Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2018, 07:29 AM   #1
wkuehnis
Member
 
wkuehnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 59
Default Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Hi,
Today I removed mx timing gear cover.
The inside looks very strange . Its grey and like an emulsion.
So I think, there is water from the radiator in my engine oil.
Quedtion:
Where could it come from ?

Thanks
Willi
wkuehnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 07:32 AM   #2
29spcoupe
Senior Member
 
29spcoupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Rhinebeck, NY
Posts: 760
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Could be from a blown head gasket, crack in water jacket.
29spcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-24-2018, 07:43 AM   #3
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Also can be condensation build up from cold starts and short drives.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 09:09 AM   #4
wkuehnis
Member
 
wkuehnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 59
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

About head gasket: all plugs looks good and looks the same. They would look different with blown head gasket
wkuehnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 09:12 AM   #5
wkuehnis
Member
 
wkuehnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 59
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

I will try to close the water in and oulets and then try to blow air in . Maybe I will see or hear, where it leaks.
wkuehnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 11:34 AM   #6
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,004
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Also can be condensation build up from cold starts and short drives.
Ditto

Quote:
I will try to close the water in and outlets and then try to blow air in . Maybe I will see or hear, where it leaks.
I would suggest that you don't do that as you could possibly damage your radiator.

Do you run straight water? Or anti-freeze mix? If you run anti-freeze mix then I would suspect condensation, as Tom suggested.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 12:18 PM   #7
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,439
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Easy things first before you start worrying .. as Tom says in #3 first of all ,
consider other things .....
I'd change oil, and see if it happens again.
If it does re-occur take head off and change head gasket
see if it happens again, if it does then suspect possible crack etc etc
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 02:21 PM   #8
midgetracer
Senior Member
 
midgetracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bismarck ND
Posts: 1,189
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
Ditto


I would suggest that you don't do that as you could possibly damage your radiator.

Do you run straight water? Or anti-freeze mix? If you run anti-freeze mix then I would suspect condensation, as Tom suggested.
If you close the inlet and outlet, how would it affect the radiator? The radiator would be out of the circuit.
midgetracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 05:37 PM   #9
100IH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SW Idaho
Posts: 970
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Remove the drain plug in the bottom of the oil pan with a catch pan under it. don't drop the plug, just tip it to the side to let the coolant come out slowly until it stops. Coolant will be at the bottom, oil on top. This is a beginning only. and, yes, do not pressurize the radiator.
100IH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 09:13 AM   #10
wkuehnis
Member
 
wkuehnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 59
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Hi, of course, I dont presurize the radiator. I removed it. The radiator can not bring coolant into the oil.
I presurized it now, but I didn't find out anything.
Condensed water sounds good, but also the other sympthoms made me looking for a leaking in the Jackets or around the valves:
1. Oil level was suddenly higher than expected, higher than maximum.
2. Coolant level in the radiator went down.

So I am still confused,

Willi
wkuehnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 09:18 AM   #11
wkuehnis
Member
 
wkuehnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 59
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

@katy and 100ih: I dont understand: how can my coolant (wit antifreeze) come into the oil?
Thanks for any ideas
Willi
wkuehnis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 09:44 AM   #12
midgetracer
Senior Member
 
midgetracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bismarck ND
Posts: 1,189
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

An oil analysis from an oil lab can tell immediately if it is condensation or coolant leak. antifreeze in the oil will destroy babbit bearings in short order. Caterpiller dealers have oil analysis capabilities.
midgetracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 10:36 AM   #13
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,439
Smile Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkuehnis View Post
:
1. Oil level was suddenly higher than expected, higher than maximum.
2. Coolant level in the radiator went down. Willi
The sudden change makes me suspect leaking head gasket rather than condensation. So...change oil and 1) Check that cylinder head bolts are correctly torqued. If still having problems take head off, have a quick look if any obvious cracks, if it looks OK then simply put a new gasket on ( and use some sealant such as blue hylomar if you like and the instructions don't say otherwse). retorque head bolts after 20 miles and 50 miles and 100 miles ( or 30 kms 80 kms 150 kms if you prefer ) If still having problems crack test.
PS you mentioned earlier "... all plugs looks good and looks the same. They would look different with blown head gasket" If the head gasket was severely blown yes there would be other symptoms too, but if the coolant is simply "weeping" through the gasket then there may be no change at all, other than occasional misfire or hesitant starting.

