Cam and Lifter failures

[dmsfrr]

Found these today at a local NAPA store, west of the Mississippi.
The black NAPA Gold filter, by Mann/Hummel, has Made in the USA on it. So far.

The white NAPA ProSelect brand has mostly the same markings, at approx half the price.
Not sure how they compare to each other technically.

The fellow behind the counter had heard the same story about a change of ownership, and more oil filters from china, less of them from better places.
.

[KULTULZ]

The world is going to hell in a hand-basket.

WIX offered a non-cellulose filter media to use with GTDI applications with SP oils.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by STEVE O

Hi KULTULZ,

Your welcome. Yes I started seeing some WIX/NAPA GOLD with the MANN/HUMMEL filters coming thru with the made in China. Then I saw NAPA sort of removed the MANN/HUMMEL on the box and all of the smaller filters are made in China.

Sorry to hijack this thread but this stuff is really alarming to me.
Steve

THANK YOU! for bringing this up. I have read a few similar discussions and now I know for certain.

Wondering, has your DEPT talked with a MOTORCRAFT REPRESENTATIVE about fleet supplies?

[Gene F]

Hmmm. Now I wonder what to use.

There is a reason why those elcheapo filters are so cheap...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Hmmm. Now I wonder what to use.

There is a reason why those elcheapo filters are so cheap...

I only use MOTORCRAFT even on current tech. I know what it is and where it comes from (PUROLATOR made to FORD SPECS). I worry much more about quality over price.

Now the problem will be not being sold counterfeit parts (EvilBay and AMAZON 3rd party sellers).

[Pete]

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You will never have a cam like the good old days as long as all of the new manufactured cores are made in chinkland.

I have been in the cam business since 1952 and now days I tell my customers I will only regrind their cam if it is an original OEM core with original numbers.

The heat treat in modern manufactured cast iron cores is so poor it is a wonder they last out the door. There are areas that are almost as hard as a diamond and right next to that will be dead soft.
No wonder they went to rollers. (and even those fail)

Re-faced lifters can go in any hole. They should have .0002 taper on the face. Check by putting 2 lifters face to face and see if you can see light along the edge.
The finish on the face should be at least 10 microinch.

[ms fowler]

Boxed up and shipped.
Surprised at the cost of US ground parcel post. $60 including $500 insurance which I hope I do not need.
Cam and lifters should be at Oregon Cam on Saturday.

[STEVE O]

Hi KULTULZ,
I agree 100% on trying to get the quality. I have not researched the Motorcraft side yet but as you stated is made by Purolator a division of MANN/HUMMELL and is a viable resource. I'm like you our assurance is in being made to Ford specs. Our later buses are running Cummins in which we have been using Fleetguard. Since the NAPA GOLD switch in our area we have filled other spots with Fleetguard which is a Cummins owned filter company with the assurance of the Fleetgaurd being held to quality. I agree things are going sour on everything.
ms fowler sure glad your able to get the MANN/HUMMEL in your area , in hopefully most part numbers will be made in the USA. Hope things go well with your cam and lifters.
Steve

[KULTULZ]

Fleetguard which is a Cummins owned filter company with the assurance of the Fleetgaurd being held to quality.

FLEETGUARD is (was) good stuff when I ran road tractors (70's - eighties), that and DONALDSON.

MOTORCRAFT has it's own customer service and will have it's own dealer network that can help with fleets. They are a part of FORD, but much easier to work with.

[KULTULZ]

This Is GOSPEL People -

Originally Posted by Pete

You will never have a cam like the good old days as long as all of the new manufactured cores are made in chinkland.

I have been in the cam business since 1952 and now days I tell my customers I will only regrind their cam if it is an original OEM core with original numbers.

