fordamatic

[jailbar Joe]

howdy all...I have been a member of this forum for a while now and have been following along absorbing all the great info you guys have....

one of my cars is a 56 fairlane Victoria and the auto is not playing the game...I have contacted a repairer that is conversant with these boxes in regards an overhaul
now I just have to remove it and deliver to him....now the fun bit...
I plan on removing the box on it's own from underneath and have been advised about the cross member being a problem....my plan is to cut the member and make it a removable piece...no problem so far ?? is there any other pitfalls I am not aware of that will bite my backside ??

also the motor is tired but goes allright and the plan was to do all this when I finish my currant project,but I want to keep the car mobile at the moment
I have a motor out of a 55 f100 that I plan on rebuilding and then when the time comes do a switch ....other than the sump and timing cover is there anything else that will need to be swapped

sorry for the long winded questions and I appreciate all or any replies
thank you in advance

cheers joe

[darrell]

as far is the engine goes thats all you need to change but its only a 239 if original.

[dmsfrr]

Just my 2¢ worth.....
If you cut the cross member and make it a DIY bolt-in part there will always be extra unwanted flex in the frame, not a good thing.

Confirm which engines you have by checking their block casting numbers, at this link.
http://ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm
A '55 F100 y-block could be a 239, not really worth rebuilding, if you can even find parts.
A '56 Fairlane y-block should(?) be at least a 272, and of the two current choices you seem to have, the better one to rebuild.

IMHO it's easier to remove the engine & trans together and separate them when out of the car, rather than doing it from underneath. Reinstalling the trans from underneath can be even more of a problem.

The engine oil dipstick & its tube will need to be changed to match the oil pan.

.

[CarlG]

RE: Pulling the engine & tranny together - - -

I know we are talking 2 different vehicles, but on my '71 F100, I spent about 8 hours trying to get the tranny out the bottom. I was about to throw in the towel when I decided to just pull the engine with the tranny attached. Had every thing sitting on the floor in 25 minutes. New tranny was standing by, so in less than another hour, I had everything put back together and drove it home.

[darrell]

its been awile since ive been under one but ive never heard of antbody cutting anything.

[Daves55Sedan]

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I have a '55 Fairlane sedan and a '55 Courier sedan delivery both with Ford-O-Matics. I have removed the trans from both a couple times each in the past. I can tell you that if you raise the front of the car enough, use a rolling floor jack under the trans, you will barely have enough clearance to back the input shaft out of the converter bellhousing, lower the trans while inching the trans forward so your rear extension housing won't get caught on the floor of the car. Once you lower enough while tilting down and inching forward, the top of the Fordomatic case will clear the bottom of the bellhousing. It can be done.

[jailbar Joe]

thanks for the quick responses guys.suppose I should have stated that I am in Australia.
the motor in the fairlane is a 272 and according to the vin it should be a 292...which is part of the reason I am going in the direction I am....hoping to find a 292 to rebuild and use,but otherwise it will be a 272

the motor in the f truck I believe is also a 272....pretty sure over this side of the world we did not get the 239...BUT...I have been wrong once before in fact until I got on this site I had not heard of a 239

my car came out of Idaho and other than the wheels is pretty much original (except motor) still left hand drive

and I luv driving it.

many thanks for replies
joe

[frank long island]

nice looking car

[darrell]

i hate to burst your bubble but the 239 was used in canadian trucks in 55 and some went to australia.you can tell by looking at the crankshaft damper if its solid without any rubber like later ones its a 239.

[dmsfrr]

That's a beautiful car!

To find which engines you actually have, look for the block casting number at the top rear of the block next to the hole for the distributor, or just above the freeze plug above the oil filter.
The letters before the '6015' will tell you what the engine is.

http://yblockguy.com/identify_y-block.htm

.

