The Ford Barn

sjaakslinger · 12-07-2022, 09:04 AM

Thanks a lot everyone for all the input.

@Mart
We tried to pull the pan yesterday, but thought we knew better than the repair manual. We couldn't get the pan past those radius rod (?). We did raise the engine though. The manual tells to turn the crankshaft, but the engine is stuck. We'll give it another try tomorrow. and loosen those rods.

I'll check out your videos, thanks. So the motor is still in the car. I was hoping to get a good impression on it's state before pulling the engine out. I did get a peek after lowering the pan a bit...same rusty wet look though. Didn't check the pan rail yet. Thanks for that mounting tip....we'll keep it in mind in case we pull the engine.

The car's history isn't really clear. It spent the last 20 years in a barn in Pennsylvania. It was last registered in '66, also in Pennsylvania. It looks like they did indeed work on the engine before. Till now everything came off pretty easily. Even the rusted exhaust link pipe and the exhaust at the manifolds. We inspected the bottom of the car. Looks pretty solid, besides the obvious surface rust. The car seems complete as well. I did take a hit at the left front some point, braking the bumper bracket and bending the fender and grill a little bit. It caused the left headlight to be a bit closer to the cowling. The chassis seems straight though.

Depending on the engine being an LB engine or not and salvageable or not I'll have to decide what route to take here. It won't be a full resoration in any case, but a technical restoration and just drive it. Slight interior improvement, rust treatment on the outside and go. Maybe juice brakes, depending on it's stopping abilities.[emoji16]

Dennis

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T720 met Tapatalk

Mart · 12-07-2022, 10:21 AM

Whatever happens, I can't imagine a scenario where the motor does not need to come out. I would advise just bite the bullet and pull it. (I'm a poet). If in doubt yank it out. (told you).

Mart.

rotorwrench · 12-07-2022, 12:23 PM

I'd have to agree with Mart. The condition warrants work that is much better and easier done out of the car. As was mentioned, an engine stand adapter that connects the the exhaust ports is much better than worrying about cracking the rear bell area. The casting is not all that thick on the rear end there.

The one rusty piston is likely the sticking point. Just getting the valves out is a big job and they should come out to insure serviceability. If the engine was not so internally fowled and the cylinders were all still void of corrosion, things would be different. That one is just beyond that state. Everything needs to be cleaned & checked.

sjaakslinger · 12-07-2022, 02:14 PM

Yeah, we'll probably pull the engine. I measured the bore btw, says 3.08". As far as this is accurate, the measuring caliper was a relatively cheap one.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

Mart · 12-07-2022, 02:42 PM

That's 17.5 thou over standard. Could be 15, could be 20 depending on how accurate the measuring method. Any marks on the good pistons?
standard bore is 3-1/16"

Ggmac · 12-07-2022, 04:13 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Isnt std 3.087?

rotorwrench · 12-07-2022, 04:21 PM

It would 3 1/16" or 3.0625. If it was previouy overhauled with a bore job then the oversize should be on top of the pistons.

jimTN · 12-07-2022, 04:48 PM

Its hard to tell from the pics but most of those engines had sleeves. The easiest way to work that bad cyl may be to break the piston out driving from below, worst case cutting the rod into, then -putting a sleeve in that cyl bored to match what you bore the other cyl's. As wore as the engine is I would suspect it will need boring all cyls.

Ggmac · 12-07-2022, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

It would 3 1/16" or 3.0625. If it was previouy overhauled with a bore job then the oversize should be on top of the pistons.

Thanks . It seems like Im losing it . One foot in front of the other .
Gary

rotorwrench · 12-07-2022, 07:43 PM

I think the tin can sleeves came later but it depends on which block it has. The 21-stud block doesn't have as much room for sleeves as the 24-stud blocks.

Rodrelic · 12-08-2022, 09:42 AM

Does it have water pump block off plates on the block just below the head mounted water pumps?

sjaakslinger · 12-08-2022, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodrelic

Does it have water pump block off plates on the block just below the head mounted water pumps?

99% sure it doesn't. Lots of mud and cr@p there, but at first glance I didn't see a plate and bolts.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

sjaakslinger · 12-08-2022, 12:23 PM

Well, we didn't manage to get the oil pan off. The engine is stuck, so we couldn't turn the crankshaft to clear the pan inside. So, the unevitable is next....taking the engine out.

