The Ford Barn

Ford56 · 10-16-2018, 06:27 PM

So, today, I just received my new to me '56 Victoria. All well and good, and pretty much as I expected it would be. However, when I checked the oil, there wasn't any on the dipstick. Now the previous owner told me he just had it changed, and it was full. The dipstick is a very shiny chrome one, one I've never seen before. I looked under the car and didn't see evidence of a leak; however, there is a small amount of oil on the frame cross member. Nothing on the valve covers, oil pan seals, rear of engine where the transmission join together. The bottom of the car looks pretty clean. I added a quart, still didn't show any oil, I added a second quart, still no joy. I then added a THIRD quart, and still no joy. I didn't have any more to add at that point, and that is where I am now. So, the question is, what is going on? Is the oil so new & clean that it doesn't show on this shiny chrome stick?? Have I now over filled the engine by 3 quarts. I'm thinking I'll just take it to a nearby shop, have them drain what amount is in there, and fill w/5 quarts, so I know what I've got. Plus, I can then check that shiny dipstick and know there are 5 quarts.

What does the all wise and knowing Ford Barn have to say??

miker98038 · 10-16-2018, 06:49 PM

I’m assuming it’s still a y block. And I don’t know where the dipstick is on a passenger car motor. In the bird it’s mid block, but isn’t the car up in the timing cover?

To my knowledge no one makes a chrome dipstick or tube for a y block. So it may be you’ve got the wrong one. Clean oil on chrome can be tough to see too. Someone with a car needs to verify the location and then measure the length of both the tube and the stick so you can verify what you’ve got. I suspect it’s wrong. Well, I hope it’s wrong and a fresh oil change isn’t down 3-4 quarts already.

Ford56 · 10-16-2018, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miker98038

I’m assuming it’s still a y block. And I don’t know where the dipstick is on a passenger car motor. In the bird it’s mid block, but isn’t the car up in the timing cover?

To my knowledge no one makes a chrome dipstick or tube for a y block. So it may be you’ve got the wrong one. Clean oil on chrome can be tough to see too. Someone with a car needs to verify the location and then measure the length of both the tube and the stick so you can verify what you’ve got. I suspect it’s wrong. Well, I hope it’s wrong and a fresh oil change isn’t down 3-4 quarts already.

Yeah, I realized after I posted I should have mentioned it is a 302, from a 1972 Grand Turino.

miker98038 · 10-16-2018, 07:00 PM

I’d still try to find a longer dipstick, and just put it in and see if you can see oil. Ideally, something long enough to bottom out in the pan. I suspect there are different pan/stick combinations for the 302 also.

Herman Munster · 10-16-2018, 08:42 PM

I'd suggest draining the engine into a clean container that you can measure to see how much oil is in it. You may be surprised to find you have 8 quarts of oil in it.

40cpe · 10-16-2018, 09:19 PM

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a simple wipe of the stick with your finger will tell you if it has oil on it. With clean oil you can hold it in the light at different angles to see where the oil line is.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I'd suggest draining the engine into a clean container that you can measure to see how much oil is in it. You may be surprised to find you have 8 quarts of oil in it.

This is exactly what I was thinking of doing today. I'll let you know what I find.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40cpe

a simple wipe of the stick with your finger will tell you if it has oil on it. With clean oil you can hold it in the light at different angles to see where the oil line is.

Yup, I have done the holding it at different angles to see where the oil line is, and still get no joy. I'm still thinking there is enough oil, as the previous owner is adamant that it was full when he shipped it to me. He's been pretty honest about everything else about the car, both the good and the bad, so I tend to believe him. I just can't figure this one out. I'm hoping there is some trick I don't see to ensure the stick is pushed all the way in. I'll let you know, but, I'm concerned that now I've got 3 extra quarts in there. I'll drain the entire system and see how much is there.

54vicky · 10-17-2018, 09:50 AM

what does the old owner say.surely he must of had a way of checking it.

Daves55Sedan · 10-17-2018, 11:44 AM

In 55/56, there were three different engine oil dipsticks among the engine offered. Ford full sized cars, the Y-blocks had the dipstick tube located in the front on the passenger side of the engine. The Thunderbird Y-blocks had the dipstick tube on the side of the engine near the middle of the block. The 223 I-block 6cyl engines had a very short dipstick tube on the driver side of the engine.
Could it be that someone mixed up their dipsticks and accidentally put a 6-cyl dipstick in your Y-block. If so, it will never register any oil on it.
Maybe it's a dipstick from a different car altogether.
Take photos of the very top and bottom of the dipstick and measure the length of the dipstick. Post that all on here and we can certainly tell you if it is the right dipstick.

OOOOPs, never mind. I didn't know someone swapped the engine with a 302.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

In 55/56, there were three different engine oil dipsticks among the engine offered. Ford full sized cars, the Y-blocks had the dipstick tube located in the front on the passenger side of the engine. The Thunderbird Y-blocks had the dipstick tube on the side of the engine near the middle of the block. The 223 I-block 6cyl engines had a very short dipstick tube on the driver side of the engine.
Could it be that someone mixed up their dipsticks and accidentally put a 6-cyl dipstick in your Y-block. If so, it will never register any oil on it.
Maybe it's a dipstick from a different car altogether.
Take photos of the very top and bottom of the dipstick and measure the length of the dipstick. Post that all on here and we can certainly tell you if it is the right dipstick.

