The Ford Barn

mcgarrett · 07-29-2022, 05:42 PM

Digging through my Model A parts stash today, and discovered these and would like to know if either of these are considered to be good quality and would you use them in your engine. Both are phenolic impregnated fabric. The Allstate part is NOS; not sure about the maker of the one with aluminum hub. Should I consider using either one? I'm leaning more toward the one with the aluminum embedded in the hub, but what do I know. Appreciate feedback from Barn experts on this topic.

mcgarrett · 07-29-2022, 05:44 PM

...here's the photo!

ronn · 07-29-2022, 05:44 PM

either of what?

pls be clearer

mcgarrett · 07-29-2022, 05:47 PM

Timing gears...see photo below my original post. Forgot to attach it!

Synchro909 · 07-29-2022, 05:51 PM

I'd frizbee the one with the aluminium centre as far as I could. The other has some value, though not a lot a similar one from the vendors would give a clue on that. Just MHO.

nkaminar · 07-29-2022, 06:10 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Buy an aluminum one.

mcgarrett · 07-29-2022, 06:20 PM

Interesting feedback. I agree that an aluminum gear is FAR better that either of these. Sounds like Syncro909 has had some experience with at least one of them!

The Master Cylinder · 07-29-2022, 07:18 PM

I agree with Synchro. The aluminum hub is know to come loose.

Bob C · 07-29-2022, 07:43 PM

The hub comes loose from the gear on the left one.

Bill Cilker · 07-29-2022, 10:50 PM

I had one with the metal center that lasted 5,000 miles. Toss it quick, It will come loose

Bob Bidonde · 07-30-2022, 08:21 AM

I am leery about the aged fiber gear because it may lost some of its mechanical properties over time. The aluminum gear is the way to go in my opinion.

Dave in MN · 07-30-2022, 08:50 AM

The one thing about an aluminum timing gear is that you can often hear them "tink" when the engine is at idle. This may be more pronounced when they are new. I have heard this sound every time I have run a new engine with an aluminum timing gear on my engine stand.
The fiberglass timing gears are always quiet.

jack backer · 07-30-2022, 08:52 AM

Bronze is available as well.Metal gear noise is from an inherent chatter driving a 4 cylinder camshaft. This is why ford used fiber, to quiet the engine. It’s also why modern engines use timing chains or belts.

rotorwrench · 07-30-2022, 09:07 AM

The one branded Allstate is likely a rebrand for Sears & Sawbucks. It would likely last as long as any of them if it's been stored well. The ones made with phenolic resin reinforced linen cloth were about as good as the plastic ones got.

Molding a plastic gear with metal hub may have looked OK on the drawing board but the two materials have different expansion coefficients. It would have actually worked better if it was pressed on with no cog teeth like Ford did it for many years. Pressed on gears were used for quite a few years before changing to bolt on gears and they worked fine as long as they were good quality.

Metal gears can make a noticable whiring sound that increases in frequency with rpm. This was the reason that Ford and many other manufacturers used the laminated gears.

Herb Concord Ca · 07-30-2022, 12:33 PM

I agree, toss the fiber gears and buy an aluminum gear. Both my A's have aluminum timing gears and both are quiet.

mcgarrett · 07-30-2022, 01:24 PM

Will do guys, thanks!

Ordsgt · 07-30-2022, 01:48 PM

I put an aluminum gear in a month ago and it is quiet. The fiber gear was missing 1/3 of its teeth( and still working!)

07-29-2022, 05:42 PM	#1
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Either of these worth using? Digging through my Model A parts stash today, and discovered these and would like to know if either of these are considered to be good quality and would you use them in your engine. Both are phenolic impregnated fabric. The Allstate part is NOS; not sure about the maker of the one with aluminum hub. Should I consider using either one? I'm leaning more toward the one with the aluminum embedded in the hub, but what do I know. Appreciate feedback from Barn experts on this topic.

07-29-2022, 05:44 PM	#3
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,789	Re: Either of these worth using? either of what? pls be clearer

07-29-2022, 05:47 PM	#4
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: Either of these worth using? Timing gears...see photo below my original post. Forgot to attach it!

07-29-2022, 05:51 PM	#5
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Either of these worth using? I'd frizbee the one with the aluminium centre as far as I could. The other has some value, though not a lot a similar one from the vendors would give a clue on that. Just MHO. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

07-29-2022, 06:10 PM	#6
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Either of these worth using? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Buy an aluminum one. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

07-29-2022, 06:20 PM	#7
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: Either of these worth using? Interesting feedback. I agree that an aluminum gear is FAR better that either of these. Sounds like Syncro909 has had some experience with at least one of them!

07-29-2022, 07:18 PM	#8
The Master Cylinder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 880	Re: Either of these worth using? I agree with Synchro. The aluminum hub is know to come loose. __________________ The Master Cylinder Enjoying life at the beach in SoCal...

07-29-2022, 10:50 PM	#10
Bill Cilker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Milpitas, CA Posts: 398	Re: Either of these worth using? I had one with the metal center that lasted 5,000 miles. Toss it quick, It will come loose __________________ Bill Cilker, Jr Unrestored 190A Victoria 45B, 160B & 189A Victoria Association President

07-30-2022, 08:21 AM	#11
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,466	Re: Either of these worth using? I am leery about the aged fiber gear because it may lost some of its mechanical properties over time. The aluminum gear is the way to go in my opinion. __________________ Bob Bidonde

07-30-2022, 09:07 AM	#14
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: Either of these worth using? The one branded Allstate is likely a rebrand for Sears & Sawbucks. It would likely last as long as any of them if it's been stored well. The ones made with phenolic resin reinforced linen cloth were about as good as the plastic ones got. Molding a plastic gear with metal hub may have looked OK on the drawing board but the two materials have different expansion coefficients. It would have actually worked better if it was pressed on with no cog teeth like Ford did it for many years. Pressed on gears were used for quite a few years before changing to bolt on gears and they worked fine as long as they were good quality. Metal gears can make a noticable whiring sound that increases in frequency with rpm. This was the reason that Ford and many other manufacturers used the laminated gears. Last edited by rotorwrench; 07-30-2022 at 09:43 AM.

07-30-2022, 12:33 PM	#15
Herb Concord Ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Concord CA Posts: 637	Re: Either of these worth using? I agree, toss the fiber gears and buy an aluminum gear. Both my A's have aluminum timing gears and both are quiet.

07-30-2022, 01:24 PM	#16
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: Either of these worth using? Will do guys, thanks!

07-30-2022, 01:48 PM	#17
Ordsgt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Yorktown Virginia Posts: 181	Re: Either of these worth using? I put an aluminum gear in a month ago and it is quiet. The fiber gear was missing 1/3 of its teeth( and still working!)