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Old 02-28-2015, 05:45 PM   #1
F-word541
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Default 292 teapot starting issues

Hey guys,
Just found this forum today. Super excited to find a good group of Ford lovers to share info. I have a 56 Country Sedan wagon with the 292 topped with the 4000 series teapot which I recently rebuilt. It was my first time rebuilding a carb so I watched tons of youtube videos and got advice and tips from experienced friends and took my time. It went well. Got it back on and fired her up made some idle and choke adjustments. She Starts good when cold but after driving a while if I shut her down and try to re-start in a short while it seems to crank for a long time before it fires. It will always fire just seems to take longer when warmed up. I also put an electric choke on and it has a Pertronics ignition in the dist. and new coil without resistor. Thinking I might need to adjust the float but not sure the best way to adjust. any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 02-28-2015, 06:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Welcome. Couple of great carb guys in this forum. I'm sure they'll respond when they read your post.
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Is the choke closing while the ign is off? Does it appear to be evaporating or draining back the fuel from the float? see if when you work the accelerator whether or not there is fuel from the accelerator pump squirting from the accelerator pump nozzles , if not the float may be stuck in the closed position, My money is on theelectric choke re-setting,I changed every electric choke I have to manual.I experienced the same problem.
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

sounds like flooding
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

When you are experiencing the hot re-start problem, hold the throttle pedal to the floor when cranking to start. If it starts better that way, then you are probably experiencing the choke closing up (as stated by Fordestes) and or fuel percolating in the bowl from the heat after shutdown. The up to 10% ethanol in gasoline these days does this a lot easier than gas without ethanol.

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Old 03-03-2015, 12:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

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Thanks for the advice. It doesn't seem to help holding the throttle down. Can't tell if the accelerator squirters are spraying or not. Didn't get to spend much time on it over the weekend due to a snowstorm. too cold out in the garage. Will check into it more when it warms up a little. I was also kicking around the idea of getting rid of the teapot and going with a newer Holley. Any thoughts on a good replacement that would work well on the 292?
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Old 03-03-2015, 11:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

If you want to switch to a more modern Holley or other 4 barrel carb, you will need an adapter (still available) because of the different bolt pattern and also will need to change the distributor to a 1957 or later one because the carb vacuum signals are drastically different to the distributor. '56 was the last year of the "Loadomatic" ignition system that was vacuum only.

As far as a carburetor an Edelbrock 500 CFM is a good choice and more easily tune-able than the Holley. Probably cheaper too. It's also been used and liked by a few Ford Barner's

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Old 03-03-2015, 11:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

A holley 94 is a good carb, or even a holley 500 2 bbl.autolite 2100 two barrel or an edelbrock 500 4bbl,I have used them all and they seem to perform ok depending on what suits your driving habbits.
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Edelbrock sounds like it might be the way to go. Pretty sure that's what my friend put on his 292 in a 56 p/u and has had no issues. I think I am going to stick with the teapot at least for this summer. Then go from there. Might try running non-ethanol fuel and see if that helps. I would like to get away from the oilbath air cleaner though. Is there any good alternatives that will mount to the teapot? Thanks again for the good advice. Very much appreciated.
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

You might check to see if you have a phenolic spacer between your carb's base and the intake manifold. That will help insulate the carb from boil over/evaporation when you shut down.
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Old 03-03-2015, 05:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

I don't think there are other air cleaners that will fit the teapot carb because it is taller above the air cleaner neck than any other carbs. You would probably have to get an aftermarket air cleaner for a 5 1/8" carb neck, then stack two paper filter elements together, or find a tall paper element. Then put the lid on that came with the air cleaner. Would have to take measurements to figure out how tall the filter element has to be.

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Old 03-03-2015, 05:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Welcome to the Barn.
Hard to imagine percolating this time of year, but, what I'd do is the next time it cranks without fireing instantly I'd dribble some fuel down the carb, reach in and hit the key to see if it fires on the 1st crank. If it does then you'll know it needs fuel and probably from percolating.
You'll also be able to evaluate the choke flap too, see if open or closed.
Lots of info on here about percolating, do a search.
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Old 03-03-2015, 05:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

You might try to find a '57 factory 4 barrel intake manifold as it has the right bolt pattern for the Edelbrock. The Edelbrock is a direct copy of the Carter AFB which was first used on the '57 312. Ford used three new 4 barrels in 57: the AFB, the 4100 Ford/Autolite (probably the best if you can find one-very simple and reliable) and the Holley (model 4150 or 4160) which is still much the same today. I don't know if Ford was experimenting or if supplies were short but I have seen all three carbs on '57 312's. As mentioned you will need the distributor from a '57 thru '64 292 or 312.
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

I have used the original '57 AFB, which has a vac operated secondary instead of mechanical, and it worked pretty good. But the best carb on my 292 was an Autolite 4100 from a '65 Mustang HP 289, factory hand choke and never any hot start problems. Find one of those, get a '57 intake and later distributor and you will never regret it
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

I'm a fan of the holley 390 large two barrel on a stocker yblock.
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Old 03-05-2015, 06:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Welcome aboard, always glad to see another '56.... does your outfit still have the "Load-O-Matic" (full vacuum control) distributor on it? They are rather prone to giving up and making the engine run very "retarded" - which is usually hot. Which then adds to the percolation difficulties. You can easily update the engine to a later model (after '56) distributor that has both vacuum and mechanical advance. Often the best choice is a replacement distributor for a '63 Ford F100 / 292. Even if you run it on full manifold vacuum - after tuning, it will beat the original distributor hands down. Many have fitted a dry element - inside the oil bath air cleaner - and it looks very sanitary with the teapot carb - or Edelwok - Holley - Autolite or whatever.
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Old 03-06-2015, 01:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Yup. It still has the original Load-o-matic on it. Looking around for a 57 or newer one now. Is fine to run the newer dist. with the teapot carb? Just plug off the extra vacuum line?
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-word541 View Post
Yup. It still has the original Load-o-matic on it. Looking around for a 57 or newer one now. Is fine to run the newer dist. with the teapot carb? Just plug off the extra vacuum line?
There is a profound difference in the amount of vacuum applied to the diaphragms in the 56 dual and the 57 up single.