OOOOPs, never mind. I didn't know someone swapped the engine with a 302.

Good suggestions all; but, I'm heading over to the neighborhood service shop to get it all drained out, and see how much is there. I suspect the dipstick is not reaching all the way down, or the oil is super clean and the shiny dipstick doesn't reflect it. Stay tuned

Daves55Sedan · 10-17-2018, 12:05 PM

I strongly suggest not driving it anywhere regardless of whether the crankcase has 3 quarts of oil or way overfilled with 8 quarts.
Just drain the oil pan into a large container, then dump one quart at a time into a 1 qt measuring cup. Count the number of quarts that you have.
Don't refill the crankcase with more than 5 quarts initially. Start and run the engine for one minute then shut-off. Add one quart for the oil filter (but you need to check that with the dipstick which is questionable at this time).

Daves55Sedan · 10-17-2018, 12:15 PM

Okay, this is kindof MacGyverish, but you could easily make your own dipstick.
Fill the 302 with the proper amount of oil including the filter.
Grab a scrap length of 12 gage copper wire. Strip the insulation off of it. Stick the wire all the way down the dipstick tube till it hits the bottom of the oil pan. Cut the wire off about 2 inches above the top of the dipstick tube, slide a small fender washer down into the wire till it rests on top of the dipstick tube. Temporarily tape the washer on the wire with strips of duct tape. Coil the wire around at the top so it is easy to pull the wire out with your finger. Immediately identify the oil level on the wire and mark that spot with a file. The washer can be permanently attached if you wish by brazing it onto the wire or by using spring loaded wire clips above and below it.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Okay, this is kindof MacGyverish, but you could easily make your own dipstick.
Fill the 302 with the proper amount of oil including the filter.
Grab a scrap length of 12 gage copper wire. Strip the insulation off of it. Stick the wire all the way down the dipstick tube till it hits the bottom of the oil pan. Cut the wire off about 2 inches above the top of the dipstick tube, slide a small fender washer down into the wire till it rests on top of the dipstick tube. Temporarily tape the washer on the wire with strips of duct tape. Coil the wire around at the top so it is easy to pull the wire out with your finger. Immediately identify the oil level on the wire and mark that spot with a file. The washer can be permanently attached if you wish by brazing it onto the wire or by using spring loaded wire clips above and below it.

Anything involving duct tape is something I usually like

Your suggestion should work, and I might just do it or something like it.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 02:45 PM

Okay, so here is the status.... I took it to the neighborhood service shop, 10 blocks away, and told them to drain the oil. It sure looked clean, and looked like 8 quarts. Had them fill it back up w/5 quarts. Left the oil filter alone, since it was just changed 20 miles ago. We then tried to look at the dipstick, there was the very slightest sheen on it, nothing that I've ever seen before, and the mechanic couldn't see it either, other than we both know it has 5 quarts. There isn't any evidence of leaking on the bottom of the oil pan, valve gaskets, underside of the car, except for a very small, tiny really, leak by the rear main seal, nothing to worry about at all.
When I got it home, I tried the dipstick again in the garage, again no joy. Took it out side in the bright sunlight, still can't really see any level marker.
I asked the Consignment Dealer where I got the car from to ask the previous owner if he replaced the dipstick. I think that is what is going on, and the new one, all chromed up, somehow doesn't quite touch the bottom?
Anyway, for now, I'm going to monitor the underside of the car for any new leakage, and keep watching the oil pressure gauge. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Keep 'em coming.

50fordcoupeman · 10-17-2018, 02:53 PM

Hi '56.........my avatar has a '77 302 in it. My dipstick is 31" long (no laughing guys) and it is 2 and 3/8" from the bottom of the stick to the full mark. The dipstick tube is 19 and 1/2" long as close as I can measure it. I run 6 qts. with filter change to bring it to the full mark. Hope this helps!

Anteek29 · 10-17-2018, 03:35 PM

Are you a club member? Find another similar Ford and compare dipsticks?

KULTULZ · 10-17-2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

...my dipstick is 31" long (no laughing guys).

... ... !!! Strut man ... Strut !!!

KULTULZ · 10-17-2018, 04:27 PM

If you know what the engine came out of (year - model), you can find the PN in the MPC. Usually the catalog will also give you the engineering part number and that will allow you to walk a yard and possibly find the correct stick and tube.

50fordcoupeman · 10-17-2018, 04:36 PM

Kul............thanks!! My dipstick has numbers on it which I assume would be the PN. Would that be of help to him?

KULTULZ · 10-17-2018, 04:53 PM

The number is an ENGINEERING PN and will give the correct SERVICE PN via cataloging to where he can find either a NOS or correct take-off. As long as both 302's are of the same vintage and nothing drastic has been done (say different oil pan), then yes that would help. But you still would want to confirm reading with a fresh service just to make sure.

Why the builder did not use the FORD dipstick is the question.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

If you know what the engine came out of (year - model), you can find the PN in the MPC. Usually the catalog will also give you the engineering part number and that will allow you to walk a yard and possibly find the correct stick and tube.

