The Ford Barn

RalphG · 11-17-2014, 03:15 PM

Probably not too big a surprise but when I put a battery in the 52 Merc to give it a test this morning , it turned alright. But from the sound of it there is no compression on any of the cylinders. Hardly possible that all the valves are stuck open, or is it? This engine was "running when parked" some 30+ years ago.

cmbrucew · 11-17-2014, 03:22 PM

RalphG
Pull the plugs, and squirt Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders to free up the rings. Let it set, then more MMO.
Bruce

Willit Stop · 11-17-2014, 03:23 PM

Yep.Stuck valves are highly likely.
Don't you just love some of those terms:
"Ran when last parked."
"For sale by owner."
"Previously owned."

Ross F-1 · 11-17-2014, 03:52 PM

Broken timing gear?

dean333 · 11-17-2014, 04:02 PM

Ralph, what's with the YouTube address ending in "roosty6?" Where do is go from there to see YOUR post??

4tford · 11-17-2014, 05:02 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hey Ralph, I just pulled a 59A apart. Rotated fairly well with a wrench and I was happy. Pulled the intake and 16 valves stuck up in the air. Bring it down to Regina and I can build you a new short block. Bill in Regina

A bones · 11-17-2014, 05:48 PM

I've been reluctant to say anything. as I have no real life experience(other than "washing out" my T motor) with a V8. BUT, I heard of tales by old timers (the ones who have left the building) a favorite remedy in these situations was kerosene. These come from a time when old flatheads were a step away from the scrap heap. No one considered rebuild. The word nostalgia was unheard of yet.

Two methods of use: One is to fill that motor all the way to the top (overflow). Let it soak a week or so. Drain kero fill with cheap oil. Start the motor let it idle, warm-up work the RPM gradually up not too fast. Then drain again fill with good oil.

Two is to use four qts kero in the crankcase and start motor. Let it sit at idle (no rev) for a time up to an hour. Then drain kero fill with cheap oil to flush. Run motor, drain and fill with good oil. I'm sure some may take offense to such abuse. My apologies, I just believe you'd rather not have to tear it down right away. I welcome ANY comments or criticism. We have many professionals here to shoot this down, or perhaps lend it some credibility. Thanks for the time.

JSeery · 11-17-2014, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A bones

I've been reluctant to say anything. as I have no real life experience(other than "washing out" my T motor) with a V8. BUT, I heard of tales by old timers (the ones who have left the building) a favorite remedy in these situations was kerosene. These come from a time when old flatheads were a step away from the scrap heap. No one considered rebuild. The word nostalgia was unheard of yet.

Two methods of use: One is to fill that motor all the way to the top (overflow). Let it soak a week or so. Drain kero fill with cheap oil. Start the motor let it idle, warm-up work the RPM gradually up not too fast. Then drain again fill with good oil.

Two is to use four qts kero in the crankcase and start motor. Let it sit at idle (no rev) for a time up to an hour. Then drain kero fill with cheap oil to flush. Run motor, drain and fill with good oil. I'm sure some may take offense to such abuse. My apologies, I just believe you'd rather not have to tear it down right away. I welcome ANY comments or criticism. We have many professionals here to shoot this down, or perhaps lend it some credibility. Thanks for the time.

I have never tried it ether, but have heard the same thing many times.

cmbrucew · 11-17-2014, 06:28 PM

Kerosene or coal oil were favorite cures for a lot of things. Maybe because there were not a lot of other choices. Drained oil was saved for other uses.
Bruce

rotorwrench · 11-17-2014, 07:15 PM

When I purchased my 2nd 1951 Merc several years back, it had a few stuck valves. After I pulled the heads I found a burned piston with broken rings so I was kinda glad I did that rather than flogging that poor cylinder to death trying to run the poor thing. If the motor is in the car, your all set to pull the heads. If you take it out, it will be even harder to get those bolts out after that many years. You just have to pray you don't twist any off. I managed to get all mine out and it hadn't been apart since 1963. All it will cost you is a top end set of gaskets and you will be able to see most of what might be ailing it after 30 years. You will be able to get to the exhaust valves easier. The intakes you can pour full of ATF & acetone mix to free them up.

RalphG · 11-17-2014, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean333

Ralph, what's with the YouTube address ending in "roosty6?" Where do is go from there to see YOUR post??

Hey Dean, I am Roosty6 and that link takes you to my channel. From there just click "videos" if you care to watch any of them.

RalphG · 11-17-2014, 07:29 PM

This Merc engine had work done on it shortly before it was parked. New pistons and rings, not sure what about the valves but I don't think there is anything wrong other than valves sticking. I've thought of the kerosene idea too. Just pour some in the oil filler and would that not get to where it needs to un-stick the valves?. Actually diesel fuel is much more readily available and might give similar results. I don't think I have ever seen "MMO" here either.
Its a little cool out there right now but I might pull the plugs tomorrow and investigate a little further if weather permits. Working outdoors on an engine in Sask. at this time of year is not a pleasant experience but I'm hoping to do a little.

