Removing and replacing wood frames, HOW?

[Terry, NJ]

Today I started the R&R of the wood frame of the R.R. door of my Town Sedan. Wow! I've been careful not to distort the metal too much when yanking the frame sections out. However. It looks very easy to do! After pulling all the brads/nails out, I took the top of the door off. Then, with prying and cursing , I managed to get the top section out and the rear (short) section out. This wood is not too bad. The worse area is the front (long) section. Any suggestions? any online downloads? Also, Are the machine bolts on the hinges 1/4 X 20 or 12 X 24? It looks like they should be 1/4 X 20, but I removed 12 X 24s. Should I flatten out the hinges on the anvil? they seem to be slightly rounded.

T.I.A. Terry

[Glenn C.]

I woudn't flatten out the hinges until you finish with what you are doing with the door wood. Make sure you have marked where each hinge came from. Do not mix the hinges from the right side of the car to the left for example. As a point, Briggs body cars marked a number on each hinge for its location. When you have finshed dry fitting (no glue and smaller size screws) the wood, try hanging the door in the vehicle frame, and check all the gaps around the door for equal, and the fit for closing.

[Mike V. Florida]

It is a bitch to replace the wood inside the car since the wood was assembled first and then the steel body was place on top of the wood.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

It is a bitch to replace the wood inside the car since the wood was assembled first....

(True words, ...just not the word I would have used!)

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by Glenn C.

I woudn't flatten out the hinges until you finish with what you are doing with the door wood. Make sure you have marked where each hinge came from. Do not mix the hinges from the right side of the car to the left for example. As a point, Briggs body cars marked a number on each hinge for its location. When you have finshed dry fitting (no glue and smaller size screws) the wood, try hanging the door in the vehicle frame, and check all the gaps around the door for equal, and the fit for closing.

I stamped the hinges R.R. Upper and R.R. Lower respectively on an area that won't show when it's reasembled. I purposely kept the left door intact for a visual aid. ( I got that feelin'......)

Are the hinges held in place with #12 screws or 1/4"?

Did Henry Ford put that little dab of brazing at the top of the door or was that added by someone afterward?

This is a Bee-itch! Are there any "how-to" down loads?

What are the tolerances that Ford worked to on the cuts (Wood)?
TIA Terry

[Aerocraft]

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I suggest that you consider using one of the epoxy "casting" systems that are on the market. I had a similar problem with the right hand rear body sill on my '29 Murray. It is in a place that is very difficult to replace without some serious work.

I used "Quick Poly". First made a "mold" of thin sheet aluminum and duct tape, making sure that the sill was level. I then made two "pours" of the epoxy to fill the void. It did take some quick work with tape to plug holes and cracks that I had missed. I was very pleased with the results. Facing similar problems with my 68A restoration, I plan to use the same method with the door wood. Gar Williams

[Glenn C.]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

I stamped the hinges R.R. Upper and R.R. Lower respectively on an area that won't show when it's reasembled. I purposely kept the left door intact for a visual aid. ( I got that feelin'......)

Are the hinges held in place with #12 screws or 1/4"?

Did Henry Ford put that little dab of brazing at the top of the door or was that added by someone afterward?

This is a Bee-itch! Are there any "how-to" down loads?

What are the tolerances that Ford worked to on the cuts (Wood)?
TIA Terry

Good move on stamping the hinges.....now just don't try to straighten them until you test the doors to the body for fit as mentioned before.

The hinges for the Briggs Body fordor Sedans were bolted through the door pillar with 1/4" flathead counter sunk slotted bolts. These bolts I had to replace by re-machining the head on carriage bolts to obtain the correct configuration for the countersink holes in the hinge.

The brazing at the top of the door pieces was actually solder on mine, but I don't see why brazing would not work !

Not aware of any downloads, but remember to take 100's of pictures from every angle for reference.
When doing the work on the vehicle wood......work from, "from front to back" and from "bottom - up".....this is how the factory would have assembled the car on the assembly line.

I found the tolerances of the wood to be very accurate where it was needed for strength and for the metal forming. Tennoning and dovetail fits were usually perfect. Keep in mind, most of the plant craftsman for the wood, came out of the carriage industry.

Another handy note.....use a pressure injection method to inject epoxy glue into joints you do not want to take apart.

Who ever said it would be easy......You will have a great car when it is done, and something you will be proud to own and drive.

Remember.....dry fit everything, before glueing !!

[Terry, NJ]

Glenn, Thanks for your input! Once again, I marvel at how advanced Ford and Briggs were. The wood was machine cut/formed. I'm measuring every thing with a vernier caliper and nominal sizes are right there. not even any shrinkage! 1.250 is 1.250, not 1.240 or 1.245. I can see why the Germans and Japs never had a chance! If we could mass produce parts like these in the 20s and 30s. The machines of the 40s could out produce anyone!

The bolts will be as you describe, 1/4 X 20. I really did not think that Ford used a .040+ oversize clearance hole.

The little dab of brazing may have have been a replacement. I'll do it over with brass when the time comes.

I spent the AM looking online for something about the wood installation, but found nothing.

I decided I will buy one wood kit for the door and use it for a pattern (Mirror image) instead on thrashing around in the darkness of ignorance and guess work.
Thanks again, Terry

Originally Posted by Glenn C.

Good move on stamping the hinges.....now just don't try to straighten them until you test the doors to the body for fit as mentioned before.

The hinges for the Briggs Body fordor Sedans were bolted through the door pillar with 1/4" flathead counter sunk slotted bolts. These bolts I had to replace by re-machining the head on carriage bolts to obtain the correct configuration for the countersink holes in the hinge.

The brazing at the top of the door pieces was actually solder on mine, but I don't see why brazing would not work !

Not aware of any downloads, but remember to take 100's of pictures from every angle for reference.
When doing the work on the vehicle wood......work from, "from front to back" and from "bottom - up".....this is how the factory would have assembled the car on the assembly line.

I found the tolerances of the wood to be very accurate where it was needed for strength and for the metal forming. Tennoning and dovetail fits were usually perfect. Keep in mind, most of the plant craftsman for the wood, came out of the carriage industry.

Another handy note.....use a pressure injection method to inject epoxy glue into joints you do not want to take apart.

Who ever said it would be easy......You will have a great car when it is done, and something you will be proud to own and drive.

Remember.....dry fit everything, before glueing !!

[Barry B./ Ma.]

When you replace the door wood make syre the doors are attached to the body and not on the bench. Any flattening of the curved contour will affect the fit. Too flat and the door won't clear the body dog leg.

[Glenn C.]

Don't think for one moment that when you receive your wood pieces they will fit perfectly. You'll be lucky if they do. Make sure after you receive the wood, you just let it stay with the car at the same temperature for at least a couple of weeks. Longer if you can. Check your wood with a moisture meter also. Wood has got to moan and groan before you cut into it. But by what you have written, you have that tid-bit down pat anyway. The manufactures of the kits, quite often do not use the same type of joint, but you have to live with it.