopers and innies around the lugs.Could they still be '40? Original looking green paint is not pinstriped. Thanks: Fred A

PS: Found a post war number for the 4.5" wheels. 59C-1015

Last edited by Fred A; 11-12-2021 at 11:55 AM. Reason: post script
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Old 09-16-2021, 10:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

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I have 4.5" wheels from my '40 station wagon. Some seek '40 wheels and expect to find the squared profile rims. My 4.5"s are slopers and innies around the lugs.Could they still be '40? Original looking green paint is not pinstriped. Thanks: Fred A
Sloped is later Fred, 1942+
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Old 09-16-2021, 01:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Thanks Kube, guess I'll have to dig into the Service Bulletins to get more of the picture. Would have been cool on my coupe, did I say cool? It's almost a set with these on the front for 650-16s tires and the '41 Merc 16X5" wheels on the rear with whatever tires, looking so much alike. One disappointing outcome is to plan too far ahead and have the "ideal" tires rub on the wells. I should compare the offsets. Nice to have so much Ford information available, but often overlook esthetic differences like innie and sloper. Any info on when Ford wheels went from innie to outie? Part of the same quest, you see.
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Old 09-16-2021, 01:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Ford pickup's were innie's to 66, cars to 49

Last edited by cas3; 09-16-2021 at 02:12 PM. Reason: opps!
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Old 09-16-2021, 02:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

The part about any innies as late as '66 put a wrinkle in my brow. This place is looking like a wheel factory and lucky if I can recall the source. Most wheels in "stock" are used as rollers which is an unreliable nemonic device. I'm limiting my self to consider 16" wheels on a 5.5" lug center. Sources can be a fooler to me. Profoundly the 16,5" wheels are great for parking in the mud. Seems that 15" wheels swept the world of Fords beginning with the '42 Merc. By '57 were're rolling on 14's. What a ride! Took a look at my set of outie 16X5"wide, 5 on 5.5 pickup wheels finding them all FoMoCo which is barely worth knowing. And, No, I've not been drinking..Yet. Thanks for the response: Fred A
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Old 09-16-2021, 04:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

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Here is a picture of a '40-'41 Ford car wheel and a 1946 Ford car wheel.
Back in the late 50's as dirt track racers, we would avoid running the '40-'41
16" wheels, as they are flat around the lug holes and the metal
would crack right there
.
You can see by the picture of the 1946 Ford car wheel. that the metal
is volcanoed out right around each lug hole and were much stronger
in that area
.

click on pictures to Enlarge
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1940 1941 Ford wheel lug holes.jpg (58.4 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg 1946 Ford wheel lug hole.jpg (67.6 KB, 84 views)
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Old 09-16-2021, 05:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

.

Hey Fred ....Kube, Cas and Lanny have all given you some top-notch information. And I see that you mentioned that you have a pair of '41 Merc, 16" X 5"-wide wheels ....THE Holy Grail of old Ford wheels. I guess I'm having a hard time figuring what your question really is. I'm assuming that you want to stay with 16" Ford wheels, able to be fit with the early caps (inboard nubbies). I'm wondering if you're looking for a wheel WIDER than the 5" '41s? Do you think that any of the widths we've discussed here is too narrow for a tire like a 7.50 X 16, or a 7.50 R16?

If so, there is no reason that you can't run 7.50s on a '42-'48 4-1/2" wide automobile wheel like we have. The pictures below show an Excelsior Stall Sport Radial (7.50 R16) mounted on said 4-1/2" X 16" Ford wheel, and on a '36 3-window coupe. They run great, and tubeless to boot. Excelsior recommends a 4"-6" wide wheel for that tire. We have Excelsior 5.50 R16s on '40-'41 Ford 4"-wide wheels on front. Any of this help, or am I just confusing matters? DD











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Old 09-16-2021, 06:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

That's a fine lookin coupe there !
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Old 09-16-2021, 07:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

I started with a Kube kind of question about 650s on a 4.5" wheel with a chance that Ford produced it as early as '40 for use by station wagons and commercials. I lost focus on the rear wheel knowing well that they were '41merc at 5" width of which I hoard seven of them and they also are innies. They match well from the outside. In the FoMoCo era, the 16" seems to be an option to the 15s", with 5.5"pattern, standard on commercials, both being outies and 5" wide. The F1 and F100 guys bring a few of these to the local swaps. The descriptions can get pretty involved with factory specs ranging among 16"s from 3.5" to 5" with the same lug pattern and descriptions vary. There is also the element of striping on later passenger wheels. Following? Big and littles don't suit my car or me. Perhaps using the Merc wheels would be a wasteful mismatch. As you may see the very subject is potentially confusing. Thanks for the great comments: Fred A
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Old 09-16-2021, 11:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Fred, I am confused now, if you are not trying for the " big & little" thing, then why are you not happy with the wheels you have? as we have seen, 40, square drop center, 4", 42 and up, sloped drop center, 4 1/2", pickup wheels are usually 5", and noticeably heavier when you lift one. A larger tire than the stock 600 will work on any of the choices
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Old 09-17-2021, 02:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

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That's a fine lookin coupe there !

