S-10 in my 1953 f-100

[flathead 53]

swap is complete, 2300 rpms at 50 mph , drop it in OD rpms go down to 1600, so far ok,

[flathead 53]

looks like no interest in this swap , I guess should post on the Hamb, or check it out on late v8 forum section ,this swap will work on any f-100 from 53/56

[Los_Control]

Was this the whole thread?



S-10 in my 1953 f-100
Sounds like you bought a chebby and put it in the bed of your Ford?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by flathead 53

looks like no interest in this swap , I guess should post on the Hamb, or check it out on late v8 forum section ,this swap will work on any f-100 from 53/56

"THIS SWAP" will only work on '53 F-100, as the others aren't FLATHEADS. Otherwise, it's a "similar" or "related" swap. I'm not sure what you want. Several others, including myself, have left comments in your OTHER thread in the "1954/later" section. With more than one inquiry/request for pictures, you have returned with NONE!

Myself, as well as a few others on this '32-'53 Forum are really into T5s, but you give no real details or pics to get excited about in your brief, low-key post. Heck, you want to see a "T5" thread that I posted about four years back, or so? Click the link below. As you'll see, there IS "T5" interest HERE....if you post something that could be called "interesting"! Click the link BELOW! DD


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...T5+TORQUE+TUBE

[flathead 53]

Yes , but borg warner is native to both ford and gm , so Im off the hook on that one

[flathead 53]

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I read your thread it is very good no question I do have pictures but have A hard time posting , just trying to share my info , no disrespect to anyone

[JSeery]

Anytime you need photos posted, just let me know, I can post them for you (as will/can V8COOPMAN). I lot of folks have a difficult time getting the hang of posting here on the Barn. It is not difficult, but does take a bit of getting accustom to. So, email me any photos you want posted: [email protected]

I also enjoy messing with the T5s.

[rotorwrench]

Was it the whole drive train or just the T5 transmission. I think this is what tilted folks. Not enough information to understand just exactly what was done.

[JSeery]

Flathead 53's photos:

[leon bee]

Some of us just didn't know what you were talking about. S-10 in your 53???

[JSeery]

More photos:

[Tinker]

I had the same question from the title. A T5 swap or transmission swaps has been around for a while.

I was asked a ton of times, in the past, if I was going to do a s10 frame swap on my 38. No thanks.
.

[flathead 53]

Thank you to JSeery, for posting the pictures of my S-10 transmission swap in my 53F-100, This was my second attempt at this swap, I also installed power steering in the truck as well as disc brakes , All else is stock , My goal was just to have A safe and driver friendly truck , Sorry to all for not being more specific ,and better detailed in my previous, post ,regarding this project

[Mart]

The f100s are a natural for a swap like this. Open driveline, no X member, plenty of room underneath.
While T5s are a popular swap in other fords, it takes a lot more to make it happen. And it can't be done in a 32 for example without heavily modifying the K member.
Glad you have your truck driving how you like it.
Mart.

[flathead 53]

So far all good ,the rear is 392.1 Im looking to change to A 354.1, first gear is A little low ,but the truck is driving nice, this swap was A little difficult ,do to the truck bell housing ,being also the rear engine mount, and being deeper then the car bell, no adapter plates were available, also I had to fab A clutch pivot bracket to mount on the transmission . see pics.

[JSeery]

Here is the truck (nice!). You can change the gears out if you want better ratios.

[flathead 53]

Thank you again Jerry, working out possible gear set change out on the dana 44, rear .

[Mart]

The S10 has a low first gear. the T5 is better with some of the other ratios available. I wouldn't change the rear end gears because first is low. you need to judge how it drives at 55-60mph. Highway cruising speeds. you also need to make a judgement on how it will drive if loaded or maybe towing. It is a truck. If it needs truck gears the 3.9s are fine if it is just a pleasure vehicle and you want it to drive like a car then yes, the taller gears might suit it.
Mart.

