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Old 07-14-2022, 10:00 PM   #1
ports
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Default Frustrated

Before I start, I was able to get all the paper work completed and antique plates on my new purchase. What I am frustrated with is I am having trouble starting it. When I went to look at the car it started and drove good. I have followed all the procedures for starting and nothing. The man who sold me the car( owner of 40 yrs passed) gave me this procedure. After fully retarding the spark, turning on gas valve, and turning on ignition, set gav at 1 o’clock (9. Ring completely off). Then move hand throttle up and down several time and leave it down a couple of notches. Hit started and pull choke out the right back in. Did this and it turned over and started. It would not continue to run. He told me to tap on foot throttle lightly to keep running. It did for a short time and then stopped. I have a couple of questions I would like to have an answer for. Number 1-i know the hand throttle should not be opened too far but when I pull hand throttle down it only goes to about 3 or 4 o’clock and the won’t go down any further. Is that how it should operate or should it easily go down further. Could something be wrong with the hand throttle linkage and if so how can I check and correct? All the videos and articles on starting never go through this hassle. Starts and a little foot throttle to keep going. 2nd. After it initially starts how quickly do you advance the spark. Is there anything else I can check step by step to try to identify my problem? I have Les Andrews books and have looked in there. I know they can be tricky starting. I know it has to be something simple because I herd it run good when I looked at the car. I am trying to find someone in the Pottsville Pa. area that is knowledgeable on the model a to help. Hope someone here can give me sad ice that I can follow clearly to find the problem and get it out on the road and enjoy. I am a newbie to model a’s but have read a lot and watched numerous videos to learn as much as I can. I am very willing to learn and willing to do my part to do so. I am not the type who wants everything done for them. I just want to learn so I can do S much as possible. Thank you for listening. A frustrated newbie, Ports
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:10 PM   #2
Bob C
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Here is a link to a good video on starting a Model A.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ViOXhPNfs
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:10 PM   #3
Mike Peters
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Welcome to the hobby and very sorry you are having trouble starting your car. Try turning your GAV a full turn open from closed when starting cold, and then close it down after warm up. Or maybe open a quarter turn. This part is played by ear. Do whatever your engine and carburetor like best. But it sounds like your engine is not getting enough gas initially starting cold, so crank the GAV open.
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Old 07-14-2022, 11:11 PM   #4
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Trying to help here but it will likely confuse you more. I go the opposite way to Mike. As soon as the car fires, push the choke in (you may have to restart it but that's OK) and very soon after, start reducing the GAV opening and start advancing the timing. Don't be afraid to use more throttle to keep it going. That said, there is no point moving the throttle lever up and down before you start it and no point pumping the accelerator to keep it going. These carburettors don't have an accelerator pump.
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Old 07-15-2022, 04:24 AM   #5
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Do you try starting the car immediately after opening the gas valve? Do you have the original sediment bowl on the fuels way to the carburetor?
I have an in line fuel filter on mine and I find I need to open the valve on the bottom of my tank and let the gas flow for 30 seconds before starting the car, otherwise it’s starving for fuel. It will fire but barely and won’t keep running.
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Old 07-15-2022, 06:38 AM   #6
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Below is a link to a video that shows how to start the car. The starting procedure starts about half way through the video. They do not show how to turn on the gas but that should be done before starting. The original instruction manual that came with the car also has a good explanation of how to start the car. The manual is available at the suppliers in case the original one has been lost. The choke should only be pulled out for the initial half turn of the engine and not at all with a warmed up engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eukZ9E_eofM
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Old 07-15-2022, 07:51 AM   #7
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Maybe try a phone call, or better yet a visit to Ora Landis at Schwalms. Very knowledgeable and may be able to help you. Good luck bk
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:10 AM   #8
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I had to read your post twice, then I saw your location…..Pottsville Pa…..you can add your location to your profile! Pottsville Pa is a little to far for me
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:12 AM   #9
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Hello, I found that pulling the choke while pushing down the starter my car will start after about 4 cranks spark is up and if the weather is cold,below 50 I open the gav one turn, this is turned back to 1/4 as engine warms up , spark is advanced to 1/2 to let engine warm up then advance to about 3/4 and adjust to best engine performance.The reason spark is backed off is to keep engine from breaking it , the choke and gav enriches the fuel mixture,that can be reduced as engine worms up. I know it’s difficult to start these older cars compared to just pressing a button as newer cars, but one you developed the “skills “ to start them it will be second nature . Good luck and don’t give up!
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:10 AM   #10
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To all who replied I can't thank you enough. I know that once I figure this out I will be fine. I guess I am a little afraid that I will do something that will harm the engine. I have looked at many videos on starting and have a copy of the owner's manual and have read through that many times. Honestly, I have done my homework. The one question that I have not had answered is concerning the hand throttle. How far can it come down and how easily does it come down. If you pull it half way down, does it stay their on it's own or do you have to hold it there. If anyone can answer that question it would help me. Is there anything that could possibly be lubricated or adjusted? I have not see very much information ( not even in Les Andrews book) about the carburetor linkages. I have looked at it but don't completely understand what I am looking at. Another question. I have read that sometimes the points have to be cleaned off. The master mechanic who owned the car for 40 yrs passed and his daughter did not try to sell for about a year and a half. The car sat in a garage for that period. Because of that is there anything you think I should do or check because it sat. I'm sure it was in tip top shape before he passed. It was like family to him. I know I have a lot of questions and learning to do. Just very anxious to get behind the wheel and drive and enjoy. I will not give up. Oh, someone asked me to update my profile. Can anyone help by informing me how to do that. Thank's again. I will keep you informed. Ports
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Old 07-15-2022, 11:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: Frustrated

Hand throttle.
Just look at it. If the grooves are worn then it may not stay in place for very long. That really doesn't hurt anything.