[jailbar Joe]

thanks frank long island....I agree
dmsfrr thanks for that info..i just checked the numbers on the block and I have a 6 on top of the letters ECG and 01 under it...appears to be a 272

Darrell you were partly right the damper on the ffront is solid as you state for a 239
as I said...I believed it to be a 272 and had never heard of a 239 up till joining this site really don't know who to ask if we got that motor over here as the last of the sidevalves for us was 1954 and the first overheads were the 55.

we never got the 54 with the overhead valve....so naturally thought all our overheaqd valves were 272's

many thanks for sharing your knowledge
joe

[mikhett]

I have always pulled them together.

[Jay in Mass]

Don't cut the crossmember. IMO that's a mistake.

[jailbar Joe]

thanks guys will definitely try to do it with out cutting anything....with the size oof the frame...I doubt it would hurt as more modern cars with a lesser frame have drop out g/box cross members and do not seem to suffer from it....but as stated will leave that one as an absolute last resort,if needed.
at this point in time pulling motor for a rebuild is not an option hence the auto rebuild on it's own.

thanks for all the info and help..much appreciated.
joe

[jailbar Joe]

one more question ...is the pic I posted to big ??????
photo bucket and I don't seem to see eye to eye

cheers joe

[LOWRIDER]

As a 18yr old I converted my 56 CV from an automatic to a standard and don't recall cutting anything.

[CrownVic55]

Years ago, I swapped a 292 and standard tranny into my 55 Crown Vic which had a 272 and air cooled auto. The 292 was in a 56 Town Sedan. In both cases, the rear cross member for the transmission mount was a bolt-in item, 3 bolts on each side. Since both cars had been purchased new that had to be the factory method. Is your cross member welded to frame instead of bolted?

[40 Deluxe]

Be sure to take the bell housing and converter out with the trans. Do not unbolt the trans from the bell housing. This way you only have to move the trans back enough to clear the flex plate-maybe an inch and half or so. If you separate the trans from the bell housing, you have to pull the trans back about 5 or 6 inches to clear the input shaft. Makes it a lot harder. Plus, about impossible to get back together.

[jailbar Joe]

thanks guys...to be honest have not had a chance to look underneath as yet.....just going on info from the tranny expert.
hoping to get the car in the air during the next week and see just what the go is.....the preference is to not chop or change anything I don't have to
will let you know how I get on

cheers joe

[streetdreams]

Every '55 and '56 Ford I've been under has had a bolt in cross member. As mentioned above, 3 bolts on each side.

[dmsfrr]

With something pretty important like the frame cross bracing, if it's welded in I'm inclined to leave it like the engineers designed it. I don't have all those fancy certificates on my wall like they do.

Although I don't mind beefing things up, and am considering adding straps to the bottom of my '55 T-Bird frame like Ford did to strengthen the '56 Birds. If they thought it was a good idea I could too.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

With something pretty important like the frame cross bracing, if it's welded in I'm inclined to leave it like the engineers designed it. I don't have all those fancy certificates on my wall like they do.

Although I don't mind beefing things up, and am considering adding straps to the bottom of my '55 T-Bird frame like Ford did to strengthen the '56 Birds. If they thought it was a good idea I could too.

It won't be welded in! I've done dozens of those transmissions as a Ford dealership mechanic. Not difficult at all if you've got a transmission jack.
Bill

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

It won't be welded in! I've done dozens of those transmissions as a Ford dealership mechanic. Not difficult at all if you've got a transmission jack.
Bill

The cross bracing under the transmission in a '55/'57 T-Bird is welded in. (photo below)
And in the original post in this thread the owner said the cross member in his car wasn't removable without cutting it out.

[darrell]

bbroksr was a ford mechanic.who are you going to listen to.theirs nothing to cut.period.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The cross bracing under the transmission in a '55/'57 T-Bird is welded in. (photo below)
And in the original post in this thread the owner said the cross member in his car wasn't removable without cutting it out.

He's not working on a T-Bird.
Bill

[dmsfrr]

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Originally Posted by darrell

bbroksr was a ford mechanic.who are you going to listen to.theirs nothing to cut.period.

What's the big deal?
It obvious to me that Ford made vehicles with and without removable cross members, that may or may not prevent removal of the transmission. It all depends on the year and model.
If it's a bolt in part by all means use it. If it's welded in I believe it's best left that way if you're only trying to remove & re-install the transmission. If you're modifying the car for something else, go for it.

