Carb float valve

[Vic in E-TN]

I have had a hard time getting my Tudor to run. I was sure it was electrical but it turned out to be the carburator float valve and the replacement carb float valve. They both had the valves with the balls inside. The valves stuck, one open and the other one closed. I have used 100% gas for years. After taking the valves out of the carbs, they needed to be soaked in solvent to loosen them up. I hesitate to use them again. Are the needle type valves better? Are they available? Does anyone use solvent in the gasoline to avoid problems?


Your thoughts are appreciated.


Vic

[Brentwood Bob]

I think the grose-jet valves have a tendency to jam in the seat as you found.
On one carb I made the mistake of tapping the ball into the seat. I thought it needed to be encouraged to seat. That little tap was too much. Hard to correct that.
Never did that again, and been suspicious of the ball valves ever since.

[old ugly]

viton tipped needle and seat is probably the way to go nowadays.
but they are not without problems in themselves.
i just finished installing one, the float height will need to be shimmed using a kit of needle/seat washers.
also the one i received had some really fine brass inside and would not seal. i had to take it apart and clean it. while i had it apart i used a q-tip with some rubbing compound to polish up the seat.
after all that the thing works like charm.

you should read this
http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...loat-Valve.pdf

[CT Jack]

I too have had problems with float valves and probably have tried them all. My A is a late 31 which has an indented firewall. This Ford better idea places the gas shut off valve on the engine side of the firewall which requires opening the hood to turn off the gas line. A real pain especially when you leave the car in the garage or park on a friends asphalt driveway and forget to turn off the fuel and the float valve leaks.
I have been thinking about this leaking valve problem which may not always be the fault of the valve. I know as many others that the leaky valve problem sometimes goes away for a while after removing the lower bowl and actuating the float a few times. I have also cleared the problem by simply starting the engine and shutting it off or wrapping on the side of the bowl.
My guess is that the float can occasionally bind where it pivots on the the small pin support. If the pin fit inside the support tube is snug or the distance across the float support tube is too close to the uprights that hold the pin, the float could possibly not completely engage with the tip of the float valve. This would cause a perfectly good valve to leak.
My plan is to carefully review the float support and the pin fit on my carburetor, improve the fit where necessary, and monitor the leaking problem.

[Big hammer]

A divit in the float where the needle touches can be the cause of leaking! I changed the float and no more leaks for me ( 5-6 months now) !

[old ugly]

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Originally Posted by CT Jack

I too have had problems with float valves and probably have tried them all. My A is a late 31 which has an indented firewall. This Ford better idea places the gas shut off valve on the engine side of the firewall which requires opening the hood to turn off the gas line. A real pain especially when you leave the car in the garage or park on a friends asphalt driveway and forget to turn off the fuel and the float valve leaks.
I have been thinking about this leaking valve problem which may not always be the fault of the valve. I know as many others that the leaky valve problem sometimes goes away for a while after removing the lower bowl and actuating the float a few times. I have also cleared the problem by simply starting the engine and shutting it off or wrapping on the side of the bowl.
My guess is that the float can occasionally bind where it pivots on the the small pin support. If the pin fit inside the support tube is snug or the distance across the float support tube is too close to the uprights that hold the pin, the float could possibly not completely engage with the tip of the float valve. This would cause a perfectly good valve to leak.
My plan is to carefully review the float support and the pin fit on my carburetor, improve the fit where necessary, and monitor the leaking problem.

there is so many variables involved in stopping the drip/leak.
i spent 4 days on one carb before i found why it dripped.

sometimes the float valve and float level valve can be working properly and the carb will still leak. the main and cap jets can leak letting gas run out of the throat of the carb.
i had jets that leaked around what appeared to be a seam.

the float can look good and not leak/sink, it will go up and down properly. but will still not work properly.
i have changed float valves to find the leak does not change. what had happened is, the point at which the needle contacts the top of the float had worn a small impression, i carefully sanded it smooth then polished that area. this lets the needle find its own location to rise properly into the seat.
another thing, if someone has bent that float to try to change the level it may not be pushing the needle up straight.

these are only a few things. i suspect the list is endless.

what I'm saying is some of these fixes are not an afternoon fix. some take a lot of testing and trial and error, be prepared to fail numerous times.

in a previous post i posted a pic of my test stand which helps so much in finding problems.

tom endy has a few good articles on carbs. you should read through.

the key is patients. lots of observation. lots of testing and don't assume things are correct, check.

one more thing i'll say, which many may say is not true.
THAT CARB SHOULD NOT LEAK once it has been repaired.

[Patrick L.]