The heat treat in modern manufactured cast iron cores is so poor it is a wonder they last out the door. There are areas that are almost as hard as a diamond and right next to that will be dead soft.
No wonder they went to rollers. (and even those fail)

Re-faced lifters can go in any hole. They should have .0002 taper on the face. Check by putting 2 lifters face to face and see if you can see light along the edge.The finish on the face should be at least 10 microinch.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by STEVE O

I agree 100% on trying to get the quality. I have not researched the Motorcraft side yet but as you stated is made by Purolator a division of MANN/HUMMELL

... do what ... ???

[STEVE O]

Thanks KULTULZ for the info. I will do some research as to availability in our area. We will have to keep up the good fight for quality as long as we can!

[5851a]

DONALDSON closed it plant here and sent it to Mexico 20 years ago. Maybe different filter plants for other needs.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 5851a

DONALDSON closed it plant here and sent it to Mexico 20 years ago.

... damn ...

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by Pete

You will never have a cam like the good old days as long as all of the new manufactured cores are made in chinkland.

I have been in the cam business since 1952 and now days I tell my customers I will only regrind their cam if it is an original OEM core with original numbers.

The heat treat in modern manufactured cast iron cores is so poor it is a wonder they last out the door. There are areas that are almost as hard as a diamond and right next to that will be dead soft.
No wonder they went to rollers. (and even those fail)

Re-faced lifters can go in any hole. They should have .0002 taper on the face. Check by putting 2 lifters face to face and see if you can see light along the edge.
The finish on the face should be at least 10 microinch.

Pete, is that correct? Two tenths isn't much taper, and is pretty darn near flat. I'm used to seeing and grinding .001-.0015 on more modern flat tappets. I use a Sunnen tappet grinder.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by cadillac512

Pete, is that correct? Two tenths isn't much taper, and is pretty darn near flat. I'm used to seeing and grinding .001-.0015 on more modern flat tappets. I use a Sunnen tappet grinder.

Back in the dim past when there were new lifters available from Ford and we decided to get in the lifter reconditioning business, we measured more lifters than I care to remember and the taper was .0002.

I don't think the way you are doing them will hurt anything. The taper on cam lobes varies all over the map these days depending on who did it.
The offset of the lifter from lobe centerline is the main thing that rotates the lifter.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

That explains why I have seen some WIX PRODUCT MADE IN CHINA.

THANX!

Seems to be a little more severe than I realized -

https://autocareaids.com/who-makes-wix-oil-filters/

https://autocareaids.com/who-makes-m...t-oil-filters/

https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles...helpful-guide/

[miker98038]

The offshore manufacturing is is mixed bag for me. Many of those companies/countries have proven they can make fine products, right along side the junk. To me, it’s a matter of quality control by the company ordering, and allowing the engineers to overrule the accountants. Then putting trusted personnel in charge of the quality control inspections.

Based on their background, an old line German firm gives me a better feeling.

(I’m ignoring the current mess a certain aircraft manufacturer is in, in my backyard, in the town I was born in.)

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by miker98038

The offshore manufacturing is is mixed bag for me. Many of those companies/countries have proven they can make fine products, right along side the junk. To me, it’s a matter of quality control by the company ordering, and allowing the engineers to overrule the accountants. Then putting trusted personnel in charge of the quality control inspections.

Based on their background, an old line German firm gives me a better feeling.

Simply put, manufacturing is world-wide now as America has lost it's way. You cannot manufacture in America, nor is there a desire.

There is quality product, there is cheap product. It matters more on concern for corporate profit rather than the consumer. Most are now monopolies. You just buy the same product but with a different label

As for Germany, they were finally beaten by the cheap to build and operate T-34.

[STEVE O]

WOW thanks KULTULZ,
This is getting terrible. Seems the few of us that does their best to use the best quality products is coming is within itself a nightmare! We have to be a detective to even come close to purchasing what we think. The motorcraft copy cats are the most concerning to me as a saleman told me some 12 years ago that the Motorcraft filters being sold at Walmart were counterfeit and to be sure there is a certain number on them to be sure they are true Motorcraft (I can't remember what number) but it was on the filters at Walmart so assumed he was wrong and forgot about it. WOW now after watching that video he may have been right. Very Very SAD!
Steve