[JSeery]

That'll work on the rear axle, I was saying you can also change out the transmission gears to some better ratios. But a lot depends on how you use your truck. If you use it to haul any heavy loads the lower 1st gear can be an advantage. That's what the the S10 gears are, truck gears.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by flathead 53

Thank you again Jerry, working out possible gear set change out on the dana 44, rear .

That's a really nice looking truck!





While changing that REAR gear to something like a 3.54 will help with your 1st GEAR situation just a tiny LITTLE bit, it's still not going to mask the overall situation caused by that 3.50 1st GEAR. By keeping that 3.50 1st gear and changing the rear to 3.54, your OVERALL 1st GEAR ratio drops from an "extreme Granny-like" 13.72 down to a STILL very-Granny-like 12.39.

I've gotta admit that it is extremely hard to explain the significance of selecting gear ratios (or the differences between a good selection and a "not-so-good" selection) without being able to relate it to a "seat of the pants", actual driving experience. I will say that JSeery and myself have attempted (many times) to explain the virtues of the "Close Ratio" (2.95 1st gear) gear sets in the T5 transmissions, when used in a street-driven vehicle.

I realize that it is YOUR truck, and you certainly have EVERY right to equip it as you choose......especially without me trying to convince you OTHERWISE. But I just hate to think about you going to all of the work and expense of "R & R"-ing that rear axle .....and then realizing the disappointment you'll probably feel the first time you back it out of the garage for a trip around the block.

A "MORE-Normal" 1st GEAR/Rear Axle ratio combination would be something like a 2.82 1st GEAR/3.78 Rear Axle combination (that 3.78 rear is pretty close to your current 3.92). For a "seat of the pants" feel for that combination, that is the exact combination that came in the MAJORITY of 1935 through 1948 Ford passenger cars. The speed that one normally attains when winding-out 1st GEAR in one of those cars just feels "RIGHT"! And the OVERALL 1st GEAR ratio with that combination is 10.66. My point here is that by going with a transmission gear set swap to the 2.95 "close-ratio" set and keeping your 3.92 Rear End, your overall 1st gear ratio goes down to a more-tolerable 11.56, which is much closer to "optimum" than the 12.39 that you're going to end-up with by only changing the rear to a 3.54. Not only that....one must remember that phrase "close-ratio" when considering the 2.95 gear set. That means that the numerical ratios between 1st and 4th gears are much more evenly spaced, so as to keep the revs in a tighter torque band when accelerating thru the gears, than the huge ratio difference between ratios in that 3.50 gear set. Just for your information, I BELIEVE that your optimum combination would be the close-ratio (2.95 1st Gear) gear set in conjunction with a 3.54 rear gear.....which results in an overall 1st gear ratio of 10.44. You would be amazed. But I still believe that the transmission gear set change would be much more rewarding (and easier to accomplish) than your planned rear gear change. I promise that THIS is the LAST time I will suggest any of this to you in the future. I hope you'll put some serious thought into it. T5s are really cool when you realize their FULL potential. And you should remember that the OVERDRIVE ratio in one of these close ratio gear sets is .63 . DD








........

[flathead 53]

Thanks , so I am better off changing the gear set in the transmission to A 2.82 first , now it all makes sense, I will go that route.

[JSeery]

Good explanation coopman, I am a big close ratio fan for a lot of reasons. And with the T5 overdrive gears it works out even better! Also keep in mind when doing highway calculations on gearing that the rear tires play a big factor.

[flathead 53]

Also , the power steering conversion is working out well . That was worth the effort.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by flathead 53

Thanks , so I am better off changing the gear set in the transmission to A 2.82 first , now it all makes sense, I will go that route.

Well....ALMOST! That "2.82" was an example as used in many of the earlier Ford 3-speed transmissions. But as an example, it is also very close (numerically) to the 2.95 1st gear in the T5 "close-ratio" gear set.

