The Ford Barn

throwback · 08-26-2011, 01:57 PM

What is the best method for pulling valves out of a 1937 Ford Flathead block without damaging the valve or bending the valve stem?

Thanks

don's 37 · 08-26-2011, 05:35 PM

Take a look in the Mac's early V8 catalog. They have all the tools available to do the job.

Jack E/NJ · 08-26-2011, 05:39 PM

I'm assuming that the guides are so stuck that they can't be budged with a proper prybar to get the horseshoe clips out of their block recesses. The following may not be the best method, but it worked for an early 38 21-studder with stuck guides. Only one homemade drift tool and a half dozen or so 1/8" thick metal shims are required.

First, with the valve closed on the heel of the cam, pry the spring up far enough to be able to wiggle the u-shaped valve retainer out from around the mushroom stem and relieve the spring pressure. Maybe a little tricky but they're usually loose enough to easily wiggle out from the inside of the valve spring.

Then pull the valve up as high as it'll go. Liberally bathe the guide area with a 50-50 mixture of ATF/MEK or ATF/acetone. Let the mixture stew overnight.

While you're waiting for the ATF/MEK magic to happen, fashion a homemade 4-6" long drift from stout 1/4"steel, brass or aluminum about ~1/2" wide. Pull the valve up and insert drift to the top of the guide. (You may have to file a small depression in the drift to clear the valve head more and give you better access to the top of the guide).

After sitting overnight, pour more ATF/MEK into the valve chamber guide area. Then start sharply rapping, not pounding, the drift with a small hammer all around the guide while keeping the guide area well lubed the the ATF mixture. Some of the guides, usually the intakes first, will start to move down enough to pull the horseshoe clips free from their block recesses. Let the stubborn ones set another day or so, again well lubed with the ATF mixture, before rapping again. Patience is key. They will eventually all move down enough to get the clips out.

Finally, put an 1/8" shim between the lifter and the mushroom stem. Then crank the engine to use the cam lobe to push the lifter against the shim, valve stem and spring. The well-lubed guide will start to rise up in its barrel. Move the cam back on its heel. Insert another 1/8" shim and repeat pushing with the cam lobe to raise the guide even higher. Keep inserting shims and cam lobe pushes until the spring, guide and valve come flying out of the barrel. It's best to cover the valve assembly and barrel with a cloth or can during this process to catch all the flying parts. 8^) Good luck.

Jack E/NJ

Russ/40 · 08-26-2011, 07:03 PM

And I thought I'd heard it all. That's a pretty clever technique, never heard that one. Seems to me though that if the guide is so tight as to require using the cam lobe to raise it, that the valve will split the guides and break off the bottom of the guide.
I have used that technique to get the valve high enough to get a drift under the valve. I used the lever bar to force the valve up and the taper at the mushroom end will break away the lower part of the guide, enabling you to raise the valve even further. Of course, the result is the split guides are trash, not that you should ever attempt to reuse them.

Jack E/NJ · 08-26-2011, 07:24 PM

Russ/40>>>the valve will split the guides and break off the bottom of the guide.
>>>

The spring fully compresses against the guide before the mushroom reaches the bottom of the guide. If you don't remove the mushroom valve retainer first, your guide is toast.

Jack E/NJ

Russ/40 · 08-26-2011, 10:49 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Russ/40>>>the valve will split the guides and break off the bottom of the guide.
>>>

The spring fully compresses against the guide before the mushroom reaches the bottom of the guide. If you don't remove the mushroom valve retainer first, your guide is toast.

Jack E/NJ

I undo the valve keeper first and wrestle the spring out. The valve is free to split the guide.

Jack E/NJ · 08-27-2011, 11:24 AM

Russ/40>>>I undo the valve keeper first and wrestle the spring out. The valve is free to split the guide. >>>

Leave the spring in to protect the guide from the mushroom.