Mike B · 11-17-2014, 08:39 PM

Assuming all valves up, pull the carb, and flood the intake with your favorite mix...I still the the heads will have to come off to do some "tapping" on the valves..so why not save a gallon or two and pull the heads now?

Just my .02

Mike B · 11-17-2014, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Broken timing gear?

Good point, rotor turning?

Tony, NY · 11-17-2014, 09:35 PM

I think it's a bad idea to try to start it now. Pull the intake and do a visual on the valves. See if they are stuck open or if some type of damage was done. Go from there.

RalphG · 11-17-2014, 09:59 PM

I really don't want to open that engine up unless it is absolutely necessary. It would mean having to get new gaskets to re-assemble. A gallon or two of diesel fuel is far cheaper and less trouble than new head and manifold gaskets. I had good luck on the 39 freeing up a couple of exhaust valves so I am going to see if my luck holds out on this engine.
I don't see how the timing gear could have broken being parked for 30 some years but I will open the dist. cap to make sure the rotor turns.

Mike B · 11-17-2014, 11:30 PM

Thing is, if the valves are stuck open, what ever crud is up on the stem, may not get "dieseled up", to allow the spring pressure to get them moving...just my thoughts.

But sitting 30 years...mice nest's etc...I'd be inclined to spend 35 or 40 dollars in gaskets, just to see what was inside.

Besides, diesel is for running my tractor, and shop heater

supereal · 11-18-2014, 01:23 AM

Don't put kerosene or any solvent in the crankcase. It is impossible to drain all of it out, and if it gets into bearings, big trouble. For old engines, drop the pan and scrape all the sludge, and clean the oil pump screen. If you are set on using kerosene, use it to wash out the pan debris, then wipe it clean. Most old Fords that haven't run for years have the valve chamber full of sludge. Remove the intake manifold to wipe out as much as you can without scraping, to reduce particles. Fill the crankcase with Shell Rotella oil, remove the spark plugs and crank the engine for a few minutes to circulate the oil. Replace the plugs and proceed to try to start it. It may require a few squirts of starting fluid to get it going. After running the engine for at least an hour or two, drain the oil amd refill with regular oil. With some luck, you may have revived a long dormant engine. If one or more valves stick, they will have to come out. The valve and guide assemblies, with the springs, require attention to restore dependabilty. Be sure to tag each one so they can be returned to their position, and preserve the lash. Many old engines are destroyed by just putting in fuel and trying to start.

4tford · 11-18-2014, 06:42 AM

Just pulled this 59A apart and yes it did rotate.

chap52 · 11-18-2014, 06:53 AM

I agree with cmbrucew...A little mmo in each cylinder should give you some compression. Especially if a recent build (if your sure of that?) If you crank it after putting the oil in be sure that the plugs are at least back where they belong...Open plug holes=sprayed mmo everywhere . Don't ask how I know.

11-17-2014, 03:15 PM	#1
RalphG Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sask. Canada Posts: 2,424	No Compression On The Merc Probably not too big a surprise but when I put a battery in the 52 Merc to give it a test this morning , it turned alright. But from the sound of it there is no compression on any of the cylinders. Hardly possible that all the valves are stuck open, or is it? This engine was "running when parked" some 30+ years ago. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/roosty6/videos

11-17-2014, 03:22 PM	#2
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: No Compression On The Merc RalphG Pull the plugs, and squirt Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders to free up the rings. Let it set, then more MMO. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

11-17-2014, 03:23 PM	#3
Willit Stop Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Eureka Calif. Posts: 969	Re: No Compression On The Merc Yep.Stuck valves are highly likely. Don't you just love some of those terms: "Ran when last parked." "For sale by owner." "Previously owned."

11-17-2014, 03:52 PM	#4
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: No Compression On The Merc Broken timing gear? __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

11-17-2014, 04:02 PM	#5
dean333 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Shorewood Illinois Posts: 865	Re: No Compression On The Merc Ralph, what's with the YouTube address ending in "roosty6?" Where do is go from there to see YOUR post?? __________________ Tim Carlig

11-17-2014, 05:02 PM	#6
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: No Compression On The Merc Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hey Ralph, I just pulled a 59A apart. Rotated fairly well with a wrench and I was happy. Pulled the intake and 16 valves stuck up in the air. Bring it down to Regina and I can build you a new short block. Bill in Regina

11-17-2014, 05:48 PM	#7
A bones Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: CLAYTON DE Posts: 1,283	Re: No Compression On The Merc I've been reluctant to say anything. as I have no real life experience(other than "washing out" my T motor) with a V8. BUT, I heard of tales by old timers (the ones who have left the building) a favorite remedy in these situations was kerosene. These come from a time when old flatheads were a step away from the scrap heap. No one considered rebuild. The word nostalgia was unheard of yet. Two methods of use: One is to fill that motor all the way to the top (overflow). Let it soak a week or so. Drain kero fill with cheap oil. Start the motor let it idle, warm-up work the RPM gradually up not too fast. Then drain again fill with good oil. Two is to use four qts kero in the crankcase and start motor. Let it sit at idle (no rev) for a time up to an hour. Then drain kero fill with cheap oil to flush. Run motor, drain and fill with good oil. I'm sure some may take offense to such abuse. My apologies, I just believe you'd rather not have to tear it down right away. I welcome ANY comments or criticism. We have many professionals here to shoot this down, or perhaps lend it some credibility. Thanks for the time. __________________ Enjoy yer day. Tom Hate can't fix what it started.

