The Ford Barn

ETAModel · 06-12-2022, 10:23 PM

Since 2019 the 30 Fordor would leak a little water from out around the packing nut, and I'd tighten it with a screwdriver. Looking into the future I ordered some packing material, and was surprised it came in what looks like original Ford parts packaging. The pump hasn't leaked in a couple months and I thought I had it tightened correctly and no issues.

Last week I noticed it leaked a little on the timing cover and I tightened the nut, and it felt like I was almost out of threads. Yesterday doing routine maintenance I gave the zerks 2 pumps with the grease gun and went on my way. I drove it about 80 miles in scorching heat.

Today I checked the water and added 1/2 gallon and took off, driving about 40 miles. I came home and parked her. Later I moved her and she had leaked a lot of water on the driveway. I tracked it down to the pump housing. It looked like time to use the packing material I bought in February. I know many advocate using the leakless pump, and I may replace it with one in the future. But right now I want to get her on the road so I need some advice.

I tried a search of here and found tons of threads about water pumps. but nothing on how to properly pack the pump. I have packed other pumps and water wells, but never a Model A. Do I fill the backside of the nut with grease? I understand which way to wrap the thread, but do I use all of the foot or so of material they supplied ? After I pack it and tighten it do I grease it until it doesn't leak? Do I remove the old packing material or leave it in place? How tight do I get the nut? Until it doesn't leak I'm guessing.

I also tried YouTube, it wasn't much help either.

Thanks in advance.

ETAModel · 06-12-2022, 11:30 PM

Its late and been a long day, but I just thought of Les Andrew's red book. I'll give it a look see.

nkaminar · 06-13-2022, 06:25 AM

I instructions I have seen are to not remove the old packing but add to it. Put as much in as you can and it would not hurt to add a little grease. Are you using a water proof grease designed for water pumps? The instruction from Snyders is to cut individual rings and stagger the joints. Snyders sell water pump grease, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9232&cat=41924

CT Jack · 06-13-2022, 07:08 AM

The best way to pack your pump and enjoy driving your "A" is to hang it up on your garage wall for display, or rebuild it with leakless seals, or buy a leakless pump. No one will know the difference except you. It would seem living in Texas places great importance on keeping the cooling system full at all times.

ETAModel · 06-13-2022, 09:15 AM

I've been using standard grease gun grease. Maybe that's where I went wrong. TSC has 3% lithium grease, I'll get some and try it.
Thanks.

old ugly · 06-13-2022, 09:38 AM

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the front zerk will use standard grease. the rear one closest to the head is suggested a water soluble grease incase it enters the cooling system. that grease will not stop the water leak it is only to lubricate the shaft and bushings.
like said above back off the packing nut, wrap the shaft with packing material (regular grease on that rope will help). screw the nut back on, run the engine, you will probably have to back off the packing nut and wrap the shaft a few times to get sufficient packing material in there. maybe a few times.
i would buy more than one packing, it seams to use lots.
checking that packing nut is part of maintenance, tighten it if needed and add packing if need be.
you don't need a leakless water pump.

Kevin in NJ · 06-13-2022, 02:04 PM

Leakless water pumps work great till they leak. I have seen that happen a few times.

There are leakless water pumps with a packing seal too. That way if the seal goes you can keep on going. That would be the smarter choice.

rotorwrench · 06-13-2022, 03:22 PM

Originally Ford used a rope like spongy lead packing that was wrapped several turns in the packing nut but it was changed in a service bulletin to a formed C-ring of lead foil with a lubricant. The modern packing aren't an open C but a round closed lead and moly o-ring that fits the groove. They usually stack two of these together but they have to have the shaft out to use them closed. They can be carefully cut to a C and installed but,as was already mentioned the cuts have to be staggered 180 degrees from each other.

Ford likely used a calcium soap type grease with a low melt point so bits of it won't clog the radiator tubes. I use Lubriplate 130-AA grease since it is a calcium soap grease with a low melt point. Calcium soap type greases are resistant to water wash so they are good for this type of pump. A person can use other type of grease but I would look for a grease with a melt point of 170 degrees F or less.

katy · 06-14-2022, 09:51 AM

I was taught that when cutting packing to go around a shaft, to cut it on a 45° angle so that when compressed by the packing nut it seals better than a 90° cut.
Your mileage may vary.

Ruth · 06-14-2022, 10:18 AM

The packing rings Snyder's offers is cut at 45° for you. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9269&cat=41793

Perry · 06-22-2022, 01:03 PM

where can I find a water soluble grease?

rotorwrench · 06-22-2022, 02:32 PM

A grease with a low melt point would be sufficient. Most greases are a soap mixed with an oil. Some grease soaps may mix with water but oils don't. Oil always gravitates to the top in water since the oil is lighter.

jak · 06-22-2022, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perry

where can I find a water soluble grease?

https://www.brattons.com/WATER-PUMP-...uctinfo/12270/

ETAModel · 06-22-2022, 04:34 PM

Follow up.
I made 4 wraps of the material around the shaft, going clockwise. I then tightened the nut, filled the radiator and fired her up.
The pump leaked at first but I tightened the nut until it stopped leaking. It's been driven about 60 miles and still no leaks. I'm thrilled.

katy · 06-23-2022, 09:52 AM

Best to tighten the packing nut while the engine is running, a little at a time until it stops leaking.

Ruth · 06-23-2022, 10:14 AM

It gets confusing, one vendor sells low temp grease, another sell high temp grease. Wouldn't low temp grease get "washed away" easily, resulting in no lubrication?

ETAModel · 06-23-2022, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

Best to tighten the packing nut while the engine is running, a little at a time until it stops leaking.

That's what I did. I got the threads started then fired her up.

06-12-2022, 10:23 PM	#1
ETAModel Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Along the Red River, Texas Posts: 360	How to pack the old style water pump Since 2019 the 30 Fordor would leak a little water from out around the packing nut, and I'd tighten it with a screwdriver. Looking into the future I ordered some packing material, and was surprised it came in what looks like original Ford parts packaging. The pump hasn't leaked in a couple months and I thought I had it tightened correctly and no issues. Last week I noticed it leaked a little on the timing cover and I tightened the nut, and it felt like I was almost out of threads. Yesterday doing routine maintenance I gave the zerks 2 pumps with the grease gun and went on my way. I drove it about 80 miles in scorching heat. Today I checked the water and added 1/2 gallon and took off, driving about 40 miles. I came home and parked her. Later I moved her and she had leaked a lot of water on the driveway. I tracked it down to the pump housing. It looked like time to use the packing material I bought in February. I know many advocate using the leakless pump, and I may replace it with one in the future. But right now I want to get her on the road so I need some advice. I tried a search of here and found tons of threads about water pumps. but nothing on how to properly pack the pump. I have packed other pumps and water wells, but never a Model A. Do I fill the backside of the nut with grease? I understand which way to wrap the thread, but do I use all of the foot or so of material they supplied ? After I pack it and tighten it do I grease it until it doesn't leak? Do I remove the old packing material or leave it in place? How tight do I get the nut? Until it doesn't leak I'm guessing. I also tried YouTube, it wasn't much help either. Thanks in advance.

06-12-2022, 11:30 PM	#2
ETAModel Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Along the Red River, Texas Posts: 360	Re: How to pack the old style water pump Its late and been a long day, but I just thought of Les Andrew's red book. I'll give it a look see.

06-13-2022, 06:25 AM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: How to pack the old style water pump I instructions I have seen are to not remove the old packing but add to it. Put as much in as you can and it would not hurt to add a little grease. Are you using a water proof grease designed for water pumps? The instruction from Snyders is to cut individual rings and stagger the joints. Snyders sell water pump grease, see https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9232&cat=41924 __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

06-13-2022, 07:08 AM	#4
CT Jack Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hebron, CT Posts: 432	Re: How to pack the old style water pump The best way to pack your pump and enjoy driving your "A" is to hang it up on your garage wall for display, or rebuild it with leakless seals, or buy a leakless pump. No one will know the difference except you. It would seem living in Texas places great importance on keeping the cooling system full at all times.