The 302 came from a 1972 Grand Turino. The previous owner chromed up the alternator and a few other small items, so, I'm assuming he liked a chrome dipstick too.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteek29

Are you a club member? Find another similar Ford and compare dipsticks?

There is a guy who has another '56 that I occasionally see at Cars & Coffee. I'll ask him to show me his next time I see him.

KULTULZ · 10-17-2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford56

The 302 came from a 1972 Grand Turino. The previous owner chromed up the alternator and a few other small items, so, I'm assuming he liked a chrome dipstick too.

So the 302 is front sump?

I don't have the 65/72 MPC any longer ...

... but that is how you would find the correct stick/tube or just happen on the same install (say 72-74) in a junkyard.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

Hi '56.........my avatar has a '77 302 in it. My dipstick is 31" long (no laughing guys) and it is 2 and 3/8" from the bottom of the stick to the full mark. The dipstick tube is 19 and 1/2" long as close as I can measure it. I run 6 qts. with filter change to bring it to the full mark. Hope this helps!

Your engine is close to mine, a 1972 Grand Turino. Tomorrow I'll measure what I've got and compare to yours. But, I'm pretty sure I've got a replacement, chromed one; although, from what I remember, it did say either Ford, or FMOCO, on it. I'll have to look again tomorrow. Thanks for the measurements.

dmsfrr · 10-17-2018, 05:45 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

. . . Why the builder did not use the FORD dipstick is the question.

They may not have had the original, been in a hurry and used whatever was handy.

The dipstick tube I found on my y-block was cut down from something else and 'almost' fit.
The dipstick itself was from something a few decades newer. It didn't read right either...

KULTULZ · 10-17-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

They may have been in a hurry and used whatever was handy.

No, it is called eye candy and disregarding proper assembly/repair.

Ford56 · 10-17-2018, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

No, it is called eye candy and disregarding proper assembly/repair.

Yup, I definitely see some 'eye candy' on the car that the previous owner seemed to like as personal preference, but, I wouldn't have gone that way. Oh well, I'll probably just keep it like this...... too much trouble to switch stuff around, especially since it doesn't bother me at all.

Ford56 · 10-18-2018, 04:07 PM

Took it out today for about 21 miles. The oil pressure, when I remembered to look, seemed fine. There was no oil spots on the cardboard I've got under the engine from overnight. I'll get a replacement dipstick somewhere, one of these days. In the meantime, I know there are 5 quarts in there, so, I'm going not obsess over it. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the answers and suggestions.

Ford56 · 10-19-2018, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

Hi '56.........my avatar has a '77 302 in it. My dipstick is 31" long (no laughing guys) and it is 2 and 3/8" from the bottom of the stick to the full mark. The dipstick tube is 19 and 1/2" long as close as I can measure it. I run 6 qts. with filter change to bring it to the full mark. Hope this helps!

Was able to measure my dipstick, etc. and my measurements are way different than for your '72 302:
Dipstick is 20 and 1/2 inches long; yours is 31
1 & 7/8ths inches from bottom to full mark;and 2 1/4 to max; yours is 2 and 3/8
Tube is 11 inches; yours is 19 1/2 inches.
So, there you have it. This shiny chrome dipstick says "Use only SE or SF Engine oil Check oil this side up Ford Motorsport"

When I place the dipstick right next to the tube, on the outside, it seems to go all the way to the bottom of the pan, so, I just don't get it. Why doesn't is show oil on the dipstick?

Something is wrong, but, I don't know what it is.

Herman Munster · 10-19-2018, 01:52 PM

Try using a clean piece of rigid wire that's long enough to reach the bottom of the pan then compare it to your dipstick.

50fordcoupeman · 10-19-2018, 03:38 PM

Agree with Herman. Run something down there until you are sure it hits bottom and then compare to your chrome stick and to my measurements. You can use a different dipstick from your other vehicles too. I am thinking the tube and dipstick are the totally wrong set up. Good luck.

50fordcoupeman · 10-19-2018, 04:30 PM

56........... my dipstick has the following markings on it: Ford script followed by
E5TE-6750-CA M. Maybe dmsfrr or KULTULZ can help decipher what these mean and provide a clue for your mystery stick. See posts 21 and 24.

Ford56 · 10-19-2018, 04:31 PM

I'll give that a try (inserting a rigid wire) and compare it to the dipstick. At least I'll have an oil line on the wire, right? That'll give me an idea of where on the shiny chrome dipstick to look. Stay tuned. Will update tomorrow.

dmsfrr · 10-19-2018, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

56........... my dipstick has the following markings on it: Ford script followed by
E5TE-6750-CA M. Maybe dmsfrr or KULTULZ can help decipher what these mean and provide a clue for your mystery stick. ...

Here's a start on it...
"E5TE"
E = 1980's
5 = fifth year = 1985
T = Truck
E = Engine part

From this link...
http://www.fordification.com/tech/pa...s_overview.htm

50fordcoupeman · 10-19-2018, 07:04 PM

Wow dmsfrr!! Thanks but now I have a mystery also. The number behind my starter indicates the engine is a 1977. Maybe all this shows is I have a variety of parts on this but all I really know is how well it has run since I have had it. Ha ha!!