11-17-2014, 06:28 PM	#9
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: No Compression On The Merc Kerosene or coal oil were favorite cures for a lot of things. Maybe because there were not a lot of other choices. Drained oil was saved for other uses. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

11-17-2014, 07:15 PM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: No Compression On The Merc When I purchased my 2nd 1951 Merc several years back, it had a few stuck valves. After I pulled the heads I found a burned piston with broken rings so I was kinda glad I did that rather than flogging that poor cylinder to death trying to run the poor thing. If the motor is in the car, your all set to pull the heads. If you take it out, it will be even harder to get those bolts out after that many years. You just have to pray you don't twist any off. I managed to get all mine out and it hadn't been apart since 1963. All it will cost you is a top end set of gaskets and you will be able to see most of what might be ailing it after 30 years. You will be able to get to the exhaust valves easier. The intakes you can pour full of ATF & acetone mix to free them up.

11-17-2014, 07:29 PM	#12
RalphG Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sask. Canada Posts: 2,424	Re: No Compression On The Merc This Merc engine had work done on it shortly before it was parked. New pistons and rings, not sure what about the valves but I don't think there is anything wrong other than valves sticking. I've thought of the kerosene idea too. Just pour some in the oil filler and would that not get to where it needs to un-stick the valves?. Actually diesel fuel is much more readily available and might give similar results. I don't think I have ever seen "MMO" here either. Its a little cool out there right now but I might pull the plugs tomorrow and investigate a little further if weather permits. Working outdoors on an engine in Sask. at this time of year is not a pleasant experience but I'm hoping to do a little. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/roosty6/videos

11-17-2014, 08:39 PM	#13
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: No Compression On The Merc Assuming all valves up, pull the carb, and flood the intake with your favorite mix...I still the the heads will have to come off to do some "tapping" on the valves..so why not save a gallon or two and pull the heads now? Just my .02

11-17-2014, 09:35 PM	#15
Tony, NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Capital of Corruption , NY Posts: 811	Re: No Compression On The Merc I think it's a bad idea to try to start it now. Pull the intake and do a visual on the valves. See if they are stuck open or if some type of damage was done. Go from there.

11-17-2014, 09:59 PM	#16
RalphG Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sask. Canada Posts: 2,424	Re: No Compression On The Merc I really don't want to open that engine up unless it is absolutely necessary. It would mean having to get new gaskets to re-assemble. A gallon or two of diesel fuel is far cheaper and less trouble than new head and manifold gaskets. I had good luck on the 39 freeing up a couple of exhaust valves so I am going to see if my luck holds out on this engine. I don't see how the timing gear could have broken being parked for 30 some years but I will open the dist. cap to make sure the rotor turns. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/roosty6/videos

11-17-2014, 11:30 PM	#17
Mike B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oakdale,Ca Posts: 1,323	Re: No Compression On The Merc Thing is, if the valves are stuck open, what ever crud is up on the stem, may not get "dieseled up", to allow the spring pressure to get them moving...just my thoughts. But sitting 30 years...mice nest's etc...I'd be inclined to spend 35 or 40 dollars in gaskets, just to see what was inside. Besides, diesel is for running my tractor, and shop heater

11-18-2014, 01:23 AM	#18
supereal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Re: No Compression On The Merc Don't put kerosene or any solvent in the crankcase. It is impossible to drain all of it out, and if it gets into bearings, big trouble. For old engines, drop the pan and scrape all the sludge, and clean the oil pump screen. If you are set on using kerosene, use it to wash out the pan debris, then wipe it clean. Most old Fords that haven't run for years have the valve chamber full of sludge. Remove the intake manifold to wipe out as much as you can without scraping, to reduce particles. Fill the crankcase with Shell Rotella oil, remove the spark plugs and crank the engine for a few minutes to circulate the oil. Replace the plugs and proceed to try to start it. It may require a few squirts of starting fluid to get it going. After running the engine for at least an hour or two, drain the oil amd refill with regular oil. With some luck, you may have revived a long dormant engine. If one or more valves stick, they will have to come out. The valve and guide assemblies, with the springs, require attention to restore dependabilty. Be sure to tag each one so they can be returned to their position, and preserve the lash. Many old engines are destroyed by just putting in fuel and trying to start.

11-18-2014, 06:42 AM	#19
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: No Compression On The Merc Just pulled this 59A apart and yes it did rotate. Last edited by 4tford; 08-05-2020 at 08:02 AM.

11-18-2014, 06:53 AM	#20
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: No Compression On The Merc I agree with cmbrucew...A little mmo in each cylinder should give you some compression. Especially if a recent build (if your sure of that?) If you crank it after putting the oil in be sure that the plugs are at least back where they belong...Open plug holes=sprayed mmo everywhere . Don't ask how I know.