Jack E/NJ

Russ/40 · 08-27-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Russ/40>>>I undo the valve keeper first and wrestle the spring out. The valve is free to split the guide. >>>

Leave the spring in to protect the guide from the mushroom.

Jack E/NJ

Jack, you completely missed my point. I deliberately break the guides.

Jack E/NJ · 08-27-2011, 11:55 AM

Ooooo, how cruel! 8^)

Jack E/NJ

pooch · 05-02-2016, 05:41 PM

Finally, put an 1/8" shim between the lifter and the mushroom stem. Then crank the engine to use the cam lobe to push the lifter against the shim, valve stem and spring. The well-lubed guide will start to rise up in its barrel. Move the cam back on its heel. Insert another 1/8" shim and repeat pushing with the cam lobe to raise the guide even higher. Keep inserting shims and cam lobe pushes until the spring, guide and valve come flying out of the barrel. It's best to cover the valve assembly and barrel with a cloth or can during this process to catch all the flying parts. 8^) Good luck.

I did find both of the sites mentioned but could not understand either of them.

This one says to put a 1/8th shim under, this is with the guide down a touch and horse shoe clip out, valve lower retainer out , but spring still in.

I can understand the principle of compressing the spring fully and pushing the whole assembly out at top..

But, as I see it,you have prise the spring up a bit to insert the shim, then turn the engine and use the cam to push the spring up .. ONLY 1/8th inch and then insert another shim ....?

Don't get it, how do you insert another shim, when cam is turned back the spring will just compress back on the first shim ....?

-----------------------------------------------

Another tool (shown below - see picture C) basically forces the valve guide up from below by a screw action. Its top cup surrounds the valve, allowing upward movement of the assembly. Obviously, the valve guide retainer (horseshoe clip) MUST be removed before this tool can be used. You can usually make the lower slotted end catch the bottom of the valve guide thru the spring, but it's easier if you remove the valve spring. Tightening the handle forces the guide up......they usually come up with a pop! It doesn't shoot out, but pops up about a 1/4" .....enough to simply pull the assembly out with your fingers. If the guide was rusted into place, it should move up slowly (if it moves at all) and will be hard to get moving.

ON the VP page, I see valve tool C , I don't see how the cup on left surrounds the valve head to allow it to be pulled up ?

And, what it says about easier to remove the spring ISN'T .

Although, this info has given me an idea to make a tool like puller C, but with a top made of pipe bigger than the valve head and about 3 inches long where the whole valve head can fit up inside, when the screw is applied to the lower compressed spring on the guide..

JSeery · 05-02-2016, 06:33 PM

There are several valve tools that already exist (or did in the past) to do this job.

flatford39 · 05-02-2016, 06:40 PM

I tried all that stuff above for like a year. They were so stuck I cut the heads off the valves and drove them out the bottom. I am not looking forward to doing my next flathead but I know I will. All you guys that buy one of these that looks like it has been at the bottom of a lake for a number of years just don't know what they are getting into.

JSeery · 05-02-2016, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatford39

I tried all that stuff above for like a year. They were so stuck I cut the heads off the valves and drove them out the bottom. I am not looking forward to doing my next flathead but I know I will. All you guys that buy one of these that looks like it has been at the bottom of a lake for a number of years just don't know what they are getting into.

That is what I do. For one thing I don't try and save anything out of a froze up engine valve train! Break off the valve head and beat the pieces out of there. You can also use a torch to cut the bottom parts off but I have never had to resort to that.