Any float valve can have problems, but, most are pretty good.
I like the Grose valve. I also prefer the steel needle over the viton tip as many have been having issues with shavings as Old Ugly mentioned and with ethanol eating the tips on the older ones.
The float tip needs to be smooth with any valve. If there is a worn dimple in the arm it can usually be sanded smooth.
With any fuel I recommend running the carburetor dry when storing the vehicle for any length of time.

[Oldgearz]

Running 1/4 cup of MMO per tank of gas may help keep those ball valves clean.

[Vic in E-TN]

Last week I called Bratton's and wanted 2 viton tipped needle valves. They said that they were out and said they thought the other suppliers were also out. I called Snyders and ordered 2. They arrived a few days later. I took one apart and carefully inspected the internals. There were no brass chips. Now I need to read up on how to set the float dimension. Where are the instructions?


Vic

[old ugly]

Originally Posted by Vic in E-TN

Last week I called Bratton's and wanted 2 viton tipped needle valves. They said that they were out and said they thought the other suppliers were also out. I called Snyders and ordered 2. They arrived a few days later. I took one apart and carefully inspected the internals. There were no brass chips. Now I need to read up on how to set the float dimension. Where are the instructions?


Vic

manuals say to set the float height at 1" from the bowl flange to the ring on the float, just as the float touches the seated needle.

the better more accurate way is to set the float with a clear drinking glass or jar attached to the top part of the carb.

why? because you can see exactly where the fuel level is and then ad or subtract washers to make the fuel level correct. 5/8" from the flange. you can also see if it is sealing and actually shutting off the gas. you can see if your washers are sealing. if the fuel continues to rise to higher than 5/8" fix it.

[old ugly]

here is what i do.
you can do it too with an elastic holding the glass to the carb . i used to

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311676

[Bob Bidonde]

This is the technique I use to set the gasoline level in a carburetor. It has not failed me in 60 years of tinkering with Model A's. This technique avoids gasoline leakage out of the carburetor throat, stalling while coming to a stop and it gives good throttle response.

[kenparker0703]

Nice diagrams, Bob. ken

[wwirz]

Originally Posted by Vic in E-TN

Last week I called Bratton's and wanted 2 viton tipped needle valves. They said that they were out and said they thought the other suppliers were also out. I called Snyders and ordered 2. They arrived a few days later. I took one apart and carefully inspected the internals. There were no brass chips. Now I need to read up on how to set the float dimension. Where are the instructions?


Vic

Float dimensions are in the Les Andrews RED BOOK for float adjustment

[Lightman7]

Ok - I have a new float and new Viton valve. I've disassembled the Valve and cleaned it. It requires very little effort to seal (tested by blowing through it). I'm using the Renners Corner tube to check fuel level, so I can't see inside when I'm testing, and fuel isn't shutting off. I can't figure out for the life of me why? Do the spacer washers need permatex? Or do they seal under pressure from screwing the valve in? Any other suggestions? When I drop the bottom half of the carb, the float appears to be working. Thanks.

[Brentwood Bob]

To test the valve I blow in the fuel inlet with the float installed.

[Lightman7]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

To test the valve I blow in the fuel inlet with the float installed.

I'm not sure that this would solve my problem, as the fuel overflows, so I know something is leaking inside. I would REALLY like to know if you use permatex on the spacing washers or not.

[Brentwood Bob]

No permatex. Is machined surface for float valve grooved, pitted, or a good, flat surface.
Are the threads good, or bad? Guess the permatex would be broken down in the alcohol in the fuel. Running the fuel bowl dry at shutdown doesn't work?

[old ugly]

Lightman7

a few things i have found.

you say you had the needle out and there were no bits inside. the other thing i would do is,
-with a q-tip and a bit of rubbing compound twist the q-tip on the brass where the needle seats, just to clean it up. (i know it is new but i do that to the new ones.)
-on the top of the float where the needle rests you may see a tiny divot from years of the float going up and down. with very fine small pc of sand paper level that dimple off then polish that spot with rubbing compound. (i don't know but maybe toothpaste will work) if the new float doesnt go up straight into the seat it may leak..
-if in the past someone has bent the float to try to set the fuel level that may be an issue, not pushing the float needle up straight into the seat. in which case you would have to buy a new float.
-those new washer for the valve that you use to set the float height should be good. maybe the casting where they contact the carb may be ruff. you may be able to tighten a bit more. i have snugged that valve quite tight with some success. just don't break it.
-i have had floats with tiny leaks that will slowly sink. if that is the case you should be able to hear gas inside it. (likly not your problem.

do not put any sealer on those gaskets. it will cause you greif if it gets into the jets.

[Gene F]

I have had good luck with the grose valve