CrownVic55 · 10-19-2018, 08:48 PM

Doing the math on your dimensions and 50Ford it looks like his dipstick is 1 1/2 inches further into the oil pan than yours. That could be why you don't show any oil on the stick.
Ben

dmsfrr · 10-20-2018, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

. . . Maybe all this shows is I have a variety of parts on this . . .

I'd think this is very normal on a resto-mod.
When taking significant parts of a driveline and putting them into a vehicle they were never designed to fit in there's going to be a lot of 'What can I use to make this work?'. Using different brackets, optional parts from other years, aftermarket pieces, etc. etc. so it all fits under the hood and looks good, to the satisfaction of the builder is just part of the process.

Almost an example:
My '55 retirement project is fairly close to original, Y-block powered not a resto-mod, but it's had misc. oem engine parts from at least three different models and five different years, from 2 different decades, under the hood.
.

KULTULZ · 10-20-2018, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

56........... my dipstick has the following markings on it: Ford script followed by E5TE-6750-CA M.

Maybe dmsfrr or KULTULZ can help decipher what these mean and provide a clue for your mystery stick. See posts 21 and 24.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Here's a start on it...

"E5TE"

E = 1980's
5 = fifth year = 1985
T = Truck
E = Engine part

From this link...

http://www.fordification.com/tech/pa...s_overview.htm

Correct. This is the number you would be looking for in a junk yard or possibly EvilBay if correct for the application. The trouble is how many period(s) 302/5.0L engines did he source from?

Quote:

This shiny chrome dipstick says "Use only SE or SF Engine oil Check oil this side up 'Ford Motorsport' "

This is a dress-up accessory from FORD. It sounds like the guy picked the wrong part.

50fordcoupeman · 10-20-2018, 02:05 AM

KULTULZ and dmsfrr..........thank you both for the info!! Hope this didnt sidetrack 56's request for help-I did not mean for it to hijack his thread.

56........guess this really means are there a dump truck load of interchangeable 302 parts and we both seem to have some. Good luck as I am sure you will figure this out!!!

KULTULZ · 10-20-2018, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

KULTULZ and dmsfrr..........thank you both for the info!! Hope this didnt sidetrack 56's request for help-I did not mean for it to hijack his thread.

56........guess this really means are there a dump truck load of interchangeable 302 parts and we both seem to have some. Good luck as I am sure you will figure this out!!!

No Problem!

How else to learn.

The SBF has more production history and interchange than the FYB and you see how confusing just that engine can be.

Seeing as how the builder gave no build information, the OP is going to have to go through a lot of ID to realize just what he has.

dmsfrr · 10-20-2018, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford56

. . . when I checked the oil, there wasn't any on the dipstick. ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

. . .
56........guess this really means are there a dump truck load of interchangeable 302 parts and we both seem to have some. ...

I haven't had a 302 since the early 80's and I've never swapped one into a 50's Ford, so bear with me a moment...
Might the original oil pan on the 302 have been changed, rear sump to front sump? If so, the dipstick location would need to change as well. Was an oem or aftermarket oil pan used? Would the 'new' dipstick location be in the timing cover? How many types of these timing covers are there? Are they 100% compatible with the 'new' oil pan?

Given these assumed variables here's the actual question . . .

What are the chances the bottom end of the dipstick is being deflected by something and not even going down into the oil?

.

Ford56 · 10-20-2018, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50fordcoupeman

Agree with Herman. Run something down there until you are sure it hits bottom and then compare to your chrome stick and to my measurements. You can use a different dipstick from your other vehicles too. I am thinking the tube and dipstick are the totally wrong set up. Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

Try using a clean piece of rigid wire that's long enough to reach the bottom of the pan then compare it to your dipstick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

I haven't had a 302 since the early 80's and I've never swapped one into a 50's Ford, so bear with me here...
Might the original oil pan on 302 have been changed, rear sump to front sump? If so, the dipstick location would need to change as well. Was an oem or aftermarket oil pan used? Would the 'new' dipstick location be in the timing cover? How many types of these timing covers are there? Are they 100% compatible with the 'new' oil pan?

Given these assumed variables here's the actual question...

What are the chances the bottom end of the dipstick is being deflected by something and not even going down into the oil?

.

I'm wondering if that is the issue here. When I get some time in the next couple of days, I'll run a white coat hanger wire down in there, and see where it marks the wire, and compare it to the shiny chrome replacement stick.

40 Deluxe · 10-20-2018, 02:21 PM

No need to re-invent the wheel here! First, throw that chrome stick away and just go to a Pick-A-Part yard and get a couple original dipsticks from 302 Ford cars. Plug one in and mark the full line. Done!

50fordcoupeman · 10-20-2018, 02:23 PM

Didnt even know there a dipstick version going through the timing cover. Could well be 56's issue. I have a rear sump pan and my dipstick tube goes down to the pan right under #7 spark plug.

56.........front or rear sump pan? Could be your answer. :-)

estout81 · 10-20-2018, 04:23 PM

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Ford 56,
If the engine has a front sump oil pan the dipstick should be in the timing chain cover. If the dipstick is on the side of the engine, toward the back, you will never see oil on the stick with a front sump pan. A '56 requires a front sump.

