Questions.

[MattA]

Hi all,

Tons of questions. Trying to wake up a '23 T that's been in a barn for 6 or 7 years.

So far:

1. removed plugs and squirted oil in cylinders - valve-in-block may mean that I squirted oil into intake or exhaust on one or more cylinders

2. changed oil

3. flushed fuel system

4. new 6v battery

I can get strings of 2, 3 or 4 cylinders firing but no idle yet. I'm guessing I should replace the carb or have it rebuilt. Sound reasonable? Best place for rebuild or purchase? Also, I'd like to put a fuel shutoff on the input side of the carb. Where is the best place to buy these?


Second possible problem:

The buzz coils make the correct noise intermittently. At this point, I'm thinking maybe "intermittent open". These coils seem to be a weak point. Is there some modern solid state solution I could use to bypass these coils? I could always keep the originals in case the next owner wanted to go back stock.

Where's the best place to buy tires -- 30x3.5 (I think)?

Thanks!

[jimTN]

Check the archive, there is an excellent piece about what to do when starting a T that has been sitting for a good while. If you can turn the crank with the switch on to batt, and hear all four coils buzzing one at a time then thats good. Drain the carb in a jar and look to see what kind of sediment comes out. Pull the mag plig which is on top of the hogs head and clean the spring on it. Pull the commutater and put some light brease in it. These things should help. Where are you located, there should be someone in your area that could help.

[A bones]

I would first want to know that the valves are closing.Sitting that long the can easily hang up. The spring pressure is less than you'd imagine, run a compression test. If it doesn't give a decent uniform ( within reason ) result I would give it a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil. Some in the gas tank and some in the crankcase. If compression checks out OK then you may be right about the coils.
I am deficient in the mag/coil department since I bought mine with an old Delco distributor ( Jeep )
When redmodelt or rotorwrench show up you will get the whole story. Excellent tutors of mechanical knowledge

[rotorwrench]

As mentioned, sticky or stuck valves are a major concern on an engine that has set up a long time. Check compression. Oil in an intake or exhaust valve wont hurt anything,

The coils only buzz when the timer aligns with each coil in firing order. If one is not working then that one would need repair or adjustment.

The carb may be a Holley NH or maybe a Kingston. These carbs are simple with the throttle & choke being the only moving parts other than the float valve. The idle passage has to be clear and clean in order for it to idle properly. The main needle has to be adjusted properly for start. It may start better on hand crank than with a starter. Just make sure to retard the spark control. Ford fractures are no fun.

The fuel tanks can get gummed up with old varnish from evaporated fuel that should be cleaned out if in the bottom of the tank. Some Ts have a petcock on the outflow of the tank but after so many years, that may not be the case. The fuel line can also get plugged from the old varnish that comes loose when new fuel is put into and old tank that's been setting so long.

When the coils, timer (or commutator), and spark plugs are all in good order, the model T ignition system is a reliable system with many proven years under it's belt. Plugs can get fouled and not function properly. Do a search on model T either here on this forum or on the MTFCA forum. Searches on Google will sometimes bring them up for questions you may have about the care and operation of model Ts. A trembler coil tester is good to have when checking coils for function and doing adjustments. Otherwise a person is shooting in the dark. All the old Fords have their own specific tools for maintenance. Most folks are astounded by the way the model Ts work. When you pull an engine through a few times to get a prime charge and get it up close to TDC on any cylinder then turn on the coils, it can sometimes give you a free start (starts by itself). Folks are amazed when an operator can get it to do this. This can't happen with a distributor.

[redmodelt]

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/269084.html

If you are handy with a meter, check the 2 side terminals, you should get a reading of around 3500-3800 ohms ballpark (some test a little higher or lower). If you get an open, then the secondary windings are open, and coil will not work. Even if the reading is within that range, it is not 100% that that coil is usable, there are other test that most of us are not setup to do.

If you are going to use coils, I highly suggest getting them rebuilt or replace with rebuilt ones if they have not been. There are a few guys that do it or you can get them via the parts sellers with exchange. Usually there is a guy that sells them outright on eBay.


