Are Mustangs still collectible?

[Seth Swoboda]

Mustangs used to be a car that folks bought, restored and collected. It seems like unless it's a special car, fastback or related, nobody wants them. I believe the market for any of our early Fords is very soft, however.

So the question is, what about a plain old first generation mustang coupe or convertible? Are we now just throwing these cars out with the trash? It seems like you'd have to nearly give one away if you had one to sell, project or finished car. If you wanted to purchase one you'd have quite a bit of leverage on negotiating if the seller was motivated.

Thoughts?

Seth

[darrell]

rust is the worst problem.i havent seen any being given away yet.

[Dobie Gillis]

Yup, especially structural rust in the cowl area. Not the end of the world but costly to fix depending on the extent due to the unibody construction.

[Merc Cruzer]

If you are going to buy one, at least get a convertible. Find one from NM or AZ, Colorado is not bad either.

[JimNNN]

Run of the mill Mustangs may suffer a little from "Model T syndrome"; i.e., an attractive, desirable, iconic, historically significant and generally all around good car that has somewhat deflated values because they made so darn many of them. Mustangs have an advantage over the T, however, in that they're much more usable on today's roads. Based on what I've seen, Mustangs just might be restored more than any other old car - in part because of their affordability and vast numbers - but it seems that Camaros of the same vintage have a somewhat higher value, even the plain jane models.

I actually don't know much about Mustangs, but I know the mid-60's Thunderbird I picked up a couple of years ago has a related dilemma: affordable as a vintage car, so it's easy to get into one, but it's also hard to justify putting a lot of money into one, values being what they are (even for restored cars.) But the T-Bird isn't alone in that regard within it's genre (personal luxury.) Mid-60's Buick Rivieras and Olds Toronados are also cool looking cars that don't seem to bring a bunch of money. Part of the problem with with personal luxury cars of the era is that, despite their sporty looks and big engines, they're heavy cars that really aren't designed around performance. That can't help value.

Frankly, I'm expecting to see the values of most 40's, 50's 60's and early 70's American cars start heading south...in a big way and permanently. The people who remember the era are becoming fewer and fewer. And beyond that, it seems like young people just generally don't have the interest in old things like we did when we were their age.

[34pickup]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I agree with Jim. They made a million of 'em. I think its the most common collectable car on the road. The stripped down model was cheap to buy new and they are cheaper than other cars to buy now. The limited edition models like the HiPos and fastbacks will cost more. But if you are looking into old cars as in investment or just make some money I don't think a common Mustang is going to make it. Fairlanes seem to bring good money if in good shape.
Thats my thoughts.

[Marcus]

Seth - the answer to your question has several facets: as others have pointed out, and you surmised, the market is somewhat soft right now - and not just for "collectibles." In particular the Mustang world is filled with "Mustang nuts" (I am one, having "cut my teeth on Mustangs" and campaigned a blown '67 fastback for years) who are constantly buying and selling. The selling market is hot, for the right car and buyer, just exactly as is the EV8 and the A Model. For the average, run of the mill car, the prices are much lower but when the car and buyer match expect to pay a premium. Couple cases in point: I sold a 1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Convertible last year, totally rust free and a very nice cosmetic refresh for $15K. It was EXACTLY what the lady was looking for, and her husband (also a Mustang nut) was only too happy to write the check. My current, nearly finished project, is a '68 Mustang Convertible, GT Clone, that is also totally rust free, and I have a standing offer of $25K. Finally, as you know, I own the Truckstang, the only Fox-bodied Mustang Pickup in existence. My custom built Mustang just completed an 8-month tour in the Mustang Owners Museum in Concord, NC to rave reviews and a number of offers (nope - staying in my collection)!
All this to say that the market is soft in some cases, not so in others. My '31 Slantwindow went to a collector in South Mississippi for $18,500, but it was an excellent example. My '29 Tudor, also excellent, sold for $11,000 and I was happy to get that much! You are correct concerning motivation: that is always a determining factor! Not throwing them out with the trash - enjoying the restoration and reselling too much.........and besides, this way Margretha always knows where I am.....grin!
Best wishes to you and the ladies of your household!