I cleaned a small piece of the oil pan rail, but didn't see any cracks (yet).

I did get a peek inside though. Same rusty appearance. I was able to measure the distance between the most rear visible studs. If I'm correct, that's the rear main bearing? Measures around 3 1/4".

So am I looking at an LB engine!?[emoji850]

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

bobH · 12-08-2022, 01:18 PM

Regarding that 3.08 measurement.... It depends on how that was obtained. If he measured BELOW the ridge, it likely just indicates a worn cylinder, based on standard bore. If he measured the diameter ON the ridge, then the 'puzzle' indicated in the previous posts still applies. (Opinion) In any event... I see a lot of work, and a fixable engine. And, if an LB, in my opinion, I'd go for it. (I'm prejudiced, I have some good memories with an LB.)

rottenron36 · 12-10-2022, 10:53 AM

Don't forget how hard it is to find rod bearings, and how expensive they are!

flatjack9 · 12-10-2022, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjaakslinger

Well, we didn't manage to get the oil pan off. The engine is stuck, so we couldn't turn the crankshaft to clear the pan inside. So, the unevitable is next....taking the engine out.

I cleaned a small piece of the oil pan rail, but didn't see any cracks (yet).

I did get a peek inside though. Same rusty appearance. I was able to measure the distance between the most rear visible studs. If I'm correct, that's the rear main bearing? Measures around 3 1/4".

So am I looking at an LB engine!?[emoji850]

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

3 1/4" would be LB block.

GB SISSON · 12-10-2022, 12:23 PM

Believe me, when I can 'start 'em in the field' and drive them away, that is my favorite kind of old truck adventure. I have pulled that off maybe six times in 50 years of picking up old fords. Those with mechanical brakes were extra fun because you actually could start driving them as is (if one happens to live on the back side of a rural island). BUT.... your engine is not a candidate for that particular brand of fun. They are sooo difficult to work in in the vehicle and sooo nice on a stand. Do yourself a favor and pull that bad tooth out. It will feel much better after that!

sjaakslinger · 12-13-2022, 11:24 AM

Ok, working towards the inevitable...taking the engine out. We removed the grill and radiator as well as the passenger toe board and the trans cover plate. Next will be the shifter and clutch linkage.

Any tips/pointers for getting the engine and trans out? Where is the (approx.) center of gravity of the engine+trans? Might help in lifting... Thanks.

Dennis

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

Mart · 12-13-2022, 11:50 AM

Somewhere near here.

sjaakslinger · 12-13-2022, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

Somewhere near here.

[emoji106]

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

12-07-2022, 09:04 AM	#21
sjaakslinger Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 92	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Thanks a lot everyone for all the input. @Mart We tried to pull the pan yesterday, but thought we knew better than the repair manual. We couldn't get the pan past those radius rod (?). We did raise the engine though. The manual tells to turn the crankshaft, but the engine is stuck. We'll give it another try tomorrow. and loosen those rods. I'll check out your videos, thanks. So the motor is still in the car. I was hoping to get a good impression on it's state before pulling the engine out. I did get a peek after lowering the pan a bit...same rusty wet look though. Didn't check the pan rail yet. Thanks for that mounting tip....we'll keep it in mind in case we pull the engine. The car's history isn't really clear. It spent the last 20 years in a barn in Pennsylvania. It was last registered in '66, also in Pennsylvania. It looks like they did indeed work on the engine before. Till now everything came off pretty easily. Even the rusted exhaust link pipe and the exhaust at the manifolds. We inspected the bottom of the car. Looks pretty solid, besides the obvious surface rust. The car seems complete as well. I did take a hit at the left front some point, braking the bumper bracket and bending the fender and grill a little bit. It caused the left headlight to be a bit closer to the cowling. The chassis seems straight though. Depending on the engine being an LB engine or not and salvageable or not I'll have to decide what route to take here. It won't be a full resoration in any case, but a technical restoration and just drive it. Slight interior improvement, rust treatment on the outside and go. Maybe juice brakes, depending on it's stopping abilities.[emoji16] Dennis Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T720 met Tapatalk

12-07-2022, 10:21 AM	#22
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Whatever happens, I can't imagine a scenario where the motor does not need to come out. I would advise just bite the bullet and pull it. (I'm a poet). If in doubt yank it out. (told you). Mart.