NOTE that I keep saying "gear SET"! You can't just change the 1st gear. You must change the ENTIRE SET of gears inside the transmission....as a complete SET! Or easier still, just find a NWC V8 Camaro transmission that is in decent shape (or rebuild kit), and swap YOUR S-10 tail shaft with the Camaro tail shaft (bolt-in swap), and use your S-10 TAIL Shaft HOUSING and shifter lid (it's ALL a "bolt-together" deal)! It's not totally necessary to swap MAIN Shafts (tail shafts), but by using the S-10 main shaft, the speedometer gear lines-up with the S-10 speedo gear hole in the S-10 housing. It's a really simple swap, either way. The only thing that you will need to change is the clutch DISC, as the close-ratio gear set has the stronger 26-spline input shaft. DD

[Ol' Ron]

The early S-10 T-5 is not very strong. yes the low first gear might help a truck, BUT???? After 85/6?? they got allot stronger. Not I never thought that this forum was just for restorations. Replacing some of the components'. (within reason) to improve the safty and keeping thes old cars on the road, was the primary reason.
Grasps.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

The early S-10 T-5 is not very strong. yes the low first gear might help a truck, BUT???? After 85/6?? they got allot stronger.

SOME of those ''old wives' tales" are NOT necessarily AS true as SOME of those self-proclaimed x-perts made it sound like. If I'm not wrong, you are likely talking about the differences in "strength" between the WORLD CLASS (WC) and the earlier NON-WORLD CLASS (NWC) T5 transmissions. It's because of these types of old tales that get passed-around that the T5 is so generally mis-understood.

Right off the bat...........the Borg-Warner (now Tremec) T5 transmissions never have been what you would call a 'STRONG', or "bad-assed" transmission like we used to think of the old 4-speed Muncies. I've 'hammered' on quite a few different Muncie transmissions since the latter '60s, and I have NEVER broken one, although some luck must have been involved there-in. With that in mind, I would never 'hammer' on a T5 (today) like I did the Muncies, 'cuz a T5 just ain't built for that abuse, plus NOW....I know better. On the other hand, the "RIGHT" T5 ain't no slouch, either. A good buddy of mine ordered a new '83 Camaro with a 305 V8 (the best you could get in a Camaro in '83) with a 'close-ratio' T5....the first year a T5 was available in a Camaro. When that thing showed-up on the truck, the first thing we did was take that thing out here in the rice paddies east of Lake Houston and 'tried it out'! What a sweet-shiftin' trans, and with a 3.73 rear, it was just a sweet combination, especially with the O/D.

The point of all this is that it was still the early NWC T5 design, and we never broke it. In fact, a friend of his (non-car guy) still owns that car today (looks like Hell) and with WAAAY over 200K miles, still runs and drives....with it's original T5 still truckin'. The "right" trans, in my book, is the 'close-ratio' version. Whether or not it's a WC, or a NWC version, it makes no difference to me.

For some of the skeptics out there, there are only two main differences between WC and NWC T5s. Those differences are bearing TYPES, and the friction surfaces in the synchronizers. The gears aren't any stronger in a WC trans. And the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears do oil themselves differently between the two types, but that is because of SOME of the bearing differences.

Something that is misunderstood about ANY two similar transmissions, such as an "S-10" T5 with a 3.50 or even the 4.03 1st gear ratio....AND comparing it's TORQUE-handling capabilities with an almost identical 'close-ratio' T5 with the 2.95 1st gear ratio.....the S-10 with the huge (numerical) "torque-multiplying" 1st gear ratio is gonna self-destruct every time, considering EQUAL torque inputs. It is that torque-multiplication capability in 1st gear that literally has the gears trying to push their rotating centers APART from each other, with only the aluminum CASE itself holding the spinning gears together in mesh. In the case of the T5, ALL main cases are the same, identical case, whether for an S-10, or a V8 Camaro. The weakest part of a T5 main case is the small web of aluminum on the front face between the input shaft bearing hole and the cluster gear FRONT bearing hole. Those two shafts are always 'pushing' apart from one another when torque is applied by the engine. The interface between the engaged 1st GEAR and the CLUSTER gear is attempting to do the same thing toward the REAR of the MAIN case. The TORQUE-multiplication capability of the higher numerical 3.50 or 4.03 is trying to self-destruct the S-10 trans far more so than the Camaro.....considering EQUAL torque inputs. The fact that the V8 is likely able to put-out MORE torque than the V6 or 4-banger is a whole different set of parameters, not really having anything to do with overall TORQUE-handling capabilities of the two different gear sets. This is just one more really good reason to consider the 'close-ratio' gear set for any T5. And for just ONE more little trick, if that .63 O/D ratio afforded in the 'close-ratio' set is just too steep, like if you have a really big "rumpety-rump" camshaft that doesn't like to be 'lugged' at too low of an RPM with that .63, there is a 5th gear that is still available for a Ford T5 which ends-up yielding a .80 5th gear ratio. The only problem with that is that Chevy gear sets have 27-splines on the MAIN shaft (where that 5th gear rides), whereas Ford shafts use a 28-spline MAIN shaft. You'll have to substitute an early NWC Mustang MAIN shaft with the 28-splines to utilize that little goodie. Now THAT, folks, is a T5 for the street! And this all is yet another great feature about T5s....there is so much 'commonality' built-in that swapping parts around is almost a breeze. When treated right, they are a great, medium-duty transmission if you build one utilizing the right parts to custom-fit your situation. And MOST parts are still widely available on the interweb, and on eBay. DD







