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Old 10-11-2021, 05:06 PM   #141
JCAllison
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
JC, usually on this vintage it is a poor ground or poor contact within the socket. Metal housings and sockets.
Hey Mr. K., have this morning acquired a NEW Brake Light Switch, two 1157 Bulbs, and two 2357 Bulbs. Installed the NEW Brake Light Switch, and got nothing. So NOW... Am waiting for the evening when it is not so bright out, and am going to:
1. Use a Diamond Dremel Tool to scratch up the inside of the Fittings that go onto the Brake Light Switch.
2. Crimp the Fittings a little to make them fit a bit tighter.
3. Use a Jumper Wire to connect the two fittings together to see if the Brake Light come on.
4. Check between the Brake Light Switch Terminals with the Brake Pedal depressed to see it there is continuity.
5. Put everything back together and see if depressing the Brake Pedal will light the Brake Lights.

Once the Brake Light Problem is solved, am going to:
1. Take the Lenses out of the Tail Lights, and see what the arrangement of the Bulbs is.
2. Try changing out the Bulbs that dimly light when the Headlights are turned on.
3. Try the NEW 1157s to see if they will be brighter. If they are fine, can just put the Tail Light Assemblies back together.
4. If they are not bright enough will try putting in the 2357s.
Quote:
You had me worried there ...
Don't worry about me. I'm fine.
Quote:
FORGOT - Some years ago, there was a flood of CHI-COM 1157 bulbs that had poor contacts.
Will see if the NEW Bulbs acquired this morning are any better.

The trepidation that I have is that Ms. American's Wiring is old and fragile. Am hoping that nothing get broken. Am not very good with wiring and electricity.

It's not that hot here today, but it is 1000% humidity, and just being outside makes one sopping wet with sweat that won't evaporate. The saving grace of all this is that there is almost three weeks left to get this all sorted out.

Anyway, hope this finds YOU doing well. Take care. Stay safe.

JCAllison
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Old 10-11-2021, 05:58 PM   #142
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
JC, usually on this vintage it is a poor ground or poor contact within the socket. Metal housings and sockets.
Hey Mr K., Will check all this tomorrow.

But there's GOOD news! Did all that was planned to do and STILL the Brake Lights wouldn't come on. As a last resort, Got in, and pumped on the Brake Pedal a bunch of times, then set the Brake Pedal ON, and checked the Tail Lights. The Brake Lights were ON!!!!!

So packed up all the tools, and came in. Have to go take my medications, and can rest easy for the remainder of the day. Will check tomorrow morning to see if everything still works. At least we now know that everything is functional. Now if we can just get it all to function ALL the time.

Isn't this fun you guys?

JCAllison
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Old 10-12-2021, 11:50 AM   #143
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Hey Mr. K., and All, went out this morning to see if the Brake Lights still worked. THEY DID NOT!!!

That was just the start of a patience trying morning.

Checked the Brake Light Switch for continuity with the Brake Pedal depressed. Got an OPEN circuit. Brake Light Switch wasn't working.

Next thing that needed to be ascertained was: Do the Brake Lights still work.

Made a procedural error in doing this.

Had a Jumper Wire to put between the Brake Light Wire Fittings.

The procedural error was that the Quick Disconnect Switch hadn't been deactivated. As a result, one of the Jumper Wire Clips hit a Ground Source, and blew the Brake Light Fuse (Buss SFE14).

So what to do NOW?

Checked in the Ford Shop Manual, found the Fuse Panel. The Brake Light Fuse is the third one from the top on the Driver's Side of the Panel.

Checked the supply of Fuses here, and didn't have a single one that would fit.

But not to fret... The third fuse from the top on the Passengers Side of the Panel is also a Buss SFE14. It protects the Heater. Am not needing to use the Heater, so swapped out the blown Fuse with the Heater's Fuse and we're back to where we were when this morning's activity started.

The next thing that was done was to order a supply of fuses from Amazon Prime which should be her next Thursday.

Now... About the Brake Light Switch not having continuity when the Brake Pedal is depressed. It appears to be a faulty switch, but it worked last evening. Did the pumping on the Brake Pedal routine again, but it didn't help. The Switch is non functionaltoast.

Fortunately, when getting the Brake Light Switch, got TWO of them.

Am going to install the Second Brake Light Switch, and see if it works. Have done some research on this problem, and it seems to be ubiquitous.

Are there any little tricks, or tips that might help?

It seems that there should be some way to bleed the Switch, but there's no instructions on how to do so in the Shop Manual, nor on any of the Forums, and in looking at the Part, there isn't any way to do any bleeding.

If the second Brake Light Switch does what the first one did, then we have a problem.

There has been mention on the Forums that a Harley Davidson Brake Light Switch will fit, but it has Spade Terminals instead of the kind of Terminals on the Stock Type Switch.

It's not very hot her today, but it is uber-humid. Am taking a break, and will go out to install the Second Brake Light Switch. If it works, will then see if the Dim Tail Light Problem can be solved.

Will let you all know what happens. Take care everyone, stay safe.

JCAllison
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Old 10-12-2021, 12:32 PM   #144
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Arrow Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Quote:
There has been mention on the Forums that a Harley Davidson Brake Light Switch will fit, but it has Spade Terminals instead of the kind of Terminals on the Stock Type Switch.
Correct, the HD switch has blades rather than pins. Here is what you need -

https://www.inlinetube.com/products/bs04

Present day replacements are junk.
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Old 10-12-2021, 01:45 PM   #145
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
Here is what you need -
https://www.inlinetube.com/products/bs04
Present day replacements are junk.
Hey Mr. K., installed the other Standard Brand SLS27 Brake Light Switch, and it doesn't work either! Can push the Brake Pedal past as far as it will go, and test the Terminals for continuity, and get nothing but an open circuit.

What are the chances that TWO brand new Switches are both non-functional?

Thought that maybe filling the Switch with Hydraulic Fluid before installing might help. Tried that to no avail.

The thought occurs to me that there is something else going on here, but can't for the life of me figure out what it is.

Is the Brake Light Switch that you posted of higher quality? It is exactly like what was gotten at O'Reilly's. But have never had you lead me astray, so will order one of what you recommended.

This has really gotten me flummoxed.

Such is life.

Take care. Stay safe.

JCAllison
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:02 PM   #146
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Post Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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You have good hydraulic pressure and full of fluid?

When you remove the two contacts and use a jumper wire the lamps should come on. One lead should always be hot, even with the key off. If not possibly a bad bulb contact/socket(s)? Your directional signals work?

That switch shown requires much less hydraulic pressure to operate it. STANDARD is (was) a good brand. Do you see a COUNTRY of ORIGIN on the box?

It MAY be that the BRAKE LAMP SW CIRCUIT is routed through the turn signal switch (to break the lamp during braking and turning). Do you have a wiring schematic?

Check for power first at switch lead and fuse holder.
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:57 PM   #147
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

That is strange. You know there is power to the switch. The probability of three switches being bad is almost nil. I know it would be highly improbable, but I wonder if the passage to the brake light switch is blocked. That could be checked by removing the switch and press the brake pedal. Two people should be available, one to press the pedal and the other to observe for flow. A heavy stream should flow, not a dribble. If flow is observed, the pedal should not be released until the switch is replaced to avoid drawing air into the system.

Air could be purged by leaving the switch loose and pressing the brake until air bubbles turn to steady fluid seepage. Hold the pedal down and tighten the switch.

Last edited by 40cpe; 10-12-2021 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:12 PM   #148
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
You have good hydraulic pressure and full of fluid?
YES. 1" of Brake Pedal travel will skid all four wheels. Reservoir is full.
Quote:
When you remove the two contacts and use a jumper wire the lamps should come on.
This is what happens. AND the Turn Signals work, so the Wiring is good.
Quote:
One lead should always be hot, even with the key off.
Right. That's what blew the Fuse. Should have disconnected the Quick Disconnect Switch on the Battery before connecting the Jumper Wire
Quote:
If not possibly a bad bulb contact/socket(s)?
NO. Everything works as advertised with the Jumper Wire in place.
Quote:
Your directional signals work?
YES. Perfectly.
Quote:
That switch shown requires much less hydraulic pressure to operate it. STANDARD is (was) a good brand. Do you see a COUNTRY of ORIGIN on the box?
Made in Mexico!
Quote:
It MAY be that the BRAKE LAMP SW CIRCUIT is routed through the turn signal switch (to break the lamp during braking and turning).
It is. The Brake Lamp Circuit goes through the Turn Signal Switch, and is turned OFF when the Turn Signal Light is ON. It then turns ON when the Turn Signal Light is OFF. The other Brake Light stays on when the Turn Signal is functioning. EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD BE.
Quote:
Do you have a wiring schematic?
Yes. It is in the Ford/Mercury Shop Manual. There is nothing wrong with the Wiring.
Quote:
Check for power first at switch lead
It has full Battery Voltage
Quote:
and fuse holder.
It has full Battery Voltage

Mr. K., everything is exactly as it should be, except for the Standard Brand Brake Light Switch. The Brakes Work. The Master Cylinder obviously works. The Brake Light Circuit Works when the Jumper Wire is in place. The Turn Signal Circuit Works. The Turn Signal Flasher Works. The only problem is that when I push on the Brake Pedal, the Brake Light Switch doesn't turn the Brake Lights ON. But it DID last evening, but NOT this morning.

Have ordered TWO of the Brake Light Switches that you recommended. They are on their way, or at least in the process of being on the way. Two of them plus shipping came to $37.50.

QUESTION: Does the Master Cylinder do anything other than just pressurize the Brake Lines? The reason I ask is because in the Shop Manual, there is an exploded view of the Master Cylinder Assembly. It shows a Valve Seat, and Check Valve in the forward end of the Cylinder. I don't know what those two parts do. This particular Master Cylinder was gotten from NAPA not all that long ago. It has never been opened, taken apart, or anything.

It was just installed along with a total NEW Brake System.

All four Brakes were rebuilt. NEW Wheel Cylinders, NEW Brake Shoes, NEW Brake Hardware, and NEW Brake Lines were installed. Everything has been functioning wondrously since then. Pedal is rock solid at about 1" Travel.

By all reasoning, the culprit in this malfunction is the Brake Light Switch. BUT it doesn't stand to reason that TWO BRAND NEW Brake Light Switches would malfunction one right after the other. If the NEW Switches that you recommended arrive and do not function properly, where else should we look for the problem?

Anyway, this has been the first time that replacing a Brake Light Switch has been a problem. Am quite thorough at diagnosing the system. Everything is exactly as it should be. Am resigned to the reality that the Brake Light Switches are the problem. It just seems so improbable that two of them failed to work right out of the box.

OR, it could be that Ms. American is just messing with me because she enjoys my company and attention. You know how women are!!!

Stay safe. Take care.

JCAllison
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Old 10-12-2021, 04:02 PM   #149
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by 40cpe View Post
That is strange.
Hey Mr. 40, Isn't it though?
Quote:
You know there is power to the switch.
YES, enough to blow a Fuse this morning
Quote:
The probability of three switches being bad is almost nil.
Have to agree. It just doesn't make sense if it were not for the word "Mexico".
Quote:
I know it would be highly improbable, but I wonder if the passage to the brake light switch is blocked.
Have considered that too. Were that the case, then why did the System work last evening?
Quote:
That could be checked by removing the switch and press the brake pedal. Two people should be available, one to press the pedal and the other to observe for flow. A heavy stream should flow, not a dribble. If flow is observed, the pedal should not be released until the switch is replaced to avoid drawing air into the system.
Well, that presents a problem. There is no second person here. I live alone, and have been living a bubble life for the past twenty-three years due to health issues. All my friends have either moved away or passed away. I have no friends because the health issues have precluded my getting out and about.
Quote:
Air could be purged by leaving the switch loose and pressing the brake until air bubbles turn to steady fluid seepage. Hold the pedal down and tighten the switch.
Yes. But here again the problem of there not being a second person rears its ugly head.

BUT in thinking about it, there MIGHT be a way to check this. To wit: When the Switch is removed, there is a bare minimum of Brake Fluid that slowly seeps out. It might be possible to take the Switch out, and with a piece of wire, probe down into the threaded port where the Switch goes to see if there is any obstruction. Shoot me down if you think that that is not feasible.

Anyway, everything will work out when it's supposed to. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Hope this finds you doing well. Take care. Stay safe.

JCAllison
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Old 10-12-2021, 05:23 PM   #150
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Hey Mr. K., or anyone, Quick Question: What are the Fittings that connect to the Brake Light Switch Terminals OFFICIALLY called?

JCAllison
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Old 10-12-2021, 06:28 PM   #151
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Post Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Quote:
Hey Mr. K., or anyone, Quick Question: What are the Fittings that connect to the Brake Light Switch Terminals OFFICIALLY called?
Terminals ... Do they fit the switch pins tightly?

Quote:
QUESTION: Does the Master Cylinder do anything other than just pressurize the Brake Lines? The reason I ask is because in the Shop Manual, there is an exploded view of the Master Cylinder Assembly. It shows a Valve Seat, and Check Valve in the forward end of the Cylinder. I don't know what those two parts do. This particular Master Cylinder was gotten from NAPA not all that long ago. It has never been opened, taken apart, or anything.
That is the RESIDUAL PRESSURE VALVE JC.

You know, a bit of trash in the fluid might be the culprit. How clear is the fluid?

You know what else, there may be a bubble trapped under the switch as mentioned. You would need two people though, one to depress the pedal while the other barley cracks the switch and see what comes out. With the pedal about halfway depressed, have him/her/it/mutant hold the pedal stationary while you tighten the switch.

Was the NAPA MC a rebuild or an aftermarket new? It appears similar to the OEM MC you took off?
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Last edited by KULTULZ; 10-12-2021 at 07:22 PM. Reason: ADD THOUGHT and MORE THOUGHT
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:18 PM   #152
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCAllison View Post
Hey Mr. K., or anyone, Quick Question: What are the Fittings that connect to the Brake Light Switch Terminals OFFICIALLY called?

JCAllison
That round, hollow female terminal is commonly referred to as a "barrel terminal".
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:27 PM   #153
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by JCAllison View Post
Have considered that too. Were that the case, then why did the System work last evening?
JCAllison
You said you had "pumped on the Brake Pedal a bunch of times" to make the brake lights come on. Maybe that forced enough fluid by to actuate the switch.
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Old 10-13-2021, 05:58 AM   #154
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Post Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCAllison View Post

What are the Fittings that connect to the Brake Light Switch Terminals OFFICIALLY called?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post

Terminals ... Do they fit the switch pins tightly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40cpe View Post

That round, hollow female terminal is commonly referred to as a "barrel terminal".
To be more concise, those terminals are referred to as a Stud Socket. They are serviced only in the original harness or as a repair socket and is shown in the referring URL below. They come with a short lead that has to be spliced into the harness lead.

- https://www.repairconnector.com/prod...-Pigtail-.html
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:46 AM   #155
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Terminals ... Do they fit the switch pins tightly?
Hey Mr. K., They go on the Switch Pins with a distinct "snap". Just to make sure, the Female Fittings were given a bit of a squeeze to tighten the fit. Am not absolutely certain that they are making contact, but think that they are because two evenings ago, the Brake Lights worked.
Quote:
That is the RESIDUAL PRESSURE VALVE JC.
Will have to do some research on that to find out exactly what it does.
Quote:
You know, a bit of trash in the fluid might be the culprit.
Yes. Have given that consideration some thought.
Quote:
How clear is the fluid?
The Brake Fluid is not contaminated, but that doesn't mean that something has broken off inside the Master Cylinder and is acting as the "culprit".
Quote:
You know what else, there may be a bubble trapped under the switch as mentioned.
In doing the research into all this, came across a place that said that the Diaphragm that is pushed against the Internal Contact Points is "Air Operated". Meaning that the Hydraulic Fluid pushes the Air, which pushes the Diaphragm. So there IS a "Bubble" involved, but THAT shouldn't negate the Switch function. Remember, it was reported that some Brake Fluid was put into one of the NEW Switches and then installed. When this was done, it was with an Eye Dropper, and the Brake Fluid was held in place with Capillary Contraction. That was an effort to eliminate the Air in the Switch.
Quote:
You would need two people though, one to depress the pedal while the other barley cracks the switch and see what comes out. With the pedal about halfway depressed, have him/her/it/mutant hold the pedal stationary while you tighten the switch.
Yes. But there isn't another him/her/it/mutant available. But in thinking about this, have come up with a scheme that will maybe allow this to be done solo.
Quote:
Was the NAPA MC a rebuild or an aftermarket new? It appears similar to the OEM MC you took off?
YES. I assumed it was NEW. It looked NEW! But what do I know?

Anyway, am going to respond to the rest of the posts, and then will do a post about what is planned to solve this problem (if it works as it is supposed to). Coming soon to a Forum near you. Watch for it.

Take care.

JCAllison
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:51 AM   #156
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by 40cpe View Post
That round, hollow female terminal is commonly referred to as a "barrel terminal".
Hey Mr. 40, the reason for wanting to know is to be able to do a proper search for them in case I have to resort to a different kind of Brake Switch without altering the Stock Arrangement so that it can be reversed back to being ORIGINAL at some future time.

Thanks for the response.

JCAllison
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Ms. American 3.14159,1964 Ford Galaxie 500,Model:64 4-Door Hardtop,Body:57B 4-Door Fastback,Police Interceptor,390 CID,330 HP,P-Code FE,Solid Lifters,Cast Iron Shorty Headers,Autolite 4100 C4AF-9510-DG Carb,Mustangs Etc.Manual Choke,3 Speed BorgWarner T85 Overdrive Transmission,4.11:1 Differential,Kelsey Hayes Severe Service Wheels,PerTronix Ignitor III HEI,60,000 Volt PerTronix FlameThrower HC Coil,Frantz Oil Cleaner,Chantilly Beige
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:56 AM   #157
JCAllison
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
To be more concise, those terminals are referred to as a Stud Socket. They are serviced only in the original harness or as a repair socket and is shown in the referring URL below. They come with a short lead that has to be spliced into the harness lead.

- https://www.repairconnector.com/prod...-Pigtail-.html
Hey Mr. K., AHA! An actual source of this doohicky thingamabob! Amazing.

So now... On to what MAY be the solution to the problem, in the next Post.

Thanks for the reference.

JCAllison
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Ms. American 3.14159,1964 Ford Galaxie 500,Model:64 4-Door Hardtop,Body:57B 4-Door Fastback,Police Interceptor,390 CID,330 HP,P-Code FE,Solid Lifters,Cast Iron Shorty Headers,Autolite 4100 C4AF-9510-DG Carb,Mustangs Etc.Manual Choke,3 Speed BorgWarner T85 Overdrive Transmission,4.11:1 Differential,Kelsey Hayes Severe Service Wheels,PerTronix Ignitor III HEI,60,000 Volt PerTronix FlameThrower HC Coil,Frantz Oil Cleaner,Chantilly Beige
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Old 10-13-2021, 11:19 AM   #158
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Hey Mssrs. K, and 40, and everyone else... Have snapped to the fact that what may be happening is that there is something blocking the pressure from going up into the Brake Light Switch. Maybe a bubble. Maybe something solid. Or something else. Don't know THAT to be an actual fact, but it is not out of the realm of possibility.

In thinking about it, the thought occurred that a Flare Fitting that would go into the Threaded Port into which the Brake Light Switch is screwed, with a Flared Tube (like a Brake Line) that would be bent in such a manner that it would go back into the Master Cylinder Reservoir under the Brake Fluid Surface, would make it possible to pump the Brake Pedal, which would cycle the Brake Fluid through the Switch Port, and back to the Reservoir without introducing any air into the Brake Line System. It would also eliminate the need for another him/her/it/mutant.

If there is something in that Circuit, it would hopefully be flushed out of where it is and into the Reservoir. If it is too big to be flushed out, then there would be a hardening of the Pedal Pressure which could then be dealt with some other way.

In doing the necessary gathering of the parts to do this, have found that a Brake Line Fitting is a PERFECT fit for the Brake Switch's Threaded Port. Have made up this item, and have but to go out and see if what has been imagined will actually do the deed.

Was out and about this morning for Blood Tests at the Clinic, and will have to wait till Ms. American's 3.14 has cooled off.

In the meantime, if any of you foresee a problem with this agenda, shoot me down. This should be interesting. Will let you know what happens.

Take care. Stay safe.

JCAllison
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Ms. American 3.14159,1964 Ford Galaxie 500,Model:64 4-Door Hardtop,Body:57B 4-Door Fastback,Police Interceptor,390 CID,330 HP,P-Code FE,Solid Lifters,Cast Iron Shorty Headers,Autolite 4100 C4AF-9510-DG Carb,Mustangs Etc.Manual Choke,3 Speed BorgWarner T85 Overdrive Transmission,4.11:1 Differential,Kelsey Hayes Severe Service Wheels,PerTronix Ignitor III HEI,60,000 Volt PerTronix FlameThrower HC Coil,Frantz Oil Cleaner,Chantilly Beige
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Old 10-13-2021, 12:25 PM   #159
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

Could there be a compatible mechanical brake light switch assembly that mounts to the pedal hardware under the dashboard, perhaps from a following model year?

Except for getting under the dash to install it that might be a better option than more hydraulic plumbing.

An aftermarket example (for an earlier different model)...
https://www.classictbird.com/Mechanical-Brake-Lite-Switch-Kit-1-Per-car/productinfo/13480MK/

.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 10-13-2021 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 01:45 PM   #160
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Default Re: The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159 Daily Driver Diary Caper

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Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Could there be a compatible mechanical brake light switch assembly that mounts to the pedal hardware under the dashboard, perhaps from a following model year?
Hey Mr. D., the questioning about the Fittings that go onto the Hydraulic Brake Light Switch was related to EXACTLY what you are postulating.
Quote:
Except for getting under the dash to install it that might be a better option than more hydraulic plumbing.
Was not contemplating more Hydraulic Plumbing. The Hydraulic Brake and Line is a diagnostic tool to see if there is an obstruction in the Master Cylinder.
Quote:
An aftermarket example (for an earlier different model)...
https://www.classictbird.com/Mechanical-Brake-Lite-Switch-Kit-1-Per-car/productinfo/13480MK/
.
This is all quite a bit more complex than what I had in mind. There is already here a Mechanical Brake Light Switch that is from the late Lorrie Van Haul, the last 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle. For those of you who don't know about Lorrie, am attaching a JPG of how she looked in April of 2020. The second JPG is how she looked after a tornado dropped a 112 foot tall Pine Tree on her.

I miss her terribly.

JCAllison
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File Type: jpg lvhfin08.jpg (75.7 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 00LOR02.jpg (216.2 KB, 8 views)
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