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Old 11-08-2021, 08:12 AM   #1
rockfla
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Default New to painting questions

Is there OR should I be concerned with "compatibility" issues between different brands of Epoxy primers? AND to further my question, should I be concerned with brands and further top coat applications??


Thanks
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Old 11-08-2021, 06:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: New to painting questions

I keep it all in the family. Although things may play well with each other now, who's to predict if they will get along years from now.
Why take a chance?
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Stick with one manufacturer.
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Nope, talk to Southern Polylurethanes https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Are you buying from a local paint shop or the internet? If from a paint shop they should be able to give you the best information about start to finish paint.



I'd agree to use the same manufactures for all phases. Timing and Prep is just as important.
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: New to painting questions

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If you are thinking of using old left over stuff of different makers, don't. Get all new products that are fresh and meant to work with each other. That said, I ALWAYS shoot a coat of sealer before the color to get the whole project one uniform color before the final. The sealer I use comes in several colors from dark to light.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Maybe I should clarify my question? I am helping my best friend with his first car that he ever bought. It was "supposedly" completely media blasted and "primed" in epoxy primer as seen in the picture. I am helping him do some sheet metal repairs from an accident back in 1970 and some fair to poor repairs already done and want to make sure WE treat the first coats of primer the correct way. SO I will find out what brand of primer was used and stick with that!!!
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File Type: jpg PhilsJeepster1.jpg (92.7 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg PhilsJeepster2.jpg (47.0 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg PhilsJeepster3.jpg (42.6 KB, 88 views)
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Old 11-09-2021, 08:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Is that a Willys Jeepster?
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: New to painting questions

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Is that a Willys Jeepster?
Yes, 1950!!!
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:34 AM   #10
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Yes, 1950!!!
Nice, I like those. There was one at the Moonshine Festival in Dawsonville, GA a couple years back with a flathead swapped in.
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Zax40
MOST choose an S-10 for either the running gear swap OR for the whole chassis and running gear......This one is going back "bone stock" with the 4cyl with overdrive, moves it along just fine!!! A flathead would be interesting BUT I would "think" the in line 6 (of the day) would be just as good IF not better!!!
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: New to painting questions

If you are new to this you may not know that ALL bare metal needs to be etched as step 1. Rust is iron oxide. Immediately after making shiny bare metal with a grinder or sander, the oxygen in the air will start the process. Metal etch is a substance that turns the iron oxide into Iron sulfate which is inert and stops the oxidation process. If you don't do this step, eventually you will get pimples from rust show up in your final coat that you worked so hard to achieve. You can buy this stuff at Home Depot (Metal prep and etch) for about $12/gallon or you can buy essentially the same chemicals at the Automotive paint store for $40-60/gal. Since it is an acid read and follow ALL directions.
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:45 PM   #13
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If you are new to this you may not know that ALL bare metal needs to be etched as step 1. Rust is iron oxide. Immediately after making shiny bare metal with a grinder or sander, the oxygen in the air will start the process. Metal etch is a substance that turns the iron oxide into Iron sulfate which is inert and stops the oxidation process. If you don't do this step, eventually you will get pimples from rust show up in your final coat that you worked so hard to achieve. You can buy this stuff at Home Depot (Metal prep and etch) for about $12/gallon or you can buy essentially the same chemicals at the Automotive paint store for $40-60/gal. Since it is an acid read and follow ALL directions.
I would assume that "Ospho" is the same type of product? Once I weld in new patch panels and or fill small holes, I will treat with Ospho for 24 hours or less, then clean with surface prep, then re-prime until ready to start blocking the whole body!!
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: New to painting questions

rocfla,
Yes, the phosphoric acid in Ospho (I looked it up) would turn the iron oxide into iron phosphate which would be protective. There are many etching agents that will do the job.
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Old 11-10-2021, 10:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Remember to sand the entire vehicle before applying the next paint stage (high build filler primer, color, etc). Epoxy (all paints) have a maximum spray/cure window of time to go onto the next stage of paint, it maximizes adherence of the layers. If your sealer has been on longer then the time allotted for the desired next stage of paint. Sand it to give it some bite.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Yeah, like Tinker reminded ALWAYS READ ALL THE DIRECTIONS. The sealer I shoot you only wait 15-20 minutes then shoot your color. Primers and color all have specific flash times to wait before the next coat depending on the current temperature and activator used.
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Old 11-10-2021, 11:28 PM   #17
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Nice work Rockfla. I maybe have an old perspective of the differences of sealers and primers. Sealers are more and more substitutes of primers. We all remember the guy in the 80s running around with a brown primer car thinking it was protected from the weather.

There is a difference in the name between a sealer and a primer. It's just a name, what is in a name. You can put a primer on a sealer, just not vise-versa. Well you could.

I'm not a paint guru, only painted a couple cars and they are holding up. All I remember was spray, sand, spray, sand... repeat...