Jack E/NJ · 05-02-2016, 07:26 PM

pooch>>>Don't get it, how do you insert another shim, when cam is turned back the spring will just compress back on the first shim ....?>>>

Cuz the first shim and fully compressed spring forced the guide up the bore 1/8". The spring is detentioned by the same amount when the cam is turned back. Letting you pry the spring up an additional 1/8" to insert another shim. Turning the cam then pushes the guide up the bore another 1/8". And so forth and so on till the guide, spring, valve and everything else lets loose and comes flying out the bore. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

pooch · 05-03-2016, 02:56 AM

So, how thick about is the first shim ?

rotorwrench · 05-03-2016, 08:47 AM

I've got several tools that will pry the horse shoe clips. and several that force the valve assembly out of the block. If one doesn't work I try the other. So far, they have always worked. The "All Power" valve puller set works very well and a KD-918 valve puller works well in a pinch. If those don't work you get the TCM valve puller set out. They are hard to find for good reason. Flathead guys that have them will keep them till they die.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...poison.406585/

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...20Brochure.pdf

08-26-2011, 01:57 PM	#1
throwback Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lee's Summit, Missouri Posts: 225	What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 What is the best method for pulling valves out of a 1937 Ford Flathead block without damaging the valve or bending the valve stem? Thanks

08-26-2011, 05:35 PM	#2
don's 37 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Palmyra, NY Posts: 195	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 Take a look in the Mac's early V8 catalog. They have all the tools available to do the job.

08-26-2011, 05:39 PM	#3
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 I'm assuming that the guides are so stuck that they can't be budged with a proper prybar to get the horseshoe clips out of their block recesses. The following may not be the best method, but it worked for an early 38 21-studder with stuck guides. Only one homemade drift tool and a half dozen or so 1/8" thick metal shims are required. First, with the valve closed on the heel of the cam, pry the spring up far enough to be able to wiggle the u-shaped valve retainer out from around the mushroom stem and relieve the spring pressure. Maybe a little tricky but they're usually loose enough to easily wiggle out from the inside of the valve spring. Then pull the valve up as high as it'll go. Liberally bathe the guide area with a 50-50 mixture of ATF/MEK or ATF/acetone. Let the mixture stew overnight. While you're waiting for the ATF/MEK magic to happen, fashion a homemade 4-6" long drift from stout 1/4"steel, brass or aluminum about ~1/2" wide. Pull the valve up and insert drift to the top of the guide. (You may have to file a small depression in the drift to clear the valve head more and give you better access to the top of the guide). After sitting overnight, pour more ATF/MEK into the valve chamber guide area. Then start sharply rapping, not pounding, the drift with a small hammer all around the guide while keeping the guide area well lubed the the ATF mixture. Some of the guides, usually the intakes first, will start to move down enough to pull the horseshoe clips free from their block recesses. Let the stubborn ones set another day or so, again well lubed with the ATF mixture, before rapping again. Patience is key. They will eventually all move down enough to get the clips out. Finally, put an 1/8" shim between the lifter and the mushroom stem. Then crank the engine to use the cam lobe to push the lifter against the shim, valve stem and spring. The well-lubed guide will start to rise up in its barrel. Move the cam back on its heel. Insert another 1/8" shim and repeat pushing with the cam lobe to raise the guide even higher. Keep inserting shims and cam lobe pushes until the spring, guide and valve come flying out of the barrel. It's best to cover the valve assembly and barrel with a cloth or can during this process to catch all the flying parts. 8^) Good luck. Jack E/NJ

08-26-2011, 07:03 PM	#4
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 And I thought I'd heard it all. That's a pretty clever technique, never heard that one. Seems to me though that if the guide is so tight as to require using the cam lobe to raise it, that the valve will split the guides and break off the bottom of the guide. I have used that technique to get the valve high enough to get a drift under the valve. I used the lever bar to force the valve up and the taper at the mushroom end will break away the lower part of the guide, enabling you to raise the valve even further. Of course, the result is the split guides are trash, not that you should ever attempt to reuse them.