5851a · 10-20-2018, 05:10 PM

Dipstick tube is press fit into timing cover. The timing covers can corrode around the water passages and most likely had cover swapped for a good one. Ford had many, many different timing covers on smallblocks. Front sump, mid sump rear sump. Dipsticks were in front cover, side of pan, or through the block. Best to look or have someone look in the Ford parts book or get one (makes excellent reading). Find out what oil pan you have and then look for dipstick tube and dipstick that matches pan. My version of 1972 parts book with reprint date May 1975 says. Pan is D0OZ-6675-C. Dipstick is D0AZ-6750-C 18.59" top of shield to Safe. 19.26" top of shield to Add. 20.86" top of shield to end. Dipstick tube D2OZ-6754-A Approx 12 1/4 long. Hope that helps.

KULTULZ · 10-20-2018, 07:33 PM

Quote:

D0AZ-6750-C

Is the ENGINEERING PN shown in the text?

Ford56 · 10-20-2018, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

No need to re-invent the wheel here! First, throw that chrome stick away and just go to a Pick-A-Part yard and get a couple original dipsticks from 302 Ford cars. Plug one in and mark the full line. Done!

You may be on to something. I don't have the car handy tonight, but I'll take a look at it tomorrow. I don't remember if the tube goes through the timing cover, as some have mentioned; but, where I do remember it being positioned is in the front of the valve cover on the passenger side.

40 Deluxe · 10-20-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford56

but, where I do remember it being positioned is in the front of the valve cover on the passenger side.

That means the dipstick tube is in the timing cover. Which means the sump(the deepest part of the pan) is at the front of the engine. Forgot to mention to get a couple different length sticks. If one is too short and doesn't reach the oil, use a longer one and cut as needed.

Anteek29 · 10-20-2018, 09:20 PM

I took measurements on my '55 Vic with the 272 engine. The dipstick is located near the front of the valve cover on the passenger side and goes into the block.
Total length of the dipstick is 26", tube length is 15-1/2". Front sump.
No P/Nos appear on the dipstick.

dmsfrr · 10-20-2018, 10:09 PM

Anteek29 - I thought of that too, but the car has a newer engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford56

So, today, I just received my new to me '56 Victoria. ... However, when I checked the oil, there wasn't any on the dipstick. Now the previous owner told me he just had it changed, and it was full. ...

... Yeah, I realized after I posted I should have mentioned it is a 302, from a 1972 Grand Turino. ...

Motorhead6 · 10-21-2018, 01:49 AM

Put some Marvel Mystery Oil in it; should give the oil a red tint. If you put 5 qts in without changing the filter, it may be a qt too much. Yes, the '70 302 in a Mustang dip stick is on the front and there is an after market chrome dipstick and tube available.

Ford56 · 10-21-2018, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorhead6

Put some Marvel Mystery Oil in it; should give the oil a red tint. If you put 5 qts in without changing the filter, it may be a qt too much. Yes, the '70 302 in a Mustang dip stick is on the front and there is an after market chrome dipstick and tube available.

I like the idea of a red tint. As I've said, however, today, I'll get a white wire hanger down in there and see what that shows. I'll let y'all know. Thanks for all the great ideas.

5851a · 10-21-2018, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Is the ENGINEERING PN shown in the text?

I will check Sunday when I'm back in the attic.

KULTULZ · 10-21-2018, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5851a

I will check Sunday when I'm back in the attic.

Appreciate It. No big deal, just wondering.

What do you do in the attic, HANG OUT?

5851a · 10-21-2018, 09:10 AM

Went and looked and found no number, might be something to do with being a reprint from 1975. Oh and the attic, I try not to think about it. Been in the house 40 years. There was a listing for a chrome Boss 302 dipstick and it is about 1 1/2 inches shorter than plain 302. But that wouldn't have been sold by motorsport. Factory Ford dipsticks that are chromed the dipstick is not plated, only the handle.

KULTULZ · 10-21-2018, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5851a

Factory Ford dipsticks that are chromed the dipstick is not plated, only the handle.

Don't forget FORD MOTORSPORTS (sounds like what this one is).

Ford Performance Parts M-6750-C303

'MADE IN TAIWAN'

Ford56 · 10-21-2018, 12:32 PM

Okay guys, I'm going to declare victory, and withdraw w/honor.

So, I tried the white wire coat hanger approach, which did allow me to verify that the shiny chrome one is going to the bottom of the oil pan. I didn't see any oil mark on the wire, however. But, taking yet another approach on the shiny chrome stick, and taking it out into the bright sunshine, and turning it over, and using super strong squinting, I believe I can see the faintest trace of a oil line on the stick. I mean, I really have to use my imagination, but, in so doing, I believe I can see something that could possibly be an oil line. I think........
Anyway, another contributing factor is that the oil is so clean, it doesn't leave a good dark colored line, like I'm used to seeing for the past 60 or so years. I'll just have to drive it and get the new oil circulating and get slightly discolored.

And now you know, that's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

40cpe · 10-21-2018, 01:45 PM

Wipe down the stick with your thumb and fore finger. That will tell you if there is oil on the stick

dmsfrr · 10-21-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40cpe

Wipe down the stick with your thumb and fore finger. That will tell you if there is oil on the stick

Or a clean tissue / paper towel.

Ford56 · 10-21-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Or a clean tissue / paper towel.