If the coils pass that test and to get the car running, clean the contacts on the points and set to about .032. There is more involved to tune the coils but for now should work.

If you have don't have a copy, I suggest getting the "Ford Service" book. The parts sellers should have them in stock.

[MattA]

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Originally Posted by jimTN

Check the archive, there is an excellent piece about what to do when starting a T that has been sitting for a good while. If you can turn the crank with the switch on to batt, and hear all four coils buzzing one at a time then thats good. Drain the carb in a jar and look to see what kind of sediment comes out. Pull the mag plig which is on top of the hogs head and clean the spring on it. Pull the commutater and put some light brease in it. These things should help. Where are you located, there should be someone in your area that could help.

The tank had some serious nastiness in it and I would have replaced it if it was not so buried in the body. I'm not sure but guessing the body has to come off to replace it? Screwed into the bottom of the tank was a huge brass body with on/off valve that looks purpose built to contain gas tank crap. Aftermarket?

Also, more weirdness ...... Looks like all the gas I left in the gas tank a few days back has drained out. ??

I couldn't find "mag plig" no matter where I searched so when I saw the term "hogs head" I thought I was on a snipe hunt. :-) That term I found. :-)

I'm about 30 minutes south of Dothan, Alabama. If anyone knows of someone who likes Model T whips-n-chains masochism, I'd pay well for the privilege of watching them go at it. :-)

[MattA]

Originally Posted by A bones

I would first want to know that the valves are closing.Sitting that long the can easily hang up. The spring pressure is less than you'd imagine, run a compression test. If it doesn't give a decent uniform ( within reason ) result I would give it a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil. Some in the gas tank and some in the crankcase. If compression checks out OK then you may be right about the coils.
I am deficient in the mag/coil department since I bought mine with an old Delco distributor ( Jeep )
When redmodelt or rotorwrench show up you will get the whole story. Excellent tutors of mechanical knowledge

I'll be heading to the auto parts store tomorrow before my new Model T work session to get some Marvel Oil. Thanks!

[MattA]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The carb may be a Holley NH or maybe a Kingston. These carbs are simple with the throttle & choke being the only moving parts other than the float valve. The idle passage has to be clear and clean in order for it to idle properly. The main needle has to be adjusted properly for start.

The fuel tanks can get gummed up with old varnish from evaporated fuel that should be cleaned out if in the bottom of the tank. Some Ts have a petcock on the outflow of the tank but after so many years, that may not be the case.

Attached is a pic of the carb and fuel tank petcock. Since I lost a couple gallons of fuel in as many days, something tells me the carb has a problem?

Right now, I've got the inclination to replace/rebuild the carb before going any further. I mean .... it can't hurt .... right?

[MattA]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/269084.html

If you are handy with a meter, check the 2 side terminals, you should get a reading of around 3500-3800 ohms ballpark (some test a little higher or lower). If you get an open, then the secondary windings are open, and coil will not work. Even if the reading is within that range, it is not 100% that that coil is usable, there are other test that most of us are not setup to do.

If you are going to use coils......

The coil rebuilder I found charges 40 per coil. Just seems like at $160, I could find a modern replacement without too much problem. I'm just not finding that replacement. ???

BTW, this T has an aftermarket water pump. It's pretty wild looking .....

[rotorwrench]

The folks I knew around Dothan & Enterprise beat me into the ground so maybe someone else around there can help. The hogs head is basically the transmission area. The mag pick up for the magnets on the flywheel is at the top of the flywheel case. The model T had a big magneto. On cars with no generator, they ran high voltage bulbs in the headlamps so the magneto could power them. If the car has a starter then it likely has a generator too. That stuff started coming in around 1919 after WWI. They finally got basic electrical systems with a battery and all in the early 20s.

It depends on which body a person has and where it was assembled as to fuel tank location. Many were the oval gas tank in that era. The phaeton and others would be under the front seat and some coupes had them in the trunk area.