If you can't identify the brand of sealer, you will probably be fine using a good brand sealer to blend it in. I don't think blasting the whole vehicle will be necessary. Maybe just light sand the area you are spraying with the new epoxy.


Look forward to updates.

Last edited by Tinker; 11-10-2021 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 11-12-2021, 11:07 AM   #18
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Just to clarify, 50 years at the finishing end of this game.

Temper your worries a bit. The biggest enemy for the DIY finisher is thinking the job is akin to launching a space shuttle. Relax and let logic be your guide FIRST.

Worry #1, not what brand of epoxy, WHO PUT IT ON. If it wasn't mixed right and/or not left to "sweat in" for 15 min you'll have adhesion issues. They may show right away,maybe 2 months after it's painted and all the work peels back to the epoxy coat from the blaster. DON'T ASK HOW I KNOW!

Worry #2, how thick is it? Hopefully the cheap bastids only put a small amount on to preserve the bare metal. You win. Let it protect til you're ready and then sand it off as deep as reasonably can be done, meaning if there's a whisp here or there you'll be about 99.57362% assured nothing will happen.

Worry #3, listening to too many opinions of what, where, who, how, "I heard that...", "You can't do that!" and more. Finishing products have old school loyalty attached. Personally I'm all PPG, all day, all jobs. Some are stuck on Matrix (low cost) and some others get real lucky with mail order, except if you're into the job and have to get some product in a timely fashion to avoid a total restart, well that mail order gig is NOT your friend.

At the end of the day wives tales, conjecture and opinion abounds in this facet of the craft. Logic tells you that there's only so many polymers, solvents, japans and solids in the industry. Do you like Miller or Bud? Chocolate or vanilla? Frank or Dean? Does that make sense? One last thing, and most argue with me about it, I DO NOT like fillers over epoxy primers. There's solvent in everything including the evil "bondo" and I've found that they can permeate the epoxy, soften it a little, then months later on a hot day (like at a car show) rings begin to "ghost" around the repair because heat swelled up those trapped solvents. Filler over roughed metal, NOT ACID ETCHED METAL. Filler needs a mechanical bond, acid etched metal has that coating alluded to above and it can work like a parting agent and remove your fill. It's a polyester thing and I'm not enough of a chemist to give all the details. Want specifics? Just ask, I'll be glad to help. And even tho I'm PPG my product line of choice is their ShopLine stuff. About 1/2 the price or less, and I'd bet that car will never see 40hrs a week in the parking lot any time soon. Right? Enjoy the challenge.
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Old 11-12-2021, 09:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: New to painting questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER View Post
Just to clarify, 50 years at the finishing end of this game.

Temper your worries a bit. The biggest enemy for the DIY finisher is thinking the job is akin to launching a space shuttle. Relax and let logic be your guide FIRST.

Worry #1, not what brand of epoxy, WHO PUT IT ON. If it wasn't mixed right and/or not left to "sweat in" for 15 min you'll have adhesion issues. They may show right away,maybe 2 months after it's painted and all the work peels back to the epoxy coat from the blaster. DON'T ASK HOW I KNOW!

Worry #2, how thick is it? Hopefully the cheap bastids only put a small amount on to preserve the bare metal. You win. Let it protect til you're ready and then sand it off as deep as reasonably can be done, meaning if there's a whisp here or there you'll be about 99.57362% assured nothing will happen.

Worry #3, listening to too many opinions of what, where, who, how, "I heard that...", "You can't do that!" and more. Finishing products have old school loyalty attached. Personally I'm all PPG, all day, all jobs. Some are stuck on Matrix (low cost) and some others get real lucky with mail order, except if you're into the job and have to get some product in a timely fashion to avoid a total restart, well that mail order gig is NOT your friend.

At the end of the day wives tales, conjecture and opinion abounds in this facet of the craft. Logic tells you that there's only so many polymers, solvents, japans and solids in the industry. Do you like Miller or Bud? Chocolate or vanilla? Frank or Dean? Does that make sense? One last thing, and most argue with me about it, I DO NOT like fillers over epoxy primers. There's solvent in everything including the evil "bondo" and I've found that they can permeate the epoxy, soften it a little, then months later on a hot day (like at a car show) rings begin to "ghost" around the repair because heat swelled up those trapped solvents. Filler over roughed metal, NOT ACID ETCHED METAL. Filler needs a mechanical bond, acid etched metal has that coating alluded to above and it can work like a parting agent and remove your fill. It's a polyester thing and I'm not enough of a chemist to give all the details. Want specifics? Just ask, I'll be glad to help. And even tho I'm PPG my product line of choice is their ShopLine stuff. About 1/2 the price or less, and I'd bet that car will never see 40hrs a week in the parking lot any time soon. Right? Enjoy the challenge.
Brought forth here are a few very valid points to consider. There are of course, many more.
I would never consider even for a moment NOT stripping any car that came to me down to bare metal.
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