08-26-2011, 07:24 PM	#5
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 Russ/40>>>the valve will split the guides and break off the bottom of the guide. >>> The spring fully compresses against the guide before the mushroom reaches the bottom of the guide. If you don't remove the mushroom valve retainer first, your guide is toast. Jack E/NJ

08-27-2011, 11:24 AM	#7
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 Russ/40>>>I undo the valve keeper first and wrestle the spring out. The valve is free to split the guide. >>> Leave the spring in to protect the guide from the mushroom. Jack E/NJ

08-27-2011, 11:55 AM	#9
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 Ooooo, how cruel! 8^) Jack E/NJ

05-02-2016, 05:41 PM	#10
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 Finally, put an 1/8" shim between the lifter and the mushroom stem. Then crank the engine to use the cam lobe to push the lifter against the shim, valve stem and spring. The well-lubed guide will start to rise up in its barrel. Move the cam back on its heel. Insert another 1/8" shim and repeat pushing with the cam lobe to raise the guide even higher. Keep inserting shims and cam lobe pushes until the spring, guide and valve come flying out of the barrel. It's best to cover the valve assembly and barrel with a cloth or can during this process to catch all the flying parts. 8^) Good luck. I did find both of the sites mentioned but could not understand either of them. This one says to put a 1/8th shim under, this is with the guide down a touch and horse shoe clip out, valve lower retainer out , but spring still in. I can understand the principle of compressing the spring fully and pushing the whole assembly out at top.. But, as I see it,you have prise the spring up a bit to insert the shim, then turn the engine and use the cam to push the spring up .. ONLY 1/8th inch and then insert another shim ....? Don't get it, how do you insert another shim, when cam is turned back the spring will just compress back on the first shim ....? ----------------------------------------------- Another tool (shown below - see picture C) basically forces the valve guide up from below by a screw action. Its top cup surrounds the valve, allowing upward movement of the assembly. Obviously, the valve guide retainer (horseshoe clip) MUST be removed before this tool can be used. You can usually make the lower slotted end catch the bottom of the valve guide thru the spring, but it's easier if you remove the valve spring. Tightening the handle forces the guide up......they usually come up with a pop! It doesn't shoot out, but pops up about a 1/4" .....enough to simply pull the assembly out with your fingers. If the guide was rusted into place, it should move up slowly (if it moves at all) and will be hard to get moving. ON the VP page, I see valve tool C , I don't see how the cup on left surrounds the valve head to allow it to be pulled up ? And, what it says about easier to remove the spring ISN'T . Although, this info has given me an idea to make a tool like puller C, but with a top made of pipe bigger than the valve head and about 3 inches long where the whole valve head can fit up inside, when the screw is applied to the lower compressed spring on the guide..

05-02-2016, 06:33 PM	#11
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 There are several valve tools that already exist (or did in the past) to do this job.

05-02-2016, 06:40 PM	#12
flatford39 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 499	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 I tried all that stuff above for like a year. They were so stuck I cut the heads off the valves and drove them out the bottom. I am not looking forward to doing my next flathead but I know I will. All you guys that buy one of these that looks like it has been at the bottom of a lake for a number of years just don't know what they are getting into.

05-02-2016, 07:26 PM	#14
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 pooch>>>Don't get it, how do you insert another shim, when cam is turned back the spring will just compress back on the first shim ....?>>> Cuz the first shim and fully compressed spring forced the guide up the bore 1/8". The spring is detentioned by the same amount when the cam is turned back. Letting you pry the spring up an additional 1/8" to insert another shim. Turning the cam then pushes the guide up the bore another 1/8". And so forth and so on till the guide, spring, valve and everything else lets loose and comes flying out the bore. 8^) Jack E/NJ

05-03-2016, 02:56 AM	#15
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 So, how thick about is the first shim ?

05-03-2016, 08:47 AM	#16
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: What is the best method of pulling valves in a 1937 I've got several tools that will pry the horse shoe clips. and several that force the valve assembly out of the block. If one doesn't work I try the other. So far, they have always worked. The "All Power" valve puller set works very well and a KD-918 valve puller works well in a pinch. If those don't work you get the TCM valve puller set out. They are hard to find for good reason. Flathead guys that have them will keep them till they die. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...poison.406585/ http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...20Brochure.pdf