........

[Ol' Ron]

I stand corrected, I have an 87 from a Mustang in the roadster, but haven't driven it yet. My favorite box is the F-150 3 sp 3ith OD. That's in my truck.

[outlaw]

V8COOPMAN, thank you for the great explaination! I have a couple T5's here to set up & this gives me more insite to work with. Bill

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by outlaw

V8COOPMAN, thank you for the great explaination! I have a couple T5's here to set up & this gives me more insite to work with. Bill

Good to hear, and I don't mind sharing free info and gossip about these T5s. Unfortunately, the supply of T5s is already beginning to become an issue for some. Click on that HIGHLIGHTED " T5 W/TORQUE TUBE " at lower left of this post for some more T5 escapades. DD

[JSeery]

I have a LOT of experience with the Mustang T5s working with my grandson! He should work for Ford testing part reliability!! I sware that kid can break anything, but the T5s have held up fairly well under his abuse. The biggest issue I have run into is bent shifter plates. The OEM T5w do not have stops on the shifter and if you keep slamming the shifts too hard it bends the plates. A gear shifter with stops cures that issue. The other issue we have had is the clutch cables stretching. Even the Ford Motor Sports one are an issue (again I'm sure it is related to the way it is driven). Anyway, an OEM cable out performs just about any after market cable. This shouldn't be an issue on the early Ford installs because the cable is not used. There are some other weak spots (I have learned most of them the hard way), but if you really want to pound them, there are after market solutions. The Ford 5.0 we were running where in the 400hp range. A flathead is normally in the 150 to 200hp range, so torque should not be an issue. If you abuse the shifter, that can be a problem at any hp range.

[Shortbed12]

I want to install a T5 in my 1940 pickup
Still looking for one if you have any info where to buy one
Looked on EBay thanks

[JSeery]

They are getting harder to find. If money is not a big issue the new ones are the way to go IMO. Not sure if Ford Motor Sport is still selling them. If they are you can sometimes get a discount and free shipping to the dealer. But, they are the Ford bolt pattern and rear located shifter.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Shortbed12

I want to install a T5 in my 1940 pickup
Still looking for one if you have any info where to buy one
Looked on EBay thanks

"Shortbed" .....This vendor on eBay (click the link BELOW) custom-builds these T5 transmissions to your spec. BE SURE to scroll-down in his ad (the link) and read carefully everything it says in the BIG PRINT.

You haven't said anything about what type of T5 transmission that you want, nor anything to do with what type of gearing you want a T5 to come with.....GO back and re-read posts #20 & 26 above about YOU GOTTA KNOW what type of gearing you WANT in your T5, or you just might end-up HATING your new T5.

So, try to note something about your vehicle's build, and something about how you expect to use the truck. Your selection of gearing can either MAKE it a dream, or BREAK the deal and make you hate your truck. LINK BELOW, or ITEM # 324697027304 ! DD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32469702730...zdb0025g600004

.

[JSeery]

Fairly good pricing.