Yup, I do both, at different times, and yup there is a sheen of oil that I feel, but don't really see in a well defined way, and certainly not at the full line or slightly below. In actuality there is a sheen of oil higher than just the full line, but it doesn't cover across the width of the stick, which is pretty normal in other sticks I've wiped over the years.
So, to recap, yes I wipe down the stick after withdrawing it the first time, reinsert it, ensure its all the way in to the maximum of the stick including the little rubber grommet area at the tip top, withdraw it, and eye-ball the oil line to see whether it is at 'safe' or below, or at 'full', or above. There is a clear indication of oil at the very bottom tip covering about a quarter to a half inch on the stick, and then a very slight sheen above, up to, and about at, the 'full' line or 'safe' (I don't remember which, but, you get the idea).

From this point on, I'll just drive it, and watch the oil gauge to ensure steady pressure. I'll check the oil after I get some more miles on it, and we'll see what it looks like then.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

40 Deluxe · 10-21-2018, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40cpe

Wipe down the stick with your thumb and fore finger. That will tell you if there is oil on the stick

That's too easy! We like to complicate things!

bobss396 · 10-22-2018, 10:18 AM

Shoot some flat black paint on it, let it dry and stick it. It should show up.

Ford56 · 10-22-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobss396

Shoot some flat black paint on it, let it dry and stick it. It should show up.

Not a bad idea; white paint should work even better.

40cpe · 10-22-2018, 05:37 PM

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I would be concerned about the paint releasing from the stick and peeling off in a sheet. I had a car once that had small holes drilled in the stick at full, add, and in between. The oil would span the hole and be visible.

dmsfrr · 10-22-2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobss396

Shoot some flat black paint on it, let it dry and stick it. It should show up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford56

Not a bad idea; white paint should work even better.

I suspect the purpose of using flat black is that with any oil on it, the 'flat' will appear to be 'gloss' instead and very easy to notice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40cpe

I would be concerned about the paint releasing from the stick and peeling off in a sheet.

Some solvent or paint remover...
A good cleaning after checking the oil would take care of the dipstick.
.

10-16-2018, 06:27 PM	#1
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	An oil dipstick dilemma So, today, I just received my new to me '56 Victoria. All well and good, and pretty much as I expected it would be. However, when I checked the oil, there wasn't any on the dipstick. Now the previous owner told me he just had it changed, and it was full. The dipstick is a very shiny chrome one, one I've never seen before. I looked under the car and didn't see evidence of a leak; however, there is a small amount of oil on the frame cross member. Nothing on the valve covers, oil pan seals, rear of engine where the transmission join together. The bottom of the car looks pretty clean. I added a quart, still didn't show any oil, I added a second quart, still no joy. I then added a THIRD quart, and still no joy. I didn't have any more to add at that point, and that is where I am now. So, the question is, what is going on? Is the oil so new & clean that it doesn't show on this shiny chrome stick?? Have I now over filled the engine by 3 quarts. I'm thinking I'll just take it to a nearby shop, have them drain what amount is in there, and fill w/5 quarts, so I know what I've got. Plus, I can then check that shiny dipstick and know there are 5 quarts. What does the all wise and knowing Ford Barn have to say??

10-16-2018, 06:49 PM	#2
miker98038 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kent, WA. Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,398	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma I’m assuming it’s still a y block. And I don’t know where the dipstick is on a passenger car motor. In the bird it’s mid block, but isn’t the car up in the timing cover? To my knowledge no one makes a chrome dipstick or tube for a y block. So it may be you’ve got the wrong one. Clean oil on chrome can be tough to see too. Someone with a car needs to verify the location and then measure the length of both the tube and the stick so you can verify what you’ve got. I suspect it’s wrong. Well, I hope it’s wrong and a fresh oil change isn’t down 3-4 quarts already.

10-16-2018, 07:00 PM	#4
miker98038 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kent, WA. Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,398	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma I’d still try to find a longer dipstick, and just put it in and see if you can see oil. Ideally, something long enough to bottom out in the pan. I suspect there are different pan/stick combinations for the 302 also.

10-16-2018, 08:42 PM	#5
Herman Munster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: SW WA state. Posts: 564	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma I'd suggest draining the engine into a clean container that you can measure to see how much oil is in it. You may be surprised to find you have 8 quarts of oil in it. __________________ 1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic

10-16-2018, 09:19 PM	#6
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) a simple wipe of the stick with your finger will tell you if it has oil on it. With clean oil you can hold it in the light at different angles to see where the oil line is.

10-17-2018, 09:50 AM	#9
54vicky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Oakville Ontario Posts: 586	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma what does the old owner say.surely he must of had a way of checking it.

10-17-2018, 11:44 AM	#10
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma In 55/56, there were three different engine oil dipsticks among the engine offered. Ford full sized cars, the Y-blocks had the dipstick tube located in the front on the passenger side of the engine. The Thunderbird Y-blocks had the dipstick tube on the side of the engine near the middle of the block. The 223 I-block 6cyl engines had a very short dipstick tube on the driver side of the engine. Could it be that someone mixed up their dipsticks and accidentally put a 6-cyl dipstick in your Y-block. If so, it will never register any oil on it. Maybe it's a dipstick from a different car altogether. Take photos of the very top and bottom of the dipstick and measure the length of the dipstick. Post that all on here and we can certainly tell you if it is the right dipstick. OOOOPs, never mind. I didn't know someone swapped the engine with a 302.

