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Old 09-17-2020, 07:59 PM   #21
JSeery
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

Unless you have something different connected up the ignition switch should have nothing to do with the solenoid you installed. The ignition switch input should be hot all the time and connected to the same solenoid terminal as the battery (thus hot all the time, just like the original).

Might have to do a little more think here (that's on my part) but I don't see why it won't work the way you are wanting to wire it up.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:07 PM   #22
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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Unless you have something different connected up the ignition switch should have nothing to do with the solenoid you installed. The ignition switch input should be hot all the time and connected to the same solenoid terminal as the battery (thus hot all the time, just like the original).

Might have to do a little more think here (that's on my part) but I don't see why it won't work the way you are wanting to wire it up.
I hoping for this. At present as reported original starter button is not doing the business right? Dont want to do any 2 wire conversions if possible.
Phil NZ
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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I hoping for this. At present as reported original starter button is not doing the business right? Dont want to do any 2 wire conversions if possible.
Phil NZ
Ya, but that is just a wiring issue between the button and the solenoid if shorting the terminal on it activates it. The starter button is just a remote ground path.

This looks like it should work to me.
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Last edited by JSeery; 09-17-2020 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:43 PM   #24
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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Ya, but that is just a wiring issue between the button and the solenoid if shorting the terminal on it activates it. The starter button is just a remote ground path.

This looks like it should work to me.

So is it just to re run a wire from solenoid start switch connection to starter button on dash? As other wiring is how it already is? With the existing fitted jumper wire still in place as per single wire set up?
Phil NZ
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

Not familiar with your solenoid but when I changed to 12V neg earth (ground) I had to add a 12V relay to get my stock starter button to work.

The starter button grounds the relay and the relay sends 12V to the starter solenoid.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:54 PM   #26
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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Not familiar with your solenoid but when I changed to 12V neg earth (ground) I had to add a 12V relay to get my stock starter button to work.

The starter button grounds the relay and the relay sends 12V to the starter solenoid.
Thats how i understand my 4 pole soleniod should work.
Starter button grounds solenoid , solenoid clicks closed and power then to outlet to starter and its solenoid.
Phil
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

just relooked at the enlarged wiring diagram and it seems similar operation to wiring diagram as per J Serry?
The 2 input wires at the battery connection terminal are to:
1: Field terminal at Voltage regulator.
2:Ignition switch, gauges etc.

Phil NZ
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:12 PM   #28
JSeery
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

If your starter engages when you short out the starter button terminal on the solenoid, then it should be the same thing when wired to the button on the dash. All the button is, is a connection to ground. It is the chrome button with a single connection on it correct? They can be an issue with not making a good ground connection to the hole it is installed in. I think Kube always adds an additional ground wire from the housing.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:22 PM   #29
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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If your starter engages when you short out the starter button terminal on the solenoid, then it should be the same thing when wired to the button on the dash. All the button is, is a connection to ground. It is the chrome button with a single connection on it correct? They can be an issue with not making a good ground connection to the hole it is installed in. I think Kube always adds an additional ground wire from the housing.
Yes As per drawing that all seems correct. So it should be removed cleaned up and add an addition ground wire.
before the engine rebuild it was still on 6v and this worked ok.
Will check clean up at start button etc and retry.
Got some time back a large colour coded and laminated wiring diagram from Classic Car Wiring in USA for 46.47 & 48 Mercury cars.These have been a great help to clearly see and follow.
Phil NZ
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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I requested info from Vintage Garage who I had got bits off for the 12v converstion.

Hello Simple
Your starter needs 12 volts to your denso starter may need to replace your single wire button to 2 wire so when you push the button delivers 12 volts currently your button goes to ground will not work with your new starter.

Jay.

Just wanted to keep all starter sequence as per original as much as possible.
Phil NZ
How can a 4 post solenoid be considered original?
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:16 PM   #31
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

Ok so looked behind starter button and saw the earth wire had detached from switch.
Pulled out switch, cleaned up contacts and refitted wire. surprise surprise it started right up!!! yea.
Probably happened when I was swapping out 6v dash lamps for 12 v.
Appreciate all assistance and advice gived.
Phil NZ
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:07 AM   #32
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

Wow, Phil!! This has been quite a ride!! J. Seery to the rescue with his super electrical knowledge! Just goes to show what a great resource this Ford Barn network is.


Very happy you've got this solved and can now get out an put on some "road miles".
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:10 AM   #33
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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Wow, Phil!! This has been quite a ride!! J. Seery to the rescue with his super electrical knowledge! Just goes to show what a great resource this Ford Barn network is.


Very happy you've got this solved and can now get out an put on some "road miles".
So am i and this site is a great resource with those with the little extra always wiling to assist and give.
Phil NZ
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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How can a 4 post solenoid be considered original?
It cant as with the high torque starter, the change to 12 volt or the new style generator.
I was refering to the original key to ignition switch and via a firewall mounted solenoid as opposed to a new 2 wire key switch direct to starter.
i have still retained the single wire set up as opposed to 2 wire set up.
Also this 4 post solenoid sits beneath one of those original type heaters which has an air mounted duct on underside of hood.The motor for heater almost obscures this solenoid.
Phil NZ

Last edited by Phil Gillespie; 09-18-2020 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:20 PM   #35
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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An update from suggestions and advice,

Pushing the original start button incar there is no click of soleniod comming in.

I then shorted on the solenoid the button terminal to ground: Solenoid clicked in.

With ignition switch off: power to starter connection on solenoid out to starter.
With ignition switch on: Power to starter connection on soleniod outt starter.
Power to starter connection button terminal.

Ignition switch on Voltage at terminals on solenoid:
1: Battery positive yes
2:Jumper connecton terminal as per drawing, yes
3;Starter switch Yes ???
4:Starter motor No.

The solenoid has at the battery input terminal a 2 wire connection from ?
The solenoid has at the starter switch terminal a single wire connection From starter button I would think.
Phil NZ
No solenoid click with button; clicks when grounding the button terminal on the solenoid. Sounds like a bad starter button on the dash, which is very common with the reproduction buttons. I just trashed my repo button and paid a stupid price for NOS button. The repo buttons can not be repaired as the tabs that hold the back on will break if spread to open and then bent back.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:54 PM   #36
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

Way to go Phil!
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:50 PM   #37
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 12v conversion 59a starter solenoid 4 pole. 46 Mercury.

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Way to go Phil!
As per Joe Cocker " I get by with a little help from my feiends" Especially truenat this site. Thanks so much.
Phil NZ
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