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Old 11-16-2015, 03:21 AM   #1
Pete from OZ
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Default 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Hi Fellas,
I need advice on the Front Oil Seal . When I rebuild the 8BA engine I used the Modern front seal and not the Rope Seal. On first start up, I noticed a oil leak running down the centre of the oil pan from the front.
After reading a lot of posts , I thought maybe I pinched the seal. Sure enough that is what I did.
I have just this last weekend fitted a new speedi sleeve and new modern seal from Flatattack racing.
I made sure I did not pinch it by using insulation tape from side to side before install. This made it very easy to fit. I was very confident.
I ran the engine to operating temperature and shut down, and saw no leaks.
About 10 minutes later I checked again, and sure enough there was a leak again running down the centre of the pan from the front seal area.
What do you reckon I have done as I am certain that I have not pinched the seal.
Is this a common leak in this area. I also have not over filled the oil level.
Thanks.
Pete from OZ
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:21 AM   #2
nohelp
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

a frend of mine installed one of the new seals backwards and his leaked,just saying i is possable. NOHELP
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

The first step is to determine whether the leak is around the outside of the seal body or at the shaft. Not easy to do but will help establish the correction procedure.
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Did you apply sealant to the outer edge of the new seal?
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Old 11-16-2015, 09:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

I use a couple of thin feeler gauges to start the seal on the shaft. Works well.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete from OZ View Post
Hi Fellas,
I need advice on the Front Oil Seal . When I rebuild the 8BA engine I used the Modern front seal and not the Rope Seal. On first start up, I noticed a oil leak running down the centre of the oil pan from the front.
After reading a lot of posts , I thought maybe I pinched the seal. Sure enough that is what I did.
I have just this last weekend fitted a new speedi sleeve and new modern seal from Flatattack racing.
I made sure I did not pinch it by using insulation tape from side to side before install. This made it very easy to fit. I was very confident.
I ran the engine to operating temperature and shut down, and saw no leaks.
About 10 minutes later I checked again, and sure enough there was a leak again running down the centre of the pan from the front seal area.
What do you reckon I have done as I am certain that I have not pinched the seal.
Is this a common leak in this area. I also have not over filled the oil level.
Thanks.
Pete from OZ
Hi Pete, assuming this is your leak, we move a bunch of those seals AND the "corresponding" sleeves, not a single "leaker" yet.

You need to really pay close attention when installing the seal, it is very easy to install them "backwards" (mentioned above), this will push oil out not keep it in and have the correct sleeve with the seal.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Those 1 pc neoprene seals don't like or work well with the "spiraled" OEM sleeves. It takes a "blank" sleeve specific to that seal. The seal/sleeve below here on the left should be used together.
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File Type: jpg Flathead Timing Cover Seals-Sleeves.JPG (67.0 KB, 122 views)
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

This is not the first time I have heard about people having problems with these one piece seals. Are they that much better than a conventional rope seal to warrant the trouble? I ordered one from Speedway, and it looks awful narrow and will need a bunch of sealer to fill the cavities in the pan and timing cover. Also, it didn't come with it's own sleeve. My machinist wants to use the original rope seal.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:21 PM   #8
Pete from OZ
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Thanks all for the replys
I was very carefull to put the seal on the right way. Also added sealant around the outer.
GOSFAST has given me an idea that the "spiralled " OEM sleeve may be where the problem is.
I did use what we call a Speedie Sleeve from Mike Davidson pictured below. This goes over the spiralled sleeve.
Could the leak be coming through the spirals under the sleeve.
Thanks.
Pete from OZ

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Old 11-16-2015, 02:30 PM   #9
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Sure looks like the oil could come thru the spiral. Perhaps a coating of something at installation to seal the spiral. The no spiral replacement sleeve looks like the way to go.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:36 PM   #10
Pete from OZ
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Thanks 51 MERC-CT. Would you know where the Non Spiral Sleeve is available.
Or it looks like I have to once again take the Oil Pan off and just install the Rope Seal. Bugger.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Hi Pete, I would just add here, that seal in the photo looks correct, wouldn't use that other piece however. The "direction" is VERY important, this part of installing it could easily be missed.