Open the hood and see how far the throttle opens. It doesn't have to go full throttle. It really only needs to raise the idle speed a bit.

A couple 'clicks' down is all thats needed for starting. As you pull it down you'll notice the door throttle start to move.
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Old 07-15-2022, 12:10 PM   #12
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Not trying to be a smart guy here but your car has a gas tank valve or switch and you need to open that up as well and I noticed your guy left that off the procedures. The switch will be under the dash/gas tank or under the hood on a 31. Also be sure you have gas in the tank for it to start. If it initially ran for a bit and you have goose eggs now, that could be your issue.

Another trick is tap the carb bowl, you could have a stuck float. Especially if the car has not seen frequent use. Try these two fixes, I have seen them solve a few starting problems with an A.

Good luck!
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Old 07-15-2022, 12:15 PM   #13
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Top of this page under the ford barn is used cp, click on that, top left user details, click on that, at the bottom is user details add your location

On the back side of the motor from the top is the linage for your throttle, each side there are oil cups which maybe dry! Add a couple of drops of your favorite oil, this may help with your hand throttle foot throttle issues!

For cold starting timing lever up, hand throttle lever down 2-3 clicks, GAV open 1/2 to 1 turn, ignition switch on, pull the choke, step on starter, release choke after 2-3 turns of the engine, engine should roar to life, return hand throttle lever up, move timing lever down 2-3 clicks, rev the engine with foot throttle.

I would clean points and set them if you have a no start or runs bad, I’ve used parts box cardboard cut into small thin strips and pulled it through the points.

Keep at it and good luck ! You’ll get it eventually
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Old 07-15-2022, 12:52 PM   #14
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Another thing to check, and I know this one is a long shot. But when I got my Model A home after test driving and starting it several times at the previous owner's shop it would not start to pull it off the trailer.

After my initial frustration passed and I started doing basic troubleshooting I noticed the choke/GAV control rod had come loose from the carb sometime during the journey across 4 states to get it back home. The lever on the carb has a small knob that fits in a channel on the choke/GAV control rod that allows it to turn and pull. Once I hooked that back up and actually had a functioning choke and GAV control it fired right up.
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Old 07-15-2022, 01:22 PM   #15
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I might also eyeball the glass bowl where your gas filter or first screen is, this is to catch sediment. It could be gunked up. I have seen these bowls literally full of crud, and even chunks of rust. If anyone installed an inline filter I would check that as well.
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Old 07-15-2022, 01:27 PM   #16
ports
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To all again who replied thank you. You can’t know how good this makes me feel and how much I learn. It gives me confidence. Zax40, I will check that. I to thought that maybe something came loose or was damaged during the trip from Mass to Pa. Ido know to turn on the gas valve. I will fool with the fav to try to find the sweet spot. Also I will go easy on the choke and try some of the suggestion all of you gave me. I should have mentioned that I took the glass sediment bowl off and cleaned. While off I drained the gas from tank and put ethanol free gas in the tank. I put a filter in the. Owl. When I turned on the gas valve the sediment bowl filled up. Is there anything else I should have done before I tried to start. Will keep all informed. Am currently visiting my daughter and my grandkids in NH and won’t be back in Pa. Antilles the beginning of August to try some of your suggestions. On the bottom of the distributor there is a cap that lifts up. I am assuming that is where I oil the distributor. On videos I hav seen it looked like people were pullin out a small plug on the bottom and dropping oil in there not flipping up a cap. On my coupe there is a manifold heater that somewhat blocks the oil fill. I looked on the screw on the top oh distributor cam and there was no hole to oil. Can you buy a screw with a hole in for oiling. That’s all I can think of right now. Thanks again.
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Old 07-15-2022, 02:20 PM   #17
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Distributor cam screw with hole ___ Bratton's Antique Auto --- 1-800-255-1929
Part No. 17520 $2.00 set.

Welcome to the Model A Ford. You'll love it! Have owned and driven one since Jan 1994.

Didn't know the difference between an intake and exhaust valve when I bought the car. The car is so simple that I received a lot of instruction on how to do a valve job via phone not too long after purchase.

I'm still surprised at how well the car does in city trafffic if you stay off the interstates. And look how many have survived after more than 90 years!
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Old 07-15-2022, 02:40 PM   #18
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I only live an hour from you and would be willing to help you understand things about starting your car. contact me thru private message and we can schedule a time to meet.
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Old 07-15-2022, 02:49 PM   #19
Rob Doe
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Ports, x2 on the above comments. The hand throttle on our coupe moves 2 or 3 notches down before the foot throttle starts to move at all. This is wear, slack, or an inaccurate bend in the throttle linkage at 90 years of age. The linkage on the hand throttle is connected to the foot throttle. I suggest you look down at the foot throttle as you move the hand throttle to be sure the foot has actually moved down a small amount for starting. As said previously, a couple notches after it starts to move. The engine on our coupe won't start without the throttle being opened slightly from idle position.
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:30 PM   #20
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Another thing that I don’t think anyone mentioned is to open the carburetor bowl just enough to drain any water that may have accumulated in the bowl. This happens a lot when E-10 gas is used and has often happened to me, usually when the car has been sitting up for a while.

Last edited by Robert/Texas; 07-15-2022 at 03:33 PM. Reason: adding on
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