The photo is a sediment bulb and petcock combo. The carburetor appears to be a Holley NH. It has a 3-brush generator on it. Water pumps were generally an accessory item with some very early Ts being an exception.

[MattA]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The folks I knew around Dothan & Enterprise beat me into the ground .....

There's a story there, I think.

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

It depends on which body a person has and where it was assembled as to fuel tank location. Many were the oval gas tank in that era. The phaeton and others would be under the front seat and some coupes had them in the trunk area.

This tank is under the passenger side front seat. Any chance you could message me with a good place to buy a new carb or rebuild the old carb?

[stevests]

The "sediment bulb" under the tank appears to be a new repro from Snyder's (manufacturer & parts vendor) - from the looks of the engine compartment, it also appears to have been "rode hard & put away wet" !

Ron Patterson is my go-to coil guy in Michigan - google "coilman" and Corey Walker in Texas is my go-to carburetor guy - can't go wrong with either one of these gentlemen !

What is the body style ? The gas tank (oval ?) should go clear across UNLESS it's a Centerdoor which is square & under the driver's seat.

[redmodelt]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17538050011...temCondition=4
Rebuilders are going to want rebuildable cores or will charge extra for one. Plus you need to ship yours to them, some may want the cores before starting yours.
Good idea to install a shutoff valve at the carb. I use the 1/8th inch ball valves in the fuel line.
For rebuilding carburetor try Corry Walker; https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=14271

[rotorwrench]

This link will give a person a very good idea of how to go about repairing an old Holley NH carburetor. They are a very rudimentary unit but the ravages of time can take there toll and bring the difficulty factor up a good bit. You really can't find a much more simple automobile carburetor than this. New reproduction parts are available for them.
https://modeltfordfix.com/rebuilding...-model-t-ford/

This link gives an idea what it takes to remove a fuel tank from a Touring model (phaeton)
of that era.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1483631146

We would need to know which body you have to help further.

[redmodelt]

The coil rebuilder I found charges 40 per coil. Just seems like at $160, I could find a modern replacement without too much problem. I'm just not finding that replacement. ???

Modern replacement; https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...3575&cat=41847

Re the tires, there really is no "BEST" place. It depends on who has stock and at what price you want to pay. Tires and head gaskets have been having supply issues.

[39portlander]

Matt welcome to the Fordbarn, lots of good input so far here is my .02

getting a T that has been sitting you really should start with some fresh coils and a new timer with good solid clean wiring from the key switch through out.

Brent Mize is The coil Doctor and as his add says "We fix sick and broken tickers" He is a wealth of talent and knowledge to this hobby and there are a lot of great folks out there. Don't waste your time with so called modern replacements. You can get good old Ford coils and if they check out have them rebuilt by Brent.

Fun projects makes the CT-2 "coil beeper" worth it's weight in gold when searching for yard sale/swap meet coils.

Do a compression test on all cylinders and most important are the sealing areas around your intake/exhaust manifold.

If that has been sitting chances are your exhaust system is full of acorns ect. Our dear rodent population love Model T's.

Holley NH you can find them all day on the the MTFCA parts for sale, Corey Walker has them frequently. Get the full flow float valve from Scott Conger another great parts supplier for the NH carb on the MTFCA.

Remember the magic number to a great operating NH is 1/4" to 5/16" from the underside of the float to the bowl gasket lip "with gasket out"

Tires....oh boy, if you can find them I like the Lesters but the tubes/flaps ect are currently hard to come by. Good luck and let us know how you do getting this 23 back-A-roll'n!

[redmodelt]

"Get the full flow float valve from Scott Conger another great parts supplier for the NH carb on the MTFCA."
Scott is sold out till fall.

[39portlander]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

"Get the full flow float valve from Scott Conger another great parts supplier for the NH carb on the MTFCA."
Scott is sold out till fall.

Worth the wait, and get several for your back up NH's.

Always keep a spare in your onboard parts bag, your buddy may need it to get home.

[redmodelt]

https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30975
Shows the valve and tool he makes to remove and install.