That is Heard's (Heard Saxon) little coupe.....He will appreciate that! It looks a bit better here with hood.





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Old 09-19-2021, 12:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

cas3: Sounds simple if you say it quickly. Old narrow Ford/Merc wheels/tires look fine in the 75+ year old Service Bulletins but often there are surprises looking in the current catalogues and find some wheel width numbers based on wider wheel expectations. I hope to not be limited to bias tires. I've had two expensive tire failures. I will reserve selection after finding some of the vintage tires offered are already old. Big/little looks like a stink beatle to me. Big if I need the diameter. Little might be underrated on max weight alone. I know this thread is played out but the confusion needed a reply. Good Luck: Fred A
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:22 AM   #13
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Big/little aside. I ordered "tall" tires for my f150. Didn't need to change the rim width. Not cheap though.


Well if you go the otherway they will cost you also too...
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

I run 7.00 and 6 fronts on my stock rims with bia and tubes. Woe is me.
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Old 11-12-2021, 11:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Here I am digging back 20 pages of this site to comment on Tinker's comment on running 700-16s on his 4" wide wheels. Looking at tire specifications in the Service Bulletins and backing up from optional tire sizes to wheels, I see that before the war a recommended wheel was a 4", 48-1015 ('35 spoke). 1941 the Merc and Zephyr 16"s jumped to 5" wide 16"s. After the war the recommended changed for the 6.5-16 to the 4.5", 59C-1015. Apparently standard for commercials which often included station wagons. Probably an option on passenger cars. Woe is me? Ford didn't think so. Good Luck: Fred A

Last edited by Fred A; 11-12-2021 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 11-12-2021, 12:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

I really like that 36 3 window, one of my favorite Ford models.
Thanks, Gramps
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Old 11-12-2021, 12:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred A View Post
Here I am digging back 20 pages of this site to comment on Tinker's comment on running 700-16s on his 4" wide wheels. Looking at tire specifications in the Service Bulletins and backing up from optional tire sizes to wheels, I see that before the war a recommended wheel was a 4", 48-1015 ('35 spoke). 1941 the Merc and Zephyr 16"s jumped to 5" wide 16"s. After the war the recommended changed for the 6.5-16 to the 4.5", 59C-1015. Apparently standard for commercials which often included station wagons. Probably an option on passenger cars. Woe is me? Ford didn't think so. Good Luck: Fred A

Fred A .....This has been a pretty dam good thread for anyone trying to figure-out what's really going-on with old Ford 16" wheels. But I'm still trying to figure-out what it is that you're trying to figure-out! I would have thought that anyone that owns SEVEN 16" X 5" old Ford wheels with innie nubs should be set for life!! DD
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Old 11-12-2021, 06:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

On the starting the thread I had not connected the dots on wheel width. I continued to read the Ford sources, including the Service Bulletins to 1947. There are extensive lists with related tire linkages vs. wheel part numbers. Too bad Ford did not include popular aftermarket wheels like the Kelsey Hays bent spoke and adjustables. Kelsey bent spoke came in 4.5" and as commonly as they survive, sales must have been quite good. At one time I went crazy hoarding them. The "LB High Performance" swap meet on Nov 7 yielded two more of the Merc/Zephyr 16"s. offered as 6.5" Fords. I knew no better until the tires came off and I could read the size that usually is on the rim near the stem hole. The Zephyr/Merc link was just found in the Service Bulletin. I hope they are the same wheel in spite of the different part numbers 19/16H. Is that not a hoarder question? I May solve the picture posting on this site soon. Thanks: Fred A
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Old 11-12-2021, 11:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

Quote:
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I May solve the picture posting on this site soon. Thanks: Fred A

Fred .....If ya want to post a pic or three, send 'em to my e-mail (BELOW) and I'll post 'em for ya.....especially those 16 X 5s! DD


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Old 11-20-2021, 02:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: '40 Wider Wheels?

I should drag a few of the Merc/Zephyr wheels out for a family portrait. I go for the bragging opportunity. Some are powder painted and may resist posing with the riff-raff. I see that the red primer wheels are 6". Fred A

Last edited by Fred A; 11-20-2021 at 03:17 PM.
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