10-17-2018, 12:05 PM	#12
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma I strongly suggest not driving it anywhere regardless of whether the crankcase has 3 quarts of oil or way overfilled with 8 quarts. Just drain the oil pan into a large container, then dump one quart at a time into a 1 qt measuring cup. Count the number of quarts that you have. Don't refill the crankcase with more than 5 quarts initially. Start and run the engine for one minute then shut-off. Add one quart for the oil filter (but you need to check that with the dipstick which is questionable at this time).

10-17-2018, 12:15 PM	#13
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Okay, this is kindof MacGyverish, but you could easily make your own dipstick. Fill the 302 with the proper amount of oil including the filter. Grab a scrap length of 12 gage copper wire. Strip the insulation off of it. Stick the wire all the way down the dipstick tube till it hits the bottom of the oil pan. Cut the wire off about 2 inches above the top of the dipstick tube, slide a small fender washer down into the wire till it rests on top of the dipstick tube. Temporarily tape the washer on the wire with strips of duct tape. Coil the wire around at the top so it is easy to pull the wire out with your finger. Immediately identify the oil level on the wire and mark that spot with a file. The washer can be permanently attached if you wish by brazing it onto the wire or by using spring loaded wire clips above and below it.

10-17-2018, 02:45 PM	#15
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Okay, so here is the status.... I took it to the neighborhood service shop, 10 blocks away, and told them to drain the oil. It sure looked clean, and looked like 8 quarts. Had them fill it back up w/5 quarts. Left the oil filter alone, since it was just changed 20 miles ago. We then tried to look at the dipstick, there was the very slightest sheen on it, nothing that I've ever seen before, and the mechanic couldn't see it either, other than we both know it has 5 quarts. There isn't any evidence of leaking on the bottom of the oil pan, valve gaskets, underside of the car, except for a very small, tiny really, leak by the rear main seal, nothing to worry about at all. When I got it home, I tried the dipstick again in the garage, again no joy. Took it out side in the bright sunlight, still can't really see any level marker. I asked the Consignment Dealer where I got the car from to ask the previous owner if he replaced the dipstick. I think that is what is going on, and the new one, all chromed up, somehow doesn't quite touch the bottom? Anyway, for now, I'm going to monitor the underside of the car for any new leakage, and keep watching the oil pressure gauge. Thanks for all the suggestions. Keep 'em coming.

10-17-2018, 02:53 PM	#16
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Hi '56.........my avatar has a '77 302 in it. My dipstick is 31" long (no laughing guys) and it is 2 and 3/8" from the bottom of the stick to the full mark. The dipstick tube is 19 and 1/2" long as close as I can measure it. I run 6 qts. with filter change to bring it to the full mark. Hope this helps!

10-17-2018, 03:35 PM	#17
Anteek29 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Santa Maria, CA Posts: 985	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Are you a club member? Find another similar Ford and compare dipsticks? __________________ Alan 1929 Special Coupe 1941 Pick-Up 1955 Victoria

10-17-2018, 04:27 PM	#19
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,475	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma If you know what the engine came out of (year - model), you can find the PN in the MPC. Usually the catalog will also give you the engineering part number and that will allow you to walk a yard and possibly find the correct stick and tube. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

10-17-2018, 04:36 PM	#20
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Kul............thanks!! My dipstick has numbers on it which I assume would be the PN. Would that be of help to him?

10-17-2018, 04:53 PM	#21
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,475	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma The number is an ENGINEERING PN and will give the correct SERVICE PN via cataloging to where he can find either a NOS or correct take-off. As long as both 302's are of the same vintage and nothing drastic has been done (say different oil pan), then yes that would help. But you still would want to confirm reading with a fresh service just to make sure. Why the builder did not use the FORD dipstick is the question. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

10-18-2018, 04:07 PM	#29
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Took it out today for about 21 miles. The oil pressure, when I remembered to look, seemed fine. There was no oil spots on the cardboard I've got under the engine from overnight. I'll get a replacement dipstick somewhere, one of these days. In the meantime, I know there are 5 quarts in there, so, I'm going not obsess over it. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the answers and suggestions.

10-19-2018, 01:52 PM	#31
Herman Munster Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: SW WA state. Posts: 564	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Try using a clean piece of rigid wire that's long enough to reach the bottom of the pan then compare it to your dipstick. __________________ 1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic

10-19-2018, 03:38 PM	#32
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Agree with Herman. Run something down there until you are sure it hits bottom and then compare to your chrome stick and to my measurements. You can use a different dipstick from your other vehicles too. I am thinking the tube and dipstick are the totally wrong set up. Good luck.

10-19-2018, 04:30 PM	#33
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma 56........... my dipstick has the following markings on it: Ford script followed by E5TE-6750-CA M. Maybe dmsfrr or KULTULZ can help decipher what these mean and provide a clue for your mystery stick. See posts 21 and 24.