[bobss396]

I almost bought one back in 2016 for $5000. a '66 with the straight 6 and automatic. I could probably sell it with a little fixing for close to $9000 today. So, I'd say anything '69 and down with no major rust are desirable.

[Seth Swoboda]

Thanks for opining everyone. I have a '67 coupe. I've owned it for about 18 years. I did a lot of work to it, floors, torque boxes, rear quarter panels, truck drop offs, outer wheel wells on rear and of course paint. All of this after I bought it, 18 years ago. It's a 289 car , C4, factory air, power steering and deluxe brushed aluminum interior.

I have't driven it much over the course of the past 8 years. I've put some miles on it this spring and have been working on small items that need attention, all mechanical.

I was mostly curious. I live in a small town and there is only one other first generation mustang near me. I'm more into flathead V8 cars. Getting back into the Mustang has been a nice change of pace. I've never thought of any of my cars as an investment. I just enjoy working on them and driving them.

[58Yeoman]

Marcus, would love to see pix of the Truckstang.

[rotorwrench]

The ones that are harder to sell are the first generation cars with 6-cylinder drive train. Most folks know that they can't just stuff a V8 in there due to the lack of V8 structural upgrades so they go relatively cheap by comparison to the original V8 models.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The ones that are harder to sell are the first generation cars with 6-cylinder drive train. Most folks know that they can't just stuff a V8 in there due to the lack of V8 structural upgrades so they go relatively cheap by comparison to the original V8 models.

I've thought about upgrading my engine from a 289 to 351 Windsor. But then I think it's not necessary. It'd be fun though.

[bobss396]

I'd be into one with a 6 and automatic, they are nice driving cars although down on power. I had a '68 GT fastback Bullitt car for a while, factory 390, 4-speed, Detroit Locker rear, Kelsey Hayes discs up front. That was brutally fast and earned me loads of tickets.

[Marcus]

58Yeoman: check your private messages.

Seth: lots of fun to upgrade to a 351; however, larger = heavier and structural / suspension changes are necessary...... However, a blast to drive, especially out in the country where you and I live.....

Bobss396: my Bullitt tribute was powered by a Rousch 351, Tremec 5-Speed, blindingly fast but what a scream to hammer! Sorry to see it go, but when the fellow with DEEP pockets waves cash........Grin!

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by 58Yeoman

Marcus, would love to see pix of the Truckstang.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Truc...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Seth Swoboda]

What structural upgrades were on these mustangs with the factory 390 option? If a '67 will accept a 390 it should accept a 351. I also wonder how much more weight a 351 is compared to a 289? The bore is the same, longer stroke and taller deck height. Similar weight as a 289/302 if aluminum heads and intake are used?

[estout81]

In stock form 289/302 about 460# windsor 351 about 510#.

[rotorwrench]

I think all the V8 mustangs of the 1st & 2nd generation were built with the same structural reinforcements in the torque boxes but they varied by year. The heavy duty suspension was also required for GTs. The 390 likely had its own front springs for those packages. The high performance 289 package likely had similar springs to the stock V8 cars but used with the heavy duty front end package that was a part of all the GT cars.

Most of the factory stuff was still not quite up to par for racing. Most folks added their own beef up parts or they repaired stuff as the wore it out or broke it. The old 390 Mustangs could break some parts.

The 351 Windsor had a really nice set of main bearings for a small block. It made for a heavier crankshaft and block. Everything was a bit beefier than the smaller engines even though some parts will interchange. The 351 C engine is almost as heavy as the 390 engine. The early 1971 400 may have been a bit heavier than the 390 in some applications but they were pretty close. Those two engines were a pretty close match too but the 400 changed not long after and became a smog dog.

[Marcus]

40Cpe - Gene, thanks for posting that link; I had forgotten about it.

58Yeoman - sent email to you.

Seth - rotorwrench pretty much hit the nail on the head; when we upgrade the motor and transmission, "we youngsters" have a tendency to drive them as though stolen, hence suspension parts (which were never race grade to start with) tend to get bent and/or broken. Yes, that 351 / 390 will fit, and there are a zillion uTube videos concerning installation. All that said, don't hesitate to build what you want and drive it the same way! 2021 brings back the Mach I......and I sold my track car......