Originally Posted by bbrocksr

He's not working on a T-Bird.

And it's not a '71 F100 either, but if the owner/person working on the car in question says it isn't a bolt-in part, what other cars do or don't have doesn't matter.
.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

What's the big deal?
It obvious to me that Ford made vehicles with and without removable cross members, that may or may not prevent removal of the transmission. It all depends on the year and model.
If it's a bolt in part by all means use it. If it's welded in I believe it's best left that way if you're only trying to remove & re-install the transmission. If you're modifying the car for something else, go for it.

And it's not a '71 F100 either, but if the owner/person working on the car in question says it isn't a bolt-in part, what other cars do or don't have doesn't matter.
.

Then I guess what a 55-57 T-Bird has doesn't matter.
Bill

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by Sid

The cross member on a 55-56 Ford where the mount is located is a bolt in as stated earlier. Problem is that the way the frame is designed it has cross bracing behind the bolt in cross member and that is not designed to be removed. It makes it impossible to pull the trans out and lower straight down as you do with later Ford.

But it can be removed by tipping the front down first.
Bill

[wex65]

'Dont know if this help...55 Ford frames, X and box style. Both rear mount crossmembers are removable (I removed the crossmember in the wife's 55 Tbird just last night). But in both instances there is further framework rearward which is not removable.

The second image should cover the Victoria. From experience I can confirm removing the trans alone is very difficult on the Tbird and the Victoria is probably similar. The process on the TBird involves partially dismantling the trans prior to removal.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

...And it's not a '71 F100 either, ....

Sorry, should have kept my mouth shut.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Sorry, should have kept my mouth shut.

Me too, all I said was... don't cut out welded parts of the frame just to get the trans out.

Ya can't win some days.
Sorry.

[jailbar Joe]

whoa there,i say whoa there Nellie....no need for anyone to get hot and bothered.
as I stated at the beginning a lot of knowledgeable folks on here and everyone has a valid opinion.we do need to remember it's only a hobby...and a very enjoyable one at that
today I am going to try to get the Vicky up on the hoist and have a look see and if time permits I will have a go at removing tranny.
wex65 thanks for that frame schematic gives me an idea of what to look for and whereto look
remember guys be cool be happy
cheers joe

[jailbar Joe]

well guys have had a very fun couple of days...not only did I get my car up on the hoist but now have the tranny sitting on the deck...
firstly there is a removable crossmember the the rear g/box mount attaches too

but as you can see the extension housing extends some 6 inches beyond that over another non removable one....I think this is the one that I was told to cut...boy would have made life a lot easier

the flex plate just needing undoing

it's out..rejoice ...getting the top 2 b/housing bolts out was a drama..was surprised that the box only has 4 bolts attaching it..expected at least 6

and here is the offender...just needs a good bath and rebuild.....
whoever put this car together must have had a drum of odd nuts and bolts and used whatever he could find...everything was mismatched and even metric...now the fun of cleaning up underneath and sorting out some proper nuts and bolts.....I have a funny feeling I will be taking the motor out to reunite everythiong...but that's for another day and now it's back to prepping my other car for paint...thanks for looking and the help.

cheers joe

[wex65]

Good job. That frame does indeed look identical to the second image I posted above. Glad to hear you were able to remove it without doing anything drastic.

I took mine for a total rebuild a few months back. Reversed the truck up outside their shop. One of them, a younger guy, stepped forward to quickly lift it out of the bed before I could stop him. I think he thought it was aluminum and was ready for a MUCH lighter lift, boy did he ever get a shock. I saw him try to lift and the trans didn't move an inch. The other laughed at him, they knew. 230 pounds or so from memory. He then DID lift it (red in the face and puffing) to prove a point.

All the clutches were a mess/burnt. I will be firing it and the rebuilt motor up in the next couple of weeks.

Best of luck with your rebuild.