Last edited by johnbuckley; 11-25-2018 at 10:57 AM.
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 11:21 AM   #14
J and M Machine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 40 Mt.Vickery Rd. Southborough,MA 508-460-0733
Posts: 352
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Hello Willi:
Two places to check is first head gasket as typically number three cylinder will go first.
Second is to remove side cover as Model A engines have weak area in valve chamber around number three cylinder and will crack and leak water into oil.
see picture.
There is a friend of ours in Aarau, Switzerland that can help you.
He is Proficient in Model A engines.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4295.JPG (49.9 KB, 111 views)
J and M Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 11:31 AM   #15
Ernie Vitucci
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 611
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Good Morning all...Years ago, I was taught that flat head engines should be re-torqued once a year, as they have a tendency to work loose and bolts can stretch and washers can collapse. All the suppliers sell a C shaped wrench to add to your torque wrench to make the job easy. They also have a chart that shows the tightening sequence if you don't have it...only takes half an hour and it is good insurance. Ernie in Arizona
Ernie Vitucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 12:46 PM   #16
DHZIEMAN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sunrise Beach, Mo
Posts: 439
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkuehnis View Post
Hi,
Today I removed mx timing gear cover.
The inside looks very strange . Its grey and like an emulsion.
So I think, there is water from the radiator in my engine oil.
Quedtion:
Where could it come from ?

Thanks
Willi
Is the engine oil in the pan milky? If not, I would venture condensation!
DHZIEMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 02:44 PM   #17
ursus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,369
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J and M Machine View Post
Hello Willi:
Two places to check is first head gasket as typically number three cylinder will go first.
Second is to remove side cover as Model A engines have weak area in valve chamber around number three cylinder and will crack and leak water into oil.
see picture.
es.
I have just the valve chamber cracks depicted by J & M Machine. A machinist said that these would be problematic for pinning as he would be drilling into the cylinder. Since there is no water pressure, could the problem possibly be fixed with the newer block sealer products such the Fiber-Lock stuff made by K & L?
ursus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 03:06 PM   #18
johnbuckley
Senior Member
 
johnbuckley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,439
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus View Post
......could the problem possibly be fixed with the newer block sealer products such the Fiber-Lock stuff made by K & L?
Certainly worth a try! ( Reminds me of a 1950s book "Overlanding with Annabelle"- they had a cracked block in a Chevrolet truck and put in "Chemiweld" (whatever that was!) and successfully drove round Australia without any problems.
johnbuckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 03:49 PM   #19
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,471
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbuckley View Post
Certainly worth a try! ( Reminds me of a 1950s book "Overlanding with Annabelle"- they had a cracked block in a Chevrolet truck and put in "Chemiweld" (whatever that was!) and successfully drove round Australia without any problems.
Chemiweld uses sodium silicate to seal. It is a local product and is still available. It works wonders. I don't have a bottle of it at the moment but it is added to the cooling system with the motor warm and running after a good flush.
I have absolutely no reason to doubt that after using it, they were able to drive around the country and I bet the engine still running well for a long time after. It has been about here for decades and stories of miraculous "workshop in a can" feats are numerous.Here is a link to the manufacturers descrption:
http://www.goss.com.au/assets/Upload...nformation.pdf

I'm sure other sodium silicate products will work just as well. One of them might help out our original poster.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 07:17 PM   #20
abachman3
Senior Member
 
abachman3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Western Springs, IL
Posts: 323
Default Re: Water in my engine oil. Where could it come from ?

Run a compression test to see if the head gasket is compromised.
abachman3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.