[hop up]

Early mustangs are awesome and raced and played with them as a youth. As said up grading them from a 6cy to a v8 requires many upgrades. The biggest is the brakes,springs and hubs as the 6 cy was a 4 lug . I would just hop up what you have with speed equipment. A good set of heads ,cam and a intake will wake that 289 up. I am assuming you have a c code 289 motor or maybe a A code 231hp . The K code motor would make it a valuable car and fun to drive with the solid cam and 271 HP. Those improvement on your C code would liven her up and a Paxton blower would do it as well.
While it maybe true there is no replacement for displacement and Fear starts with FE.

[ronn]

I think coupe values have dropped significantly. convertibles and fastbacks have done well.

as mentioned- 6 cylinders are the bargain out their. all good cars, but when it comes to collecting and value, has to have a v-8.

[Aarongriffey]

A few years ago I changed a 6 cylinder mustang over to 5 bolt rear end and front hubs. Also changed to V8 steering all in anticipation of changing to a V8 motor and transmission.
I am nearly finished with the rebuild on a 302 and will have him drive it to my place to change engine and transmission in the next month or so.
So are you guys that know more about mustangs saying the 6 cylinder chassis is not strong enough for a 302?

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by hop up

Early mustangs are awesome and raced and played with them as a youth. As said up grading them from a 6cy to a v8 requires many upgrades. The biggest is the brakes,springs and hubs as the 6 cy was a 4 lug . I would just hop up what you have with speed equipment. A good set of heads ,cam and a intake will wake that 289 up. I am assuming you have a c code 289 motor or maybe a A code 231hp . The K code motor would make it a valuable car and fun to drive with the solid cam and 271 HP. Those improvement on your C code would liven her up and a Paxton blower would do it as well.
While it maybe true there is no replacement for displacement and Fear starts with FE.

I'm picking up a nice 351W soon from a guy who is giving it to me. It's an early 1970's 351. I installed an aluminum 4 barrel intake, 4 barrel carburetor and long tube headers with dual exhaust years ago on my 289 C code.

I'm going to do the front power disc brake upgrade this fall. Someday I'll build that 351 as a nice warmed up street engine and install it. I'm having too much fun with this car and I supposed I'll just continue to drive and build to suit my fancy. It's not a rare model so there's not much to lose in upgrading it.

[rotorwrench]

Originally Posted by Aarongriffey

A few years ago I changed a 6 cylinder mustang over to 5 bolt rear end and front hubs. Also changed to V8 steering all in anticipation of changing to a V8 motor and transmission.
I am nearly finished with the rebuild on a 302 and will have him drive it to my place to change engine and transmission in the next month or so.
So are you guys that know more about mustangs saying the 6 cylinder chassis is not strong enough for a 302?

I don't think they reinforced the unit body for most of the Mustangs in the 1st Gen group with a possible exception of the convertible cars. They only put one torque box in the 67. It wasn't till 1968 that they finally installed the torque boxes on both sides. The pieces are available to add them to some of the first generation cars. Most folks wouldn't notice the change unless they actually did one after driving it stock for a while. It helps a lot with structural rigidity. Connecting the subframe rails together is also not a bad idea.

Updating the 1st gen types to the V8 components is enough for regular everyday driving. It's when you like to lay the hammer down a lot when you want the higher body strength. Updating the suspension for strength isn't a bad idea either but the old Falcon type parts will last under normal use.

[rooboy]

Marcus 'ol mate ..... I've lost your email.....
Rooboy................

[Marcus]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

G'day, Rooboy!! When I retired, the agreement with the State of Mississippi was that they would leave my computer email active, so that I could assist the incoming Director: some bean counter ignored that and deactivated the email, causing me to lose all my addresses and links. I lost yours as well ...... And the new Director was highly perturbed, to use acceptable language!!
My new email (nothing to do with the government!!): truckstang01@gmail(dot)com.
Send a note, Mate!!

