New Eddie Myers’s heads question

[john greco]

Has any body check there squish with these heads ? 59 ab , bored .030 Ross pistons , merc 4 in crank , and I have .085 squish with no head gasket , best head gasket measures .056 , seems way to much clearance to me , don’t I need like .040 total ? That would mean I need to take like .080 off heads ?? Will those heads be able to take that much off ?

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by john greco

Has any body check there squish with these heads ? 59 ab , bored .030 Ross pistons , merc 4 in crank , and I have .085 squish with no head gasket , best head gasket measures .056 , seems way to much clearance to me , don’t I need like .040 total ? That would mean I need to take like .080 off heads ?? Will those heads be able to take that much off ?

Are these original, Don Orosco reproductions or something else?

[Ronnieroadster]

John
Question the pistons are forged Ross standard bore plus and additional .030 ?
Ronnieroadster

[Bored&Stroked]

Squish: For a street engine you'll want .040 to .045 squish (with head-gasket one).

Are you sure you have the right pistons for the crankshaft compression height?

How about posting a picture of the block/deck with a piston at TDC and also a picture of the chambers on the heads. You definitely don't want to have that amount of clearance over the pistons - so let's figure out what is wrong before you do anything. Also, how did you measure the squish?

[cadillac512]

What you really need to know is how far down in the cylinder the outside edge of the piston is at tdc. If that's very far down you'll never get the quench (squish) correct. A few thous. above the deck is better.

[Bored&Stroked]

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Originally Posted by cadillac512

What you really need to know is how far down in the cylinder the outside edge of the piston is at tdc. If that's very far down you'll never get the quench (squish) correct. A few thous. above the deck is better.

Yes - that is the whole reason I mock-up a block with the crankshaft a rod and a piston pin at TDC - to figure out exactly what the compression height needs to be - then order my pistons from Ross to match. I've found this is the best way to achieve the exact quench/squish I want.

[34fordy]

I remember back in the 1960s when a guy saw a pair of aluminum heads that he liked he bought them. Then he went to the parts store to get a set of head gaskets. Probably bought what the parts guy told him was best. He installed the heads without any knowledge of "squish". He was so proud of his cool looking engine. The engine ran well and he was happy. Is this scenario not possible anymore for the average guy? Do we all need to measure squish for an old stocker engine to run good enough for weekend drives?

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by 34fordy

I remember back in the 1960s when a guy saw a pair of aluminum heads that he liked he bought them. Then he went to the parts store to get a set of head gaskets. Probably bought what the parts guy told him was best. He installed the heads without any knowledge of "squish". He was so proud of his cool looking engine. The engine ran well and he was happy. Is this scenario not possible anymore for the average guy? Do we all need to measure squish for an old stocker engine to run good enough for weekend drives?

For most there's no reason to be concerned with squish. What you wrote about back in the 60's and the old days as well is still how its being done today by most people who just buy a set of heads bolt them on and go. There's really nothing wrong with doing that as long as checking for piston and valve clearance has been done prior to bolting a set of heads permanently.
Ronnieroadster

[Bored&Stroked]

I'm a bit of a perfectionist . . . can't help myself! LOL

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

For most there's no reason to be concerned with squish. What you wrote about back in the 60's and the old days as well is still how its being done today by most people who just buy a set of heads bolt them on and go. There's really nothing wrong with doing that as long as checking for piston and valve clearance has been done prior to bolting a set of heads permanently.
Ronnieroadster

I'm curious about what you would do after "checking for piston and valve clearance" and found, as the O/P found, you had .141" clearance over the piston. I wouldn't think to "bolt them on and go" would be the best option.

But then again, I'm a real fan of optimum quench.

[34fordy]

Originally Posted by tubman

I'm curious about what you would do after "checking for piston and valve clearance" and found, as the O/P found, you had .141" clearance over the piston. I wouldn't think to "bolt them on and go" would be the best option.

But then again, I'm a real fan of optimum quench.

You are certainly right Denny but "back in the old days" I did not know poop from putty (still don't) and probably would have installed and torqued without even checking for sufficient clearances!

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 34fordy

You are certainly right Denny but "back in the old days" I did not know poop from putty (still don't) and probably would have installed and torqued without even checking for sufficient clearances!

The reason I asked is that was what I did with a set of new Offenhauser heads (just bolt 'em on without checking) on a 276" Merc thirty years ago. I was never as satisfied with the power that engine produced as I am with the 255" Merc I now have in my '51. It didn't seem to run as well either, from what I remember.

There were a lot of things I didn't know back then, either.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by tubman

I'm curious about what you would do after "checking for piston and valve clearance" and found, as the O/P found, you had .141" clearance over the piston. I wouldn't think to "bolt them on and go" would be the best option.

But then again, I'm a real fan of optimum quench.

To answer your question its simple I would do what's needed to get the clearances where I like things.
However as I wrote checking for clearance is what most guys do to determine things clear and nothing more. If there's clearance then the heads are just bolted.

Here's a couple of questions for you Tubman. That 276 inch flathead engine you wrote about which you were never satisfied with the power it produced did you change the cam in that engine to something other than stock? If the answer is yes did you check the cam timing?
Ronnieroadster

[Ol' Ron]

I found many years ago that sometimes what you think is right just isn't. In my book is a chapter on checking compression, It's pretty much the same old measure the size of the stroke, add alittle something for the head gasket and combustion chamber volume (had to make a fixture for that) and your there?? Or are you?? I found there are too many variables. Now I just put the piston down about 1/4" slap on an old head gasket any pore in some colored windshield wiper fluid from a 20cc beaker and measure the amt. Then do the arithmetic. Makes a big difference, usually lower than you thought. Don't forget to raise the piston.
Gramps

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

To answer your question its simple I would do what's needed to get the clearances where I like things.
However as I wrote checking for clearance is what most guys do to determine things clear and nothing more. If there's clearance then the heads are just bolted.

Here's a couple of questions for you Tubman. That 276 inch flathead engine you wrote about which you were never satisfied with the power it produced did you change the cam in that engine to something other than stock? If the answer is yes did you check the cam timing?
Ronnieroadster

The engine was supposedly "professionally built" with an Iskendarian MAX-1 camshaft. I had assumed that everything was done properly. I picked up the completed short block and completed the assembly. Remember, this was thirty years ago, before the "Ford Barn" and what we know today. For what I paid, I expected the short block was done correctly.

What I don't understand is how this has changed from a legitimate discussion of head preparation to a discussion of cam timing. I did not check the cam timing or the squish in the heads; my bad. I have to assume that the cam was correctly ground and installed by a reputable builder. You can't second guess everything.

Let's remember the question posed by the O/P and not get side tracked by what may or may not have happened thirty years ago.

[john greco]

They are new orosco heads , I did get some pics but not smart enough to know how to post them , can some help here

[V8COOPMAN]

.

These are all of John's pics that I could get to post.

Coop









https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/ma...ilNorrinLaunch

[john greco]

Best I can measure is piston on edge of cylinder is .025 below the deck , thanks coopman for posting

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by john greco

Best I can measure is piston on edge of cylinder is .025 below the deck , thanks coopman for posting

John,

If that measurement is at TDC, I will defer to the experts like Ronnie, Pete, Ol' Ron and Bored & Stroke.

From the little I understand, milling the heads won't solve that. This is a piston issue.

[Ol' Ron]

I noticed my post said 20cc beaker it should be a 200 cc one or measure thr chamber and use a 20cc beaker.
I think???
Gramps