The Ford Barn

Tim Ayers · 05-03-2020, 04:02 PM

Still fooling with and trying to figure out the best way to do the rear brakes on my '40 rear.

The rear currently has '42-'48 style brakes & hubs on it. I'm intrigued by the MT Products/Boling Bros. '40-style drums they sell since they slide off and don't require the hub to come off.

For this option, I was test fitting some of '40-style rear hubs that I have. One of them did not have the drum attached. While testing fitting this hub, it slide deep enough on to the axle housing that the hub wouldn't get pulled off by the little puller I have.

This got me thinking, does the inside lip of the drum act like a "stop" or is it the splined keyway that stops the hub from going further? The drum doesn't make sense for it would act like a brake while rubbing on the backing plate.

If it matters, the grease seal was not in the hub that I test fit. Not sure if that factors into it.

Reason I ask, is I want to have all the parts correct and ready to roll before I start the brake project.

Thanks,

Mart · 05-03-2020, 04:05 PM

The drum should be clear of the axle and backing plate.
can't say why the puller won't reach but it is nothing to do with the lack of a drum.
The hub is free floating relative to the axle casing, it is positioned axially purely by the fit on the taper.

FlatheadTed · 05-03-2020, 04:16 PM

The bearing end should not bottom out and you should have 90 % of the outer thred showing ,

Tim Ayers · 05-03-2020, 04:37 PM

Hmmm. That’s not a good sign that the taper of that hub is still good. Would the location of the keyway in the axle slot have any determination how far it sits on the axle stub or housing?

Meaning, if located too far forward (towards the threads), would that be a factor?

*** Edit: I switched sides and the hub when on beautifully. The axles shafts are NOS so maybe it was lapping difference?

FlatheadTed · 05-03-2020, 05:10 PM

Yes if the axle hasn't had the key way cut far enough back ,not so much the hub ,or if the key way in the hub is not deep enough ,

Tim Ayers · 05-03-2020, 05:14 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

Yes if the axle hasn't had the key way cut far enough back ,not so much the hub ,or if the key way in the hub is not deep enough ,

Makes sense now. Thank you.

I've marked them to make sure I remember which side to put it on when done with the brake machining.

PeteVS · 05-04-2020, 04:10 AM

Are you assembling things to a rear that is missing the differential pieces? Axles are kept from sliding into the housings by the geared ends hitting the spider gear piece.

Tim Ayers · 05-04-2020, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Are you assembling things to a rear that is missing the differential pieces? Axles are kept from sliding into the housings by the geared ends hitting the spider gear piece.

No. The rear is fully assembled. The axle stud is not moving inward as I place it on.

JM 35 Sedan · 05-04-2020, 06:44 AM

Tim, last summer we were working on the rear brakes of a '35 touring sedan. When we removed the axle nut and flat washer to remove the left side drum/hub assembly, it came right off with no need for a puller. The key was sheared in two pieces and the axel had been turning inside the hub/drum assembly, and we had no idea how long this had been going on. When it came time to reassemble everything, I cleaned up the tapered surface on the axle and hub, inserted a new key in the axle keyway, and installed the hub/drum assembly on the axle. It went so far onto the axle that the drum rubbed the backing plate and the the axle nut and flat washer went to the the limit of the threads w/o tightening the hub/drum in place. Long story short....the tapered diameter inside the hub had been worn away to the point the hub was basically freewheeling on the axle after the key had sheared. When I installed another known to be good hub/drum assembly, it fit normally on the axle, and we were able to torque the axel nut down to its specification. This car has been driven at least 2k miles since that repair was made. Although in the future this rear will be rebuilt with a different gear set, and that left side axle will be replaced with one that has a better tapered surface and keyway.
So,....in conclusion, I believe the taper inside your hub is wallowed out, and/or worn to the point it will need replacing.

05-03-2020, 04:02 PM	#1
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,177	It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? Still fooling with and trying to figure out the best way to do the rear brakes on my '40 rear. The rear currently has '42-'48 style brakes & hubs on it. I'm intrigued by the MT Products/Boling Bros. '40-style drums they sell since they slide off and don't require the hub to come off. For this option, I was test fitting some of '40-style rear hubs that I have. One of them did not have the drum attached. While testing fitting this hub, it slide deep enough on to the axle housing that the hub wouldn't get pulled off by the little puller I have. This got me thinking, does the inside lip of the drum act like a "stop" or is it the splined keyway that stops the hub from going further? The drum doesn't make sense for it would act like a brake while rubbing on the backing plate. If it matters, the grease seal was not in the hub that I test fit. Not sure if that factors into it. Reason I ask, is I want to have all the parts correct and ready to roll before I start the brake project. Thanks,

05-03-2020, 04:05 PM	#2
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? The drum should be clear of the axle and backing plate. can't say why the puller won't reach but it is nothing to do with the lack of a drum. The hub is free floating relative to the axle casing, it is positioned axially purely by the fit on the taper.

05-03-2020, 04:16 PM	#3
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,700	Re: It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? The bearing end should not bottom out and you should have 90 % of the outer thred showing , __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

05-03-2020, 04:37 PM	#4
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,177	Re: It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? Hmmm. That’s not a good sign that the taper of that hub is still good. Would the location of the keyway in the axle slot have any determination how far it sits on the axle stub or housing? Meaning, if located too far forward (towards the threads), would that be a factor? *** Edit: I switched sides and the hub when on beautifully. The axles shafts are NOS so maybe it was lapping difference? Last edited by Tim Ayers; 05-03-2020 at 05:12 PM.

05-03-2020, 05:10 PM	#5
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,700	Re: It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? Yes if the axle hasn't had the key way cut far enough back ,not so much the hub ,or if the key way in the hub is not deep enough , __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

05-04-2020, 04:10 AM	#7
PeteVS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: FP, NJ Posts: 2,770	Re: It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? Are you assembling things to a rear that is missing the differential pieces? Axles are kept from sliding into the housings by the geared ends hitting the spider gear piece. __________________ Don't never get rid of nuthin!

05-04-2020, 06:44 AM	#9
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: It is possible for a hub w/o a drum to slide on too far to axle housing? Tim, last summer we were working on the rear brakes of a '35 touring sedan. When we removed the axle nut and flat washer to remove the left side drum/hub assembly, it came right off with no need for a puller. The key was sheared in two pieces and the axel had been turning inside the hub/drum assembly, and we had no idea how long this had been going on. When it came time to reassemble everything, I cleaned up the tapered surface on the axle and hub, inserted a new key in the axle keyway, and installed the hub/drum assembly on the axle. It went so far onto the axle that the drum rubbed the backing plate and the the axle nut and flat washer went to the the limit of the threads w/o tightening the hub/drum in place. Long story short....the tapered diameter inside the hub had been worn away to the point the hub was basically freewheeling on the axle after the key had sheared. When I installed another known to be good hub/drum assembly, it fit normally on the axle, and we were able to torque the axel nut down to its specification. This car has been driven at least 2k miles since that repair was made. Although in the future this rear will be rebuilt with a different gear set, and that left side axle will be replaced with one that has a better tapered surface and keyway. So,....in conclusion, I believe the taper inside your hub is wallowed out, and/or worn to the point it will need replacing. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*