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Seth - the answer to your question has several facets: as others have pointed out, and you surmised, the market is somewhat soft right now - and not just for "collectibles." In particular the Mustang world is filled with "Mustang nuts" (I am one, having "cut my teeth on Mustangs" and campaigned a blown '67 fastback for years) who are constantly buying and selling. The selling market is hot, for the right car and buyer, just exactly as is the EV8 and the A Model. For the average, run of the mill car, the prices are much lower but when the car and buyer match expect to pay a premium. Couple cases in point: I sold a 1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Convertible last year, totally rust free and a very nice cosmetic refresh for $15K. It was EXACTLY what the lady was looking for, and her husband (also a Mustang nut) was only too happy to write the check. My current, nearly finished project, is a '68 Mustang Convertible, GT Clone, that is also totally rust free, and I have a standing offer of $25K. Finally, as you know, I own the Truckstang, the only Fox-bodied Mustang Pickup in existence. My custom built Mustang just completed an 8-month tour in the Mustang Owners Museum in Concord, NC to rave reviews and a number of offers (nope - staying in my collection)!
All this to say that the market is soft in some cases, not so in others. My '31 Slantwindow went to a collector in South Mississippi for $18,500, but it was an excellent example. My '29 Tudor, also excellent, sold for $11,000 and I was happy to get that much! You are correct concerning motivation: that is always a determining factor! Not throwing them out with the trash - enjoying the restoration and reselling too much.........and besides, this way Margretha always knows where I am.....grin!
Best wishes to you and the ladies of your household!

One of these for sale in my current printed edition of Hemmings.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by 58Yeoman

Marcus, would love to see pix of the Truckstang.

One of these for sale in my current printed edition of Hemmings.

[craig]

A 351W or a Cleveland is a fairly easy bolt in for a '67 to '70 Mustang. You'll need a different exhaust H pipe, but the same motor mounts as the small block originally had. The perch plates from a big block are different from the small block units. The suspension is the same, I used to swap the front springs from a 390 car into the small block car when I used a Cleveland engine. I left the sb springs in on a Windsor swap because it usually ended up with aluminium heads and intake and probably came in about the same weight as a stock 302.
hop up has a better idea, leave the original engine in it. They work great and they make good power, especially with the aftermarket heads and manifolds available today

[mercman from oz]

The Truckstang, the only Fox-bodied Mustang Pickup in existence - Marcus

[frank long island]

i am in the midst of this ground up build now on a 66 convertible was a 6 now an 8 added power steering and auto green black gut was a 2 owner car but from south shore of long island also used for collage up north so rot was every where except cowl oddly enough floors rails 1/4s door skins frt door pillars drop offs im sure i forgot something pics in my profile will post more shortly

[ModelA29]

Coupes, Convertibles, Fastbacks in that order for all years. The 71-73 is starting to catch on since it's cheaper than the earlier cars.
Engine has a big effect 6, 8-2bbl, 8-4bbl, HiPo - a K in the VIN means HiPo and adds a lot to the price of the early cars. 67-8 Fastbacks are the ones that are most desirable because everyone paints them Highland Green and plays Frank Bullitt. Add Shelby, or Boss to the ad and you can ask up to 1/2 million. There will always be the holy grail cars like the Bullitt car or the prototype GT350 Competition Model that sold at the 4 million mark. People do like their Mustangs truly restored to match how it left the factory. A Marti report adds to the selling price so you can prove how it left Henry's. There is some interest in the later Fox body cars and there are some rare performance models such as the 32 valve DOHC Cobra. After 2005 they started creating some more Bullitt, Boss 302 and other performance cars. I won't call these "collectable" because too many were built but they do carry a premium price.

[highbeams]

Since 2016, I have a '68 "6" auto, Gulfstream Aqua/white vinyl roof '68 buckskin color interior. ('67 had its buckskin color) Very enjoyable in-town driving. power steering.

Power steering 'for the wife' owner said of this State-of-Washington car. same community its entire life.(built in San Jose.)

I had a '68 "6" auto, Highland Green/black vinyl roof in '68. Missed it. Thank You!