06-13-2022, 09:15 AM	#5
ETAModel Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Along the Red River, Texas Posts: 360	Re: How to pack the old style water pump I've been using standard grease gun grease. Maybe that's where I went wrong. TSC has 3% lithium grease, I'll get some and try it. Thanks.

06-13-2022, 09:38 AM	#6
old ugly Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: alberta canada Posts: 585	Re: How to pack the old style water pump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) the front zerk will use standard grease. the rear one closest to the head is suggested a water soluble grease incase it enters the cooling system. that grease will not stop the water leak it is only to lubricate the shaft and bushings. like said above back off the packing nut, wrap the shaft with packing material (regular grease on that rope will help). screw the nut back on, run the engine, you will probably have to back off the packing nut and wrap the shaft a few times to get sufficient packing material in there. maybe a few times. i would buy more than one packing, it seams to use lots. checking that packing nut is part of maintenance, tighten it if needed and add packing if need be. you don't need a leakless water pump. __________________ old ugly my old father-in-law told me. "listen close when people tell you how to do stuff they may know something. then do it the way you want."

06-13-2022, 02:04 PM	#7
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: How to pack the old style water pump Leakless water pumps work great till they leak. I have seen that happen a few times. There are leakless water pumps with a packing seal too. That way if the seal goes you can keep on going. That would be the smarter choice.

06-13-2022, 03:22 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: How to pack the old style water pump Originally Ford used a rope like spongy lead packing that was wrapped several turns in the packing nut but it was changed in a service bulletin to a formed C-ring of lead foil with a lubricant. The modern packing aren't an open C but a round closed lead and moly o-ring that fits the groove. They usually stack two of these together but they have to have the shaft out to use them closed. They can be carefully cut to a C and installed but,as was already mentioned the cuts have to be staggered 180 degrees from each other. Ford likely used a calcium soap type grease with a low melt point so bits of it won't clog the radiator tubes. I use Lubriplate 130-AA grease since it is a calcium soap grease with a low melt point. Calcium soap type greases are resistant to water wash so they are good for this type of pump. A person can use other type of grease but I would look for a grease with a melt point of 170 degrees F or less. Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-14-2022 at 06:28 PM.

06-14-2022, 09:51 AM	#9
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,043	Re: How to pack the old style water pump I was taught that when cutting packing to go around a shaft, to cut it on a 45° angle so that when compressed by the packing nut it seals better than a 90° cut. Your mileage may vary. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

06-14-2022, 10:18 AM	#10
Ruth Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Glide, Oregon Posts: 1,339	Re: How to pack the old style water pump The packing rings Snyder's offers is cut at 45° for you. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9269&cat=41793 __________________ Ruth "Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"

06-22-2022, 01:03 PM	#11
Perry Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Satsuma,AL Posts: 15	Re: How to pack the old style water pump where can I find a water soluble grease?

06-22-2022, 02:32 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: How to pack the old style water pump A grease with a low melt point would be sufficient. Most greases are a soap mixed with an oil. Some grease soaps may mix with water but oils don't. Oil always gravitates to the top in water since the oil is lighter.

06-22-2022, 04:34 PM	#14
ETAModel Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Along the Red River, Texas Posts: 360	Re: How to pack the old style water pump Follow up. I made 4 wraps of the material around the shaft, going clockwise. I then tightened the nut, filled the radiator and fired her up. The pump leaked at first but I tightened the nut until it stopped leaking. It's been driven about 60 miles and still no leaks. I'm thrilled.

06-23-2022, 09:52 AM	#15
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,043	Re: How to pack the old style water pump Best to tighten the packing nut while the engine is running, a little at a time until it stops leaking. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

06-23-2022, 10:14 AM	#16
Ruth Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Glide, Oregon Posts: 1,339	Re: How to pack the old style water pump It gets confusing, one vendor sells low temp grease, another sell high temp grease. Wouldn't low temp grease get "washed away" easily, resulting in no lubrication? __________________ Ruth "Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"