12-07-2022, 12:23 PM	#23
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? I'd have to agree with Mart. The condition warrants work that is much better and easier done out of the car. As was mentioned, an engine stand adapter that connects the the exhaust ports is much better than worrying about cracking the rear bell area. The casting is not all that thick on the rear end there. The one rusty piston is likely the sticking point. Just getting the valves out is a big job and they should come out to insure serviceability. If the engine was not so internally fowled and the cylinders were all still void of corrosion, things would be different. That one is just beyond that state. Everything needs to be cleaned & checked. Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-07-2022 at 12:31 PM.

12-07-2022, 02:14 PM	#24
sjaakslinger Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 92	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Yeah, we'll probably pull the engine. I measured the bore btw, says 3.08". As far as this is accurate, the measuring caliper was a relatively cheap one. Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

12-07-2022, 02:42 PM	#25
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? That's 17.5 thou over standard. Could be 15, could be 20 depending on how accurate the measuring method. Any marks on the good pistons? standard bore is 3-1/16"

12-07-2022, 04:13 PM	#26
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,101	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Isnt std 3.087?

12-07-2022, 04:21 PM	#27
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? It would 3 1/16" or 3.0625. If it was previouy overhauled with a bore job then the oversize should be on top of the pistons.

12-07-2022, 04:48 PM	#28
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Its hard to tell from the pics but most of those engines had sleeves. The easiest way to work that bad cyl may be to break the piston out driving from below, worst case cutting the rod into, then -putting a sleeve in that cyl bored to match what you bore the other cyl's. As wore as the engine is I would suspect it will need boring all cyls.

12-07-2022, 07:43 PM	#30
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? I think the tin can sleeves came later but it depends on which block it has. The 21-stud block doesn't have as much room for sleeves as the 24-stud blocks.

12-08-2022, 09:42 AM	#31
Rodrelic Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Florida panhandle Posts: 194	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Does it have water pump block off plates on the block just below the head mounted water pumps?

12-08-2022, 12:23 PM	#33
sjaakslinger Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 92	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Well, we didn't manage to get the oil pan off. The engine is stuck, so we couldn't turn the crankshaft to clear the pan inside. So, the unevitable is next....taking the engine out. I cleaned a small piece of the oil pan rail, but didn't see any cracks (yet). I did get a peek inside though. Same rusty appearance. I was able to measure the distance between the most rear visible studs. If I'm correct, that's the rear main bearing? Measures around 3 1/4". So am I looking at an LB engine!?[emoji850] Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk

12-08-2022, 01:18 PM	#34
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Regarding that 3.08 measurement.... It depends on how that was obtained. If he measured BELOW the ridge, it likely just indicates a worn cylinder, based on standard bore. If he measured the diameter ON the ridge, then the 'puzzle' indicated in the previous posts still applies. (Opinion) In any event... I see a lot of work, and a fixable engine. And, if an LB, in my opinion, I'd go for it. (I'm prejudiced, I have some good memories with an LB.)

12-10-2022, 10:53 AM	#35
rottenron36 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Corbett OR Posts: 233	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Don't forget how hard it is to find rod bearings, and how expensive they are!

12-10-2022, 12:23 PM	#37
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 4,940	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Believe me, when I can 'start 'em in the field' and drive them away, that is my favorite kind of old truck adventure. I have pulled that off maybe six times in 50 years of picking up old fords. Those with mechanical brakes were extra fun because you actually could start driving them as is (if one happens to live on the back side of a rural island). BUT.... your engine is not a candidate for that particular brand of fun. They are sooo difficult to work in in the vehicle and sooo nice on a stand. Do yourself a favor and pull that bad tooth out. It will feel much better after that! __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

12-13-2022, 11:24 AM	#38
sjaakslinger Member Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 92	Re: '36 221 - rebuildable?? Ok, working towards the inevitable...taking the engine out. We removed the grill and radiator as well as the passenger toe board and the trans cover plate. Next will be the shifter and clutch linkage. Any tips/pointers for getting the engine and trans out? Where is the (approx.) center of gravity of the engine+trans? Might help in lifting... Thanks. Dennis Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk