4.11 rearend or a 3.78?

[PGBuick]

I've read some interesting threads about rear gear selection for the banjo rear end. Not sure which one to use since I have very little experience driving/running flatheads.

I am building a 36 coupe. Using a H&H built 1948 59AB motor. Behind that is a T5 trans with a 3.50 first gear and a 0.78 overdrive. My research indicates the original 36 3 speed trans had a 2.82 first gear, although I have not checked the transmission to verify. The 2.82 first gear with the tired 36 flathead and 4.11 rear seemed fine, if not a bit low geared.

My instinct is that the 3.78 will be fine, and maybe a lower numerical gear might be even better. However, I do have a good 3.78 gearset in hand and do not really want to pay for a new one.

I am seeking any input folks may have about gearing for my setup.

Thanks!

[Newc]

With the 5 speed, either one, but I would lean toward the 3.78 for todays' roads. Newc

[lazycarguy]

I ran a stock trans with 3.78 rear and an Olds engine. Easy at all speeds.

[Lawson Cox]

You flat out lose me with all of the transmission variables, but you can't beat the 3.54 rear end for an all roads/all speeds vehicle. I have driven over hills over vales, over many dusty trails with one, and I love 'em.

[highbeams]

Your stock EFV8= 3.78.

Yeeerz ago, the 4.11 in a half-ton pickup I bought was quickly pulled for a 3.78 that I hada purchase, but what'a differance! = instant grin. Thank you-

[cas3]

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I used 4.11's with a columbia OD and have always thought 3.78 would have been a better choice. Not to hilly here in the swamp, that would make a difference in your choice

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by PGBuick

My instinct is that the 3.78 will be fine, and maybe a lower numerical gear might be even better. However, I do have a good 3.78 gearset in hand and do not really want to pay for a new one.

I am seeking any input folks may have about gearing for my setup.

PGBuick..... You will love that 3.78. Go with it!

I LIKE Borg-Warner T5s. I wrote-up this piece BELOW some time back just to help clear-up some T5 misconceptions. They are a very versatile, medium-duty transmission. And keep in mind that your Ford 3-speed 1st gear IS likely a 2.82 as you said. The Camaro V8 CLOSE RATIO gear sets that I advocate using in the T5 has a 2.95 1st gear ratio....very close to the Ford V8 1st gear.

In my other reply, I forgot that you don;t need a torque tube or drive shaft. Don't forget that '42-'47 Ford pick-ups used an OPEN drive banjo rear end....FACTORY Ford parts! Contact Mac VanPelt for parts..... LINK & picture BELOW!

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm




Read BELOW and enjoy!
__________________________________________________ ______

The "S-10" T5....What It Is ALL ABOUT!


For anyone that is NOT TIRED (yet) of hearing me preach about T5 transmissions out of an "S-10"....here goes, one more time!

T5 transmissions are what I would call MEDIUM-DUTY transmissions, originally built by Borg-Warner and eventually bought-out by TREMEC. They were available as original equipment in over thirty different vehicle platforms over the years, including foreign makes. They are reasonably compact in size, can handle reasonable amounts of torque when driven with a little bit of respect. Their torque ratings are based on the 1st gear ratios available. Those ratios with higher NUMERIC value (like a 4.03 1st gear ratio) will be rated to handle less torque than the trans with a 2.95 or 3.35 1st gear.

The T5 basic design was clever in that ANY T5 gear set was able to be assembled inside either of two basic gear cases, commonly referred-to as having either a "GM" bolt pattern, or a "Ford" bolt pattern where they bolt-up to a bellhousing. All top-side gear covers interchange with any main case. Both MAIN cases are 9-1/4" front to back, externally. All rear, extension or TAIL housings will physically bolt onto either main case. All T5 shifters are located in their respective TAIL housings, and were positioned at several different locations, FORE & AFT on the TAIL housing, as specified by the needs of a particular vehicle manufacturer. The majority of different T5 tail housings have the shifter fixture located somewhat rearward on the respective housings. But there was ONE vehicle manufacturer that had a requirement for that shifter location to be as far FORWARD on the tail housing as possible. That manufacturer was GM, and that particular requirement was for the Chevy S-10 & GMC Sonoma pick-up trucks.