[jailbar Joe]

thanks wex65 your pic was a good help....230 pounds..who woulda thought....I woulda said 230 tons.

hope the fire up and drive goes well for you.

cheers joe

[Paul H]

The two top bell housing bolts are actually very easy to remove or replace.Inside the car,pull the carpet/mat back on the tunnel area and you'll find two rubber plugs.Remove the plugs and use an extension and socket through the holes to work on the bolts.

[jailbar Joe]

paul that is some very good info....wish I knew it last Friday

I did have a look to see if the holes were there and to my joy ...they were so looks like the box can be reunited with the motor from underneath again
what a clever idea on mr fords part...many thanks

cheers joe

[jailbar Joe]

good news guys..got my box back today....big hole in the pocket...but that's what cars do to you.
apparently the box was completely stuffed inside and the ring gear on the converter was crap as well.....but all looks a thing of beauty now....gave it all a coat of paint to help keep clean....will take some pics at installation time.
when I ordered a new g/box mount I also got some new core plugs as one was rusted out and a oil filter adapter to take the z9 spin on filters....has anybody done one of these ???

[jailbar Joe]

hi guys back again with some good news and some not so good news

this is where I left off with the tranny just removed..yuck....so far good...

and here is the same beast all fixed up and looking good with a coat of paint to make it easier to keep clean..still good news
now for the bad news bit.....because I work mainly on my own when there is nobody around to help and a lack of equipment...the only way to get the box back in was to cut the crossmember as previously discussed....it was a last resort,with safety in mind.
before any cutting I took a lot of measurements and then did the deed.....with the centre out of the way I found that nothing had changed,no movement whatsoever....thankfully

same thiong but from otherside....used 3 bolts either side

and from further forward....in hind sight I feel that I should have done this right from the start.....making the whole deal so much easier and safer for someone like myself that works mainly solo and don't like asking for help unless absolutely necessary....would have like to doit with out the surgery but was not to be.
now I just have to wait to get a kickdown rod as the car never had one from when I got it.....I have found one but it is in Melbourne,3000 miles away....I have a bellcrank just got to wait for the rod now.
thanks for looking

cheers joe

[jailbar Joe]

hi guys back again with some good news and some not so good news

this is where I left off with the tranny just removed..yuck....so far good...

and here is the same beast all fixed up and looking good with a coat of paint to make it easier to keep clean..still good news
now for the bad news bit.....because I work mainly on my own when there is nobody around to help and a lack of equipment...the only way to get the box back in was to cut the crossmember as previously discussed....it was a last resort,with safety in mind.
before any cutting I took a lot of measurements and then did the deed.....with the centre out of the way I found that nothing had changed,no movement whatsoever....thankfully

same thiong but from otherside....used 3 bolts either side

and from further forward....in hind sight I feel that I should have done this right from the start.....making the whole deal so much easier and safer for someone like myself that works mainly solo and don't like asking for help unless absolutely necessary....would have like to doit with out the surgery but was not to be.
now I just have to wait to get a kickdown rod as the car never had one from when I got it.....I have found one but it is in Melbourne,3000 miles away....I have a bellcrank just got to wait for the rod now.
thanks for looking

[scicala]

Nice job on the FordOmatic .

Sal

[Crestliner2]

So just getting onto this site, I have a 52 Crestline Victoria with the Ford a Matic. I have a few questions concerning this beast of a transmission, taking into consideration that one is in good shape how reliable is the Ford A Matic? and my second question is where to get a rebuild kit for one should I eventually need to rebuild the trans. I know a C4 could be put in but I like to keep it original if possible. Currently I have a little bit of a wine coming from the trans i think? is this something that I should be concerned about or is it old age? I am using Type F trans fluid which I think is correct. Is there an additive that folks are using in these transmissions I'm not big on snake oil but thought I would ask thanks guys

[rotorwrench]

The Ford-O-Matic and Merc-O-Matic are reliable as any of the early automatic transmissions. There are still a few folks in the US that specialize in parts for them. Adds would be in Hemmings or the Early Ford V8 Club magazines.