Check out this thread which has those differences listed and also a link from Sal to the Holley 4000 carburetor manuals.

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142689
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

If you want to keep the Holley 4000 teapot carb, here is a link from Ted Eaton on how to convert the Holley 4000 to ported vacuum for a '57 and later distributor. I agree it's best to get one for a later 292 like '62 -'64 truck since they were better designed.

Sal

http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2...-distributors/
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Thanks for the links. Tons of great info. Found a distributor for a 63 F-100 on Ebay for $59 shipped. Its on the way. Looks like it won't be too involved getting the Holley set up for the new Distributor. Supposed to get into the 70's here tomorrow. Might have to get Ol Blue out for some cruising
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Old 03-07-2015, 09:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Let me add that the Teapot 4V carb has a pair of anti-siphon holes in the carburetor's top cover. If either of these holes is plugged, then the fuel within the bowl can siphon over into the secondary bores and empty the fuel bowl thus making the engine difficult to restart. Those two holes are located behind the air cleaner stud and in the top of the secondary fuel channel. Using some fine pieces of wire in the holes can help to insure that they are clear.
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

UPDATE: Took the car to a guy who is very knowledgeable with the old Fords. Checked everything out. found out that the Pertronix that I put in had failed and the spark was super weak. Also the vacuum advance on the distributor wasn't working. So I installed a newer distributor. Left out the Pertronix and kept the points and condenser on the new distributor. Adjusted valves. Apparently the Pertronix systems are prone to failure from what I am hearing. Starts and runs much better now. Very happy. Had the old girl out and about with no issues. Ready for the first show next month.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-word541 View Post
UPDATE: Took the car to a guy who is very knowledgeable with the old Fords. ......
Since you've removed the electronic ignition conversion and gone back to points, ask him if you need to re-install a ballast resistor in the coil circuit. They were originally put in starting in '56 along with the voltage change to 12v. They keep the 'running' voltage to the coil slightly lower and help the points last longer but it's bypassed during starter cranking.

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Old 03-19-2015, 12:21 AM   #24
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Yes. He put a ballast resistor back in to keep from burning up the points.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Dang! You were right, he is very knowledgeable.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

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UPDATE:
Car has been running good. I do want to upgrade so I have been watching ebay and found a nice Autolite 4100. just finished re-building it. pulled the teapot and installed an adaptor plate. The only thing I am not sure about is a vacuum hose that ran from the old carb to the top of the fuel pump. can I plug that off? Or do I need to tie it in with the vacuum port for the distributor? I don't want to mess up the spark advance. I have already upgraded to a newer style distributor. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

A vacuum line from the base of the teapot carb that went to the fuel pump vacuum booster would be for full manifold vacuum to run the windshield wipers and the heater controls, if your car has them.
You may need to make or find a fitting on the intake manifold to provide full vacuum to the wipers. Possibly drill & tap one into the carb adapter?
The tube on top of the fuel pump leading to the wiper motor should be labeled.

The fitting on the right front side of the carb (example below) has a 'ported' vacuum pressure, used only for the distributor advance unit. Tying into that line will mess up the timing advance.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fuel pump wiper fitting.jpg (54.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Dist vac port copy.jpg (53.3 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 08-20-2015 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:46 AM   #28
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

If you have the late model carb and the late model distributor, then simply hook the timed or ported vacuum port at the carb to the vacuum can on the distributor. Set the initial ignition timing with the distributor vacuum hose unhooked and hook the vacuum line back up when you're through. If all is well, there should be no change in ignition timing at idle when the vacuum hose is hooked up versus being unhooked. It's only when the engine is slightly speeded up that you should see any significant increase in ignition timing with a timing light when the vacuum part of the distributor kicks in.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:12 AM   #29
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by TedEaton View Post
... Set the initial ignition timing with the distributor vacuum hose unhooked and hook the vacuum line back up when you're through....
Because some folks don't already know...
Yes, you need to temporarily plug or cap the vacuum line going into the carburetor when doing this.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Because some folks don't already know...
Yes, you need to temporarily plug or cap the vacuum line going into the carburetor when doing this.
Not really. There is no vacuum at that port at idle so it makes no difference whether it is plugged or open.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

Got the 4100 mounted and hooked up. Starts and runs good. I ended up drilling a hole in the side of the adapter plate at the secondary hole to add a port for full manifold vacuum. I just pressed in a 3/16" barb union and slid the vacuum hose on the fitting. Worked out pretty well. I also had to put a 45 under the heater control valve. It was about an 1/8" too close. Not sure if I have the right size jets in there. It came with 50's in the primary and 58's in the secondary. Seems to be running a little rich. I am getting some white smoke. Where I live is about 3500' elevation. Is there a chart for figuring out jet size?

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album....ictureid=32365
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:54 AM   #32
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

The rule of thumb for altitude jetting is a one number reduction in jet size for each rise of 2000 feet. In your case, a two number jet reduction but going with a three number reduction might work out better. Rules are not an exact science.
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: 292 teapot starting issues

I have an Edelbrock dry element cleaner on my 54 merc with teapot. Has a tall phenolic adapter the height of the carb. works great.
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