These S-10 & SONOMA extension housings were built this way to move the shifter forward in the cab of the pick-up trucks so that the shifter didn't come up through the seat, for instance. Camaro and Mustang T5s have the shifter located toward the very rear of the extension housing, and would make swapping into most modified cars (including old Fords) uncomfortable to shift with the shifter being too far to the rear for comfort. Well early-on, guys realized this and started using Chevy S-10 T5 transmissions with their swaps behind flatheads, as well as Ford and Chevy engine swaps. But S-10s were fitted with wimpy 4-cylinders as well as anemic V6 engines. As such, the transmissions came with either 4.03 or 3.76 FIRST gear ratios. Off the bat, there goes the torque rating out the window, even for a flathead. Secondly, that low of a 1st gear ratio is essentially going to make your first gear seem like a "GRANNY" gear, essentially useless unless you're building a 'parade car'.

So, with the ability to swap a T5 tail housing (with forward shifter) onto your V8 Camaro transmission with a 2.95 FIRST gear, you get the absolute best of both worlds. The ONLY pieces which are REALISTICALLY worthy of using from an S-10 transmission is the tail housing, the shifter lid which contains the short, S-10 shift rod, as well as the S-10 main shaft. The S-10 MAIN shaft is completely swappable with a Camaro main shaft (both being NWC) so that the Camaro shaft does not need to be modified for the speedo drive gear to line-up correctly.

So, my suggestion is to take the time to swap the S-10 parts onto a NWC V8 Camaro trans for the ultimate package with no disappointments.

Coop


Just for grins, a SHORTENED T5 that we built to hook-up to a Ford torque tube.

[Ol' Ron]

As Coopman explains it, using the T-5 with the stock rear can be quite expensive, but makes a nice installation. I don't know where you live so can;t answer your question, I have a 280ci stock cam engine in my truck with a T-170 trans and it will climb any hill in Vermont with 3.73 gears. I stopped using stock ford rear ends 75 years ago. Rather than spending the money on modifying the trans, why not install a more modern rear axle and use any trans you want.
Gramps

[Ken/Alabama]

I’ve got a 3:55 gear behind my T5 in my 40. Love it.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

As Coopman explains it, using the T-5 with the stock rear can be quite expensive, but makes a nice installation.

Ol' Ron ...... I don't believe he is planning to bolt to his torque tube. I THINK he's going with a STOCK-ish full T5 with an open drive shaft.

Coop

BIG LETTERS for Ol' Ron's eyes!

.

[Krylon32]

Almost all of the chassis I sold over the years that involved a Flathead with a T5 I sold them with a 3.78 rear gear. Most used a 29-30 inch tall tire. This combination has proven to work well. I've also sold over 200 rebuilt T-5 trans with the dreaded 3.76 first gear and the .72 OD. 99% of my customers have been satisfied not only with the trans but with my T5 conversion kit. These 80's early 90's S10 trans are beginning to get scarce. I've been selling some of the kits to fit the 93 up trans with the Ford front pattern but I don't like them as well as the earlier trans.

[V8COOPMAN]

.

A better picture of thee '42-'47 pick-up open drive rear end.

Coop

[flathead 53]

I put A t-5 in my 53 f-100 with A merc flathead and A 392.1 rear , the t-5 had A 350 first gear , with the 392 rear was not that good , I then went to A 9" rear with 350.1 rear gears and 28" tires the truck now is A great driver

[blucar]

Historically a factory equipped vehicle with an OD trans will have a rear end ratio about one gear set lower than a non OD equipped vehicle.
My '36 has a well built 59AB, '47-48 Merc column shift trans and a '47-48 Columbia rear end that has a 3.78 ratio..

The '36 originally came with the Columbia, I converted it from the early style to the '47-48 because it was a better option.
When the original owner of my car opted to have a Columbia under it, it would have been a dealer installed option, the 3.78 ratio probably never was considered.
My '36 was a little slow compared to other early Fords of the era when I first bought it, that all changed when I put the built up 59AB in the car.
Of course when we were young teenagers we had very little knowledge about gear ratio's, we ran what we had.

[Ol' Ron]

Thanks Coop, I need that. The reason I don't like the ford drive train is: When I got out of the service in early 56, the Flathead was already dead, but I still loved it, but the street racers were using the Olds engine, 324ci and getting bigger every year. So we ran a flathead in the stock car and the olds at the drag strip and the flathead trans and rear end just couldn't handle the the power. Yet my street engines were mostly stock Flatheads, lack of funds and allot of Babies.
Gramps

[PGBuick]

Great info from all. Thank you!
This project budget demands that I utilize what I have already rather than spending more $. The 3.78 gearset from the 42 is installed with all new, or good used bearings, and should run fine. I'm almost to the point of sourcing a driveshaft as soon as I get the open drive pinion setup all assembled, and the front radius rod attachment and a torque arm to compensate for the lack of torque tube. Slow and steady progress....