As to oil seepage, it just depends on where it's coming from. The pan gasket is the easy source. The others like the front and rear seal & torque converter are the harder ones. Type F ATF is fine, Ford formulated it in the late 60s for metallic clutch type transmissions to minimize the chance of slippage. The original type A is not available in its original blend anyway. As long as oil isn't drooling out all over the place and only spotting the garage floor then it's up to the operator if they want to correct that.

The C4 is a very good transmission but it would need provisions for an oil cooler and of cource it would need an adapter and a vacuum line for the modulator control system. The FOM and MOM use a throttle control valve with associated linkage to control shifting. A person who runs one of these units should get the proper factory manual for maintenance and adjustment if nothing else. Anyone that can do a good job of overhaul on hydraulic transmissions in general should be able to work on an FOM but they will need those Ford publications to get them in the right spot. These units aren't like any modern units and many techs have never seen one before. Some one with experience on them would know all the quirks and adjustments to correct for that.

If its still shifting in all three forward gear selections and reverse then that's a good thing. If it shifts too soft & mushy or too fast & harsh then the pressure should be tested and the TV control adjusted to get it right.

Don't be skittish about starting a new thread. These old threads just keep getting longer if folks add on to them.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The Ford-O-Matic and Merc-O-Matic are reliable as any of the early automatic transmissions. There are still a few folks in the US that specialize in parts for them. Adds would be in Hemmings or the Early Ford V8 Club magazines.

As to oil seepage, it just depends on where it's coming from. The pan gasket is the easy source. The others like the front and rear seal & torque converter are the harder ones. Type F ATF is fine, Ford formulated it in the late 60s for metallic clutch type transmissions to minimize the chance of slippage. The original type A is not available in its original blend anyway. As long as oil isn't drooling out all over the place and only spotting the garage floor then it's up to the operator if they want to correct that.

The C4 is a very good transmission but it would need provisions for an oil cooler and of cource it would need an adapter and a vacuum line for the modulator control system. The FOM and MOM use a throttle control valve with associated linkage to control shifting. A person who runs one of these units should get the proper factory manual for maintenance and adjustment if nothing else. Anyone that can do a good job of overhaul on hydraulic transmissions in general should be able to work on an FOM but they will need those Ford publications to get them in the right spot. These units aren't like any modern units and many techs have never seen one before. Some one with experience on them would know all the quirks and adjustments to correct for that.

If its still shifting in all three forward gear selections and reverse then that's a good thing. If it shifts too soft & mushy or too fast & harsh then the pressure should be tested and the TV control adjusted to get it right.

Don't be skittish about starting a new thread. These old threads just keep getting longer if folks add on to them.

Just a reminder of one quirk of this trans. It is a three speed, but normally starts out in 2nd when the lever in D position. 1st has to selected manually by putting the lever in L. It will not upshift in L so must be shifted back to D.
If I remember correctly, the first years of the FordoMatic did not kick down to 1st with full throttle but later years did. Try it on your '52 to see if it does.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by LOWRIDER

As a 18yr old I converted my 56 CV from an automatic to a standard and don't recall cutting anything.

I would love to convert my 57 Skyliner over to a 5-speed, but it's done except 2 pieces of weatherstripping. Gosh I hate to start in again. And I might add, that every time I try to hire something out; 1) it ends up costing about 3 times more than I think it should, 2) I have to take it back because something is found to be not right, 3) I end up fixing it myself because I don't trust em' to fix their screwup.

Besides, I have heard hanging that 3rd pedal in there is no fun.

[paul2748]

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I changed my 54 from a Fordo to a stick and hanging that third pedal was no big deal.

Originally Posted by Gene F

I would love to convert my 57 Skyliner over to a 5-speed, but it's done except 2 pieces of weatherstripping. Gosh I hate to start in again. And I might add, that every time I try to hire something out; 1) it ends up costing about 3 times more than I think it should, 2) I have to take it back because something is found to be not right, 3) I end up fixing it myself because I don't trust em' to fix their screwup.

Besides, I have heard hanging that 3rd pedal in there is no fun.