10-19-2018, 04:31 PM	#34
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma I'll give that a try (inserting a rigid wire) and compare it to the dipstick. At least I'll have an oil line on the wire, right? That'll give me an idea of where on the shiny chrome dipstick to look. Stay tuned. Will update tomorrow.

10-19-2018, 07:04 PM	#36
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Wow dmsfrr!! Thanks but now I have a mystery also. The number behind my starter indicates the engine is a 1977. Maybe all this shows is I have a variety of parts on this but all I really know is how well it has run since I have had it. Ha ha!!

10-19-2018, 08:48 PM	#37
CrownVic55 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Collinsville, OK Posts: 171	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Doing the math on your dimensions and 50Ford it looks like his dipstick is 1 1/2 inches further into the oil pan than yours. That could be why you don't show any oil on the stick. Ben

10-20-2018, 02:05 AM	#40
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma KULTULZ and dmsfrr..........thank you both for the info!! Hope this didnt sidetrack 56's request for help-I did not mean for it to hijack his thread. 56........guess this really means are there a dump truck load of interchangeable 302 parts and we both seem to have some. Good luck as I am sure you will figure this out!!!

10-20-2018, 02:21 PM	#44
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,779	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma No need to re-invent the wheel here! First, throw that chrome stick away and just go to a Pick-A-Part yard and get a couple original dipsticks from 302 Ford cars. Plug one in and mark the full line. Done!

10-20-2018, 02:23 PM	#45
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 866	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Didnt even know there a dipstick version going through the timing cover. Could well be 56's issue. I have a rear sump pan and my dipstick tube goes down to the pan right under #7 spark plug. 56.........front or rear sump pan? Could be your answer. :-)

10-20-2018, 04:23 PM	#46
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Ford 56, If the engine has a front sump oil pan the dipstick should be in the timing chain cover. If the dipstick is on the side of the engine, toward the back, you will never see oil on the stick with a front sump pan. A '56 requires a front sump.

10-20-2018, 05:10 PM	#47
5851a Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 1,664	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Dipstick tube is press fit into timing cover. The timing covers can corrode around the water passages and most likely had cover swapped for a good one. Ford had many, many different timing covers on smallblocks. Front sump, mid sump rear sump. Dipsticks were in front cover, side of pan, or through the block. Best to look or have someone look in the Ford parts book or get one (makes excellent reading). Find out what oil pan you have and then look for dipstick tube and dipstick that matches pan. My version of 1972 parts book with reprint date May 1975 says. Pan is D0OZ-6675-C. Dipstick is D0AZ-6750-C 18.59" top of shield to Safe. 19.26" top of shield to Add. 20.86" top of shield to end. Dipstick tube D2OZ-6754-A Approx 12 1/4 long. Hope that helps.

10-20-2018, 09:20 PM	#51
Anteek29 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Santa Maria, CA Posts: 985	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma I took measurements on my '55 Vic with the 272 engine. The dipstick is located near the front of the valve cover on the passenger side and goes into the block. Total length of the dipstick is 26", tube length is 15-1/2". Front sump. No P/Nos appear on the dipstick. __________________ Alan 1929 Special Coupe 1941 Pick-Up 1955 Victoria

10-21-2018, 01:49 AM	#53
Motorhead6 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Orange Park, Fl Posts: 406	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Put some Marvel Mystery Oil in it; should give the oil a red tint. If you put 5 qts in without changing the filter, it may be a qt too much. Yes, the '70 302 in a Mustang dip stick is on the front and there is an after market chrome dipstick and tube available.

10-21-2018, 09:10 AM	#57
5851a Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 1,664	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Went and looked and found no number, might be something to do with being a reprint from 1975. Oh and the attic, I try not to think about it. Been in the house 40 years. There was a listing for a chrome Boss 302 dipstick and it is about 1 1/2 inches shorter than plain 302. But that wouldn't have been sold by motorsport. Factory Ford dipsticks that are chromed the dipstick is not plated, only the handle. Last edited by 5851a; 10-21-2018 at 09:15 AM.

10-21-2018, 12:32 PM	#59
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Okay guys, I'm going to declare victory, and withdraw w/honor. So, I tried the white wire coat hanger approach, which did allow me to verify that the shiny chrome one is going to the bottom of the oil pan. I didn't see any oil mark on the wire, however. But, taking yet another approach on the shiny chrome stick, and taking it out into the bright sunshine, and turning it over, and using super strong squinting, I believe I can see the faintest trace of a oil line on the stick. I mean, I really have to use my imagination, but, in so doing, I believe I can see something that could possibly be an oil line. I think........ Anyway, another contributing factor is that the oil is so clean, it doesn't leave a good dark colored line, like I'm used to seeing for the past 60 or so years. I'll just have to drive it and get the new oil circulating and get slightly discolored. And now you know, that's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

10-21-2018, 01:45 PM	#60
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Wipe down the stick with your thumb and fore finger. That will tell you if there is oil on the stick

10-22-2018, 10:18 AM	#64
bobss396 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 721	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Shoot some flat black paint on it, let it dry and stick it. It should show up.

10-22-2018, 05:37 PM	#66
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: An oil dipstick dilemma Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I would be concerned about the paint releasing from the stick and peeling off in a sheet. I had a car once that had small holes drilled in the stick at full, add, and in between. The oil would span the hole and be visible.