The seals are very hard to "screw-up" on the install, they fit rather snug when in place. Not sure about the one mentioned above being "loose"??

(Add) I AM assuming the oil-slinger is inside there??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. See the photo here with it in place, nice fit really! Putting some sealer on the outer edge of the seal (in the grooves) won't hurt anything. I'm not sure that seal shown here is in the cover correctly, it's only for the photo. If you need further help in the correct direction just come back here! This I can't confirm today!
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File Type: jpg Flathead Timing Cover-Seal.JPG (60.1 KB, 132 views)

Last edited by GOSFAST; 11-16-2015 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Correct
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:48 PM   #12
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete from OZ View Post
Thanks 51 MERC-CT. Would you know where the Non Spiral Sleeve is available.
Or it looks like I have to once again take the Oil Pan off and just install the Rope Seal. Bugger.
Pete from OZ
Sorry don't know where but I'm sure someone on here does.
As a side note about the rope seal. My car has well over 100K miles on it with the original rope seal.
At one point it did seep a little oil out of the seal until I installed a PCV system on it. After the installation I noticed that the oil seepage had virtually stopped. I attribute this to the negative crankcase pressure supplied by the PCV system.
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:03 PM   #13
Pete from OZ
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Thanks GOSFAST
The Seal appears to be the same as you have pictured, Oil Slinger in place, but I am thinking that the oil is coming under the Speedi sleeve on the grooves of the OEM Sleeve.
JWL, Could you please explain to me about leaking from the shaft. It is very hard to see up under the car.
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Remove the crank pulley. Clean and dry the areas of attention. Start the engine. Operate it until it begins getting hot. Stop engine. Carefully examine for area of leakage.

In at least one case, I am aware of, the component fit of the pan and front cover had the seal moved significantly off center and required modification of the pan. That is not to say your problem is there.

The old rope is not as bad as some believe.
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:02 PM   #15
Pete from OZ
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Thanks JWL,
If I leave as is will the oil leak become worse or just be a drip . It seems to only start leaking after the engine has been stopped for 10 minutes.
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

You could always try it for a while and see how it goes. Your engine does have good ventilation doesn't it? Pressure build up in the engine could help push the oil out the spiral grooves.
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Before you install the seal ,remove the inner seal that runs against the wear sleeve the seal is a two piece and the center is removable, make shure the inner radius is clean of oil and outer seal portion is clear of oil and the removable center section seal outside radius is clean as well, put a small bead of silicone sealer to the inner surface of the outer part that holds the seal to the engine ,the oil may be coming through the seams of the inner portion and the outer portions, then install with a modest amount of sealer to the pan and timing cover mating surfaces making shure the seal is not cocked in the pan area, some times people take pliers and squeeze the seal area of the pan to tighten up the rope seal to enhance the protrusion of the old rope seals. look on you tube at Mr. Balough's demonstration , it will explain with visual what I am trying to explain , I found out the hard way after removing the pan a few times I seen where the seal can be separated and mine was leaking between the inner Radius of the seal so I tried to push the seal apart and sure enough it does easily separate and the fluorescent dye I used was visible. check out you tube flathead ford front seal sleeve install .
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

Interesting video: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...4759338D6EB4D1
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

With respect to John above, I believe this also, there is absolutely no issues with the rope seals. Before the neoprene's were available that's all we had to use.

On the Flathead's this is one area we actually listen to the customer. We use whichever they ask for, if it's our choice though we use the 1 pc.

(Add) Pete, Joblot still has some of these seals and sleeves in stock, picked up a few from Ralph this morning! I know you're not local, but they have them still. They will be gone soon?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Just on a side note here, we've used the 2-pc neoprene rear main seals on some Pontiacs in the past. Not too many, maybe 2 or so, these were on customer-dictated builds. We tried to talk them out of it but went forward. They both ended up leaking. From that day forward I don't give the customer's any choices anymore, we use ONLY the rope seals on Pontiacs, Buicks and Oldsmobiles. They also ALL get pinned through the main cap on installation!
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: 8BA Front Seal Oil Leak

JSeery Thank you. A very informative video !
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