[Crestliner2]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Just a reminder of one quirk of this trans. It is a three speed, but normally starts out in 2nd when the lever in D position. 1st has to selected manually by putting the lever in L. It will not upshift in L so must be shifted back to D.
If I remember correctly, the first years of the FordoMatic did not kick down to 1st with full throttle but later years did. Try it on your '52 to see if it does.

your memory serves you correctly on how these girls go through the gears. My Dad told me once long ago that you can shift these manually if you know what your doing or maybe if you know how to abuse them, something about holding it in low then up to drive then back to low to hold second gear, then back to drive for high gear? anyway that was back in the days of plenty of spare parts when you blew it up. I have tried the kick down and it only goes to second on the kick down, either thats the way it suppose to work or my kick down needs adjustment. Thanks guys for the feedback. Can anybody recommend and good Dodge/Plymouth flathead six forum hope thats not sacrilegious! on a Ford site.

[rotorwrench]

The go to transmission replacements seem to be the later AOD transmission if an automatic is favored but the conversion kits are up there in price to do it.

The guys that likely know the Chrysler flat 6 are the ones that play with the old Sherman tanks that had the Chrysler Multi-Bank engines in them. They had five 250.6 engines grafted together into one engine.

Chrysler made a butt load of different flat six engines over the years. They used them clear up until 1959 or so. There are bound to be some computer savy internet surfers that are into the old Mopar flat sixes.

[KULTULZ]

Let's see ...

L for LEAP
D for DRAG
N for GEORGIA OVERDRIVE
R for RACE
P for PURSUIT (use only if RACE slows her down).

That's the way I remember it ...

[5851a]

New for 1955 Speed trigger fordomatic drive.

[KULTULZ]

Operating the SINGLE-RANGE FORD-O-MATIC here -

http://oldcarmanualproject.com/manua...Page13_jpg.htm

1956 FORD OWNERS MANUAL - Look @ PAGES 13-15

[down-the-road]

Originally Posted by Crestliner2

Can anybody recommend and good Dodge/Plymouth flathead six forum hope thats not sacrilegious! on a Ford site.

Check in at this site: "The forums of P15-D24.Com, Mopar cars and trucks from mid 1930s to late 1950s"

I found some helpful information there.

[KULTULZ]

- F/M MAXIMUM ACCELERATION METHOD -

TAKE-OFF IN LOW ...

Hold in LOW until desired RPM is reached ...

Move shift lever to DRIVE for 2nd gear and pull back down into LOW ...

This will hold the trans in 2nd gear ...

Move lever to DRIVE once desired RPM is reached.

[delco1946]

Kultulz - does this only work in early fordos that dont kickdown by gassing it? if i touch the gas in low it drops me in to first. The only way i can "drive" in second while in low if i was going fast in drive, downshift to Low and then coast (really only used when descending hills).

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by delco1946

Kultulz - does this only work in early fordos that dont kickdown by gassing it? if i touch the gas in low it drops me in to first. The only way i can "drive" in second while in low if i was going fast in drive, downshift to Low and then coast (really only used when descending hills).

As far as I know, all FM's would start in 1st gear if the throttle was at WOT at START (depending on correct TV ROD ADJ).

The 1950-54 FM was a joint design/manufactured by BW and FOMOCO so there is probably a lot that I am not aware of with those model years. 1955/1960 was FORD design specific.

The above description was how to use for maximum acceleration on street/track.

As for downshifting, you are correct. On a down
grade you would pull the lever into L to slow and control vehicle speed and the trans would go into 2nd gear. As the vehicle slowed and the road speed and RPM was at a certain point, it would go into first (with selector lever still in LOW).

All of this depends on proper adjustment(s) and calibration of the trans being used.

[Gene F]

Well before I put the tri-power on my 57, (had a 2BBL) if I floored it from the start it would upshift twice. I have not tried it since I put the tri-power on the thing. Guess maybe I should some time.

[55blacktie]

My 1988 Mustang 5.0/w AOD held 2nd the same way as my 55 Fordomatic. Once the transmission goes into 2nd, you have to quickly downshift to L/1st. The AOD, however, does start out in L/1st, unlike the Fordomatic. Like the Fordomatic, the